Armorsmith Archive

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Okram2k wrote:

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Vastar wrote:
It's not going to happen, Zion. So, speaking hypothetically, it sounds great! Heck yes, I'd happily wait a month for it.

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ask the smugglers what it's like to wait a month or two for their revamp, or rangers, or squad leaders...

it's now or never folks.

Message Edited by Okram2k on 04-18-2005 09:08 PM

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Exactly.

so you have the 20 points, then alocate them from stat to stat. Almost like a stat mitagation.
am I correct?
then have various degrees of success just to toss us curve balls now and then.
am I still with it?
sounds intrguing

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Capt_Obvious wrote:

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Cianhydle wrote:

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

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Exterminans77 wrote:
Why should we have to wait? Think about it.....

We've been waiting a year and a half for this combat upgrade. Its been in development for at least a year. We were told it wouldn't be rushed and pushed to the live servers until it was ready. Why should we give them another month or so after this goes live? Haven't we (not just us I'm talking the whole community) given them enough time to get this thing straight before it hits live. I understood all along it would need some minor tweaking after it went live for bugs and small balance issues, but waiting for them to fix armor crafting is asking too much. Fix it now. Delay the Combat Upgrade if thats what it takes. God knows letting us test that thing for a month or two longer isn't going to hurt it any.

And it won't hurt their subscriber base either. Pushing the CU in its current state will do more to hurt it than delaying it and actually fixing the thing.

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The reason we have to wait, is marketing. Believe me, it would be nice if they had the luxury of waiting, and I am sure the devs would prefer it. But as stated before, marketing trumps all. The thing is, if you want to blame someone, I see few if any people going high enough up on the food chain.

It's not the devs. They are given a date, often unrealistic, and have to make things work by that date. Otherwise, they get into trouble and potentially lose their job. We may see them the most often, but I don't assign them much blame on this.

It's not SOE. This one is going to be a tough one to swallow, I know. But SOE is playing the cards they were dealt, and the deadline didn't come from them either. They are in the precarious position of being the face that takes the heat, especially with the blunders they have made in the past in other games, like EQ for instance.

No, if you really want to see the man behind the Curtain, it is none other than LucasArts itself. That's right, the same company that everyone was appealing to, to correct SOE, is the real reason behind the whole mess. They set this deadline. They are pushing SOE to get this thing done. And they can casually sit back, and let SOE take the fall for any mishaps made. They were the reason this game got released early in the first place.

All one has to do is look back to just about after the first Jedi Knight game, and see how LucasArts has been mismanaged, fired or lost almost all their good people, and began taking hits for crap games that either were in developmental hell for the longest time or pushed out way too early and were buggy, and were HORRIBLY rated by anyone who played them.

So now they are the publisher behind the scenes, still putting out impossible deadlines, and this time, letting others take the fall.

THAT is who people should really be looking at. And it is because of LucasArts, that the CURB will not be delayed. Pester SOE all you want about it - it isn't their call to make.

So, dealing with the reality of the situation, we are going to have to wait for changes until after the CURB, just like the devs predicted at the beginning. Yeah, it sucks. But sometimes you got to go through the suck parts to get to the good stuff, and have to step back to see the big picture. The Devs aren't our enemies on this. Not saying they are perfect, or their ideas are always right, but they would listen to us more if they didn't have a deadline looming over their heads. No, LucasArts is the real enemy, carefully disguised and insulated, and more than willing to let others get the blame for their mishaps. When the crap started rolling down hill, they were the ones who took the poop.

As such, I try to always remember that, and remember that if I can wait it out, I know eventually things will get righted, at least with the current group of developers. It is just going to take time, and that, I believe is what is so hard for the player base to swallow.

Just remember to take it out on LucasArts. Let them know they can't hide the truth anymore.

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This post is garbage.

LucasArts hasn't been promising a CU for a year and a half. This is like blaming the professor for the student who knows all semester they have to write a paper and waits till the last day. I think the solid majority of the players know who is responible for the delays.

I'm glad LucasArts is getting involved and calling some shots; SOE hasn't done a very good job.

Renea,

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Whether you want to admit it or not Zion DOES have a point on this. Just because its been a yr and a half does NOT mean the devs havent been working hard on getting this ready. Personally I think that they were planning on at least another few months of testing but then late last year they were given this deadline and everyone on the dev team tripped out. Took what they had to work with and rushed as fast as they could to meet the deadline. Same is true about the origional launch date, they were'nt ready and got rushed by LA then too! Why shouldn't the same thing be true now?

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It explains the bugs and issues. and the sloppiness. I kinda had them pegged for rushin a deadline, but didn't think what everyone is sudjesting.

My assuming (god I loth this word) would be after CU, and After, the expansion, then changes could happen.
would be a good possiblity.

after all SOE would or should be paying some royalties.

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

This is just an idea I had today (well, not really, but it only took solid form today), and I was wondering if the AS community would be in favor of this, even if it meant we had to wait until the next publish for it:

For Armorsmith, points get doubled from 10 to 20 at master.

Then, each line of resists are broken down into individual stats:

Kinetic

Energy

Acid

Electricity

Cold

Heat

From there, each layer added to the armor increases that stat by a point, but decreases the opposing stat by a box.

Example:

Someone puts in 2 Energy layers into a segment. The result is that Energy is filled 2 more boxes, but in kinetic, there are 2 less boxes to be experimented on. Therefore, there is some sort of semblance of balance with armor, and it makes each piece unique.

The final piece would be that NS layers would give the bonus of adding points to everythingwithout subtracting empty boxes, leaving those to be experimented on. This way, even the most minor of NS layers would still be desireable.

Thoughts?

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Very nice idea. If this was implemented, yes I would definitely stick it out. My biggest gripe is the clone armors. No diversity. This would add back to the diversity nicely.

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Capt_Obvious wrote:

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Kelloch wrote:

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Capt_Obvious wrote:

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Kelloch wrote:

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Capt_Obvious wrote:

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Cianhydle wrote:

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

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True but who knows how many NDAs there are out there, plus admitting that they screwed up does not do any good to stock portfolio that they have over there.

Just playing the devil's advocate here, thats all

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Nah...I understand. But talking about issues and saying they won't be fixed right away isn't necessarily admitting they screwed up. Only that there are more ways to improve it. In fact, you could spin it as we are listening to our customers and striving to make changes that appeal to them.

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They're obviously notpolititions then or else this problem would already be solved lol Of course maybe they are and they're just not allowed to even acknowledge Area 51's existence too So many possibilities you see

*edit* getting back on subject, what can WE do about getting our experimentation back, and Zion do you honestly think we'll only have to wait a month for this? I mean smugglers got they're revamp right away too right.... Right?!? Oh yeah I forgot about that they're still waiting

Message Edited by Capt_Obvious on 04-18-2005 02:49 PM

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Given the priority, we would probably end up pushing back the poor smugglers even more, is my guess. I would say at least a month, but the coding for this could be done in a hurry within a month, and if time is needed to be taken, then probably 3 months max. It would be a semi-simple change - the hard work would be coding it.

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

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Exterminans77 wrote:
Why should we have to wait? Think about it.....

We've been waiting a year and a half for this combat upgrade. Its been in development for at least a year. We were told it wouldn't be rushed and pushed to the live servers until it was ready. Why should we give them another month or so after this goes live? Haven't we (not just us I'm talking the whole community) given them enough time to get this thing straight before it hits live. I understood all along it would need some minor tweaking after it went live for bugs and small balance issues, but waiting for them to fix armor crafting is asking too much. Fix it now. Delay the Combat Upgrade if thats what it takes. God knows letting us test that thing for a month or two longer isn't going to hurt it any.

And it won't hurt their subscriber base either. Pushing the CU in its current state will do more to hurt it than delaying it and actually fixing the thing.

---

The reason we have to wait, is marketing. Believe me, it would be nice if they had the luxury of waiting, and I am sure the devs would prefer it. But as stated before, marketing trumps all. The thing is, if you want to blame someone, I see few if any people going high enough up on the food chain.

It's not the devs. They are given a date, often unrealistic, and have to make things work by that date. Otherwise, they get into trouble and potentially lose their job. We may see them the most often, but I don't assign them much blame on this.

It's not SOE. This one is going to be a tough one to swallow, I know. But SOE is playing the cards they were dealt, and the deadline didn't come from them either. They are in the precarious position of being the face that takes the heat, especially with the blunders they have made in the past in other games, like EQ for instance.

No, if you really want to see the man behind the Curtain, it is none other than LucasArts itself. That's right, the same company that everyone was appealing to, to correct SOE, is the real reason behind the whole mess. They set this deadline. They are pushing SOE to get this thing done. And they can casually sit back, and let SOE take the fall for any mishaps made. They were the reason this game got released early in the first place.

All one has to do is look back to just about after the first Jedi Knight game, and see how LucasArts has been mismanaged, fired or lost almost all their good people, and began taking hits for crap games that either were in developmental hell for the longest time or pushed out way too early and were buggy, and were HORRIBLY rated by anyone who played them.

So now they are the publisher behind the scenes, still putting out impossible deadlines, and this time, letting others take the fall.

THAT is who people should really be looking at. And it is because of LucasArts, that the CURB will not be delayed. Pester SOE all you want about it - it isn't their call to make.

So, dealing with the reality of the situation, we are going to have to wait for changes until after the CURB, just like the devs predicted at the beginning. Yeah, it sucks. But sometimes you got to go through the suck parts to get to the good stuff, and have to step back to see the big picture. The Devs aren't our enemies on this. Not saying they are perfect, or their ideas are always right, but they would listen to us more if they didn't have a deadline looming over their heads. No, LucasArts is the real enemy, carefully disguised and insulated, and more than willing to let others get the blame for their mishaps. When the crap started rolling down hill, they were the ones who took the poop.

As such, I try to always remember that, and remember that if I can wait it out, I know eventually things will get righted, at least with the current group of developers. It is just going to take time, and that, I believe is what is so hard for the player base to swallow.

Just remember to take it out on LucasArts. Let them know they can't hide the truth anymore.

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Fair enough, if you want to throw LucasArts into the fire with SOE and the devs then by all means do so. I have no problem blaming all three because they're all responsible.

I understand deadlines, I understand you have to sometimes wait to see the bigger picture and for everything to fall into place. That is all reasonable within the first YEAR of release. We're almost at the end of year 2 and the end of BETA is nowhere in sight. Some of us are tired of waiting, are tired of broken promises, are tired of the lack of content for elder players. PVP is all fine and dandy but besides that what does an elder player have to look forward too? It's one of the reasons I became a crafter, it was challenging and it worked. It was one of the few areas of the game that I felt was designed really well and didn't need a whole lot of tweaking. So what did they do? Break it!

This isn't a flame, I think all of us at this point have the right to complain, especially those of us who have been here since launch. And calling it strictly a combat upgrade is insulting, the crafting professions have been as effected by this as the combat, and in some cases more so. We should be allowed to respec with the rest of them. I think one of the reasons they won't give us the respec is they know a lot of us would drop Armorsmith. If they want to see what the majority thinks of the changes give us all the respec and watch the data pour in as tons of Armorsmiths drop it. They won't do that. That would show confidence in their system.

It almost feels like that their idea of a game upgrade is to break everything that works so it doesn't have an advantage over the professions that don't. If everything is broke you achieve balance and its lot easier than fixing everything.

I think a lot of us Veteran Players are reaching our limits and our patience is wearing thin. For many of us the Combat Upgrade would be make or break. Well it seems they got the break part down.

I love Star Wars and I always saw a lot of great potential in this game. There is a lot about the game I loved but a lot of the stuff I loved is being destroyed by this Upgrade and its being replaced with stuff I hate. I played EQ2 for two months, I hated it. And it looks like they're trying to turn this into EQ. If I wanted to play EQ2 I would of kept my account.

I guess this game is finally becoming what everyone said it would be before it launched.......Everquest in Space.

Minus the content.

Message Edited by Exterminans77 on 04-18-2005 12:41 PM

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

This is just an idea I had today (well, not really, but it only took solid form today), and I was wondering if the AS community would be in favor of this, even if it meant we had to wait until the next publish for it:

For Armorsmith, points get doubled from 10 to 20 at master.

Then, each line of resists are broken down into individual stats:

Kinetic

Energy

Acid

Electricity

Cold

Heat

From there, each layer added to the armor increases that stat by a point, but decreases the opposing stat by a box.

Example:

Someone puts in 2 Energy layers into a segment. The result is that Energy is filled 2 more boxes, but in kinetic, there are 2 less boxes to be experimented on. Therefore, there is some sort of semblance of balance with armor, and it makes each piece unique.

The final piece would be that NS layers would give the bonus of adding points to everythingwithout subtracting empty boxes, leaving those to be experimented on. This way, even the most minor of NS layers would still be desireable.

Thoughts?

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Actually, I feel this is a horrible Idea.

If it went to that, even with 20 points +2 from tapes....

you could not even fill two lines.

The result would be completely specialty armor that would be useful only against certain types of damage.

The net effect to the customer is the need to carry half a dozen SUITS of armor. And no real answer for large multi damage engagements.

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johnautry613 wrote:

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

This is just an idea I had today (well, not really, but it only took solid form today), and I was wondering if the AS community would be in favor of this, even if it meant we had to wait until the next publish for it:

For Armorsmith, points get doubled from 10 to 20 at master.

Then, each line of resists are broken down into individual stats:

Kinetic

Energy

Acid

Electricity

Cold

Heat

From there, each layer added to the armor increases that stat by a point, but decreases the opposing stat by a box.

Example:

Someone puts in 2 Energy layers into a segment. The result is that Energy is filled 2 more boxes, but in kinetic, there are 2 less boxes to be experimented on. Therefore, there is some sort of semblance of balance with armor, and it makes each piece unique.

The final piece would be that NS layers would give the bonus of adding points to everythingwithout subtracting empty boxes, leaving those to be experimented on. This way, even the most minor of NS layers would still be desireable.

Thoughts?

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Actually, I feel this is a horrible Idea.

If it went to that, even with 20 points +2 from tapes....

you could not even fill two lines.

The result would be completely specialty armor that would be useful only against certain types of damage.

The net effect to the customer is the need to carry half a dozen SUITS of armor. And no real answer for large multi damage engagements.

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Get used to that - that is the goal of the CURB - everything is specialty armor. Sorry, but totally maxed out armor is a thing of the past, and that was stated long before the CURB even began coding.