Armorsmith Archive
Thread: An apology of sorts to the AS Community, and some things to clear up on my perception of things.
Capt_Obvious
Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:54 am
#14
ZionHalcyon wrote:
rahbert wrote:
I'm just saying that your sincere apology is watered down by posting your opinions with it. When people see opinions, their natural reaction is to agree or disagree. Then your apology becomes another debate, which leads to possible flaming.
Anyway....
True, I guess. The difference here though is, I have said what I feel I need to here. As such, when people start, should they start, from this point out I am going to stay completely out of the post to not further fan the flames or instigate anything. Everything I needed to get off my chest, I have done so.
I think I will edit the title too, just so people know what to expect, clicking on it.
Even a watered down and soggy humble pie tastes the same... thanks for putting your pride on the shelf so we can get back to work and stop the madness. Personally I hope and pray we will all get our helping of pie if the CURB actually is the best thing since sliced bread..... but until then I still remain VERY skeptical
CitizenErased
Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:22 am
#15
a good apology IMO is more of an "im sorry" rather than an "im sorry, BUT..." to be truely humble is to apologize and leave it at that, instead of stating your views afterwards. it kind of sours the whole thing.
Cafa
Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:25 am
#16
Timbo1970 wrote:
QFE!!
ZionHalcyon wrote:
- Blah
- blah
- blah
- blah, blah, blah, , I have to admit, I am not what this community needs right now in a corrospondant, blah, blah, blah, blah...
- blah
- Message Edited by ZionHalcyon on 04-18-2005 10:07 AM
Tavian for the WIN!
Timbo1970
Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:28 am
#17
Cafa wrote:
Timbo1970 wrote:
QFE!!
ZionHalcyon wrote:
- Blah
- blah
- blah
- blah, blah, blah, , I have to admit, I am not what this community needs right now in a corrospondant, blah, blah, blah, blah...
- blah
- Message Edited by ZionHalcyon on 04-18-2005 10:07 AM
Tavian for the WIN!
Tavian???
Luaren
Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:47 am
#18
Timbo1970 wrote:
Cafa wrote:
Timbo1970 wrote:
QFE!!
ZionHalcyon wrote:
- Blah
- blah
- blah
- blah, blah, blah, , I have to admit, I am not what this community needs right now in a corrospondant, blah, blah, blah, blah...
- blah
- Message Edited by ZionHalcyon on 04-18-2005 10:07 AM
Tavian for the WIN!
Tavian???
Tavian would make an EXCELLENT AS correspondent.
Kelloch
Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:01 am
#19
Thula wrote:Give the man a break.Come on, we got a sort of apology and I guess that is the best we can get from Zion, which is good enough for meAnother flamefest is the last thing we need, lets try to salvage this wreckage of a profession with the little time we have left instead (...dramatic music...)Just to comment on a couple of his points:Resources:Since this is one of the few things we can realistically hope to change during testing I suggest this becomes our prime focus. I do not mind new resource requirements at all, however I do mind that armor takes 3x as much to make compared to the current system. Scale it down, I see no rationale for keeping these high requirements (or to be more precise: the arguments I have heard have serious flaws).Combat Level System:I am in the process of testing this myself, and although armor works the effect seems to be neglible compared to the mitigators. Basically you can grind all the way without any need for armor. I am sure you are all aware that grinders are our prime source of income. You do not have much choice when it comes to what to grind on as you will die pretty quickly if you try on something a few levels higher than you. Still in testing though, they seem to be tweaking the numbers.I still believe the Level system, or rather Level Damage Multipliers, has no place in SWG. I recall a while ago there was a patch that prevented certain NPC's to one-hit incap you (NS Elders). They made a point out of getting that out of the game. With the CURB, one hit incaps is going to be the order of the day. With the exception of the really high end mobs, no NPC or critter should be able to one-hit incap an armored player. Fine, you could loose Health down to a critical level, but there should always be the possibility for escape.
Agree...the resource issue and the leveling aspect are my biggest concerns for now. If we don't fix those, who cares how many experimentation choices we have? We won't be crafting that much armor anyway.
Vastar
Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:22 pm
#20
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Corrospondant Position - ... I have to admit, I am not what this community needs right now in a corrospondant, and I mean that on a professional level, not a personal one. I am too opinionated right now on the CURB, and I run contrary to most of you, and as such, I think I would not serve this community well. That doesn't mean the next corro should be a yes-man to the community, nor to the devs for that matter. But it should be someone more welcoming, and someone who can mediate, and bridge the divide between players and devs. I would be more of a "do things, and then see how you like them" guy in this community, and that would not be a good thing overall. I realize this, which is why I am not going to pursue the Corrospondant postion any further. That does not mean I will step down if it is offered to me, however.
I guess I just don't know what a person can say to something like that.
linusboarder
Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:43 pm
#21
Zion
I, for one, accept your apology. Your original posts were insightful, intelligent, and needed to be said. Even if they were wrong it's good to have intelligent debate to force people to defend their points, it helps everyone involved. In saying this your original post(s) were much too aggressive in my opinion.
Now you have come across and said "I apologize for my aggresiveness and rashness, with my emotions some of my point may have been lost. Here is the points i was trying to make..." I don't find that a "non-apology apology" at all. You have apologized for the way you presented your opinions, not your opinions themselves and I respect that.
People can argue that Zion's apology would have been more effective had he broken his post into two seperate threads, but i think he is making a strong point. He still strongly believe in what he has said, he is sorry for the way he has said it.
Again Zion From this AS /apologyaccepted
I, for one, accept your apology. Your original posts were insightful, intelligent, and needed to be said. Even if they were wrong it's good to have intelligent debate to force people to defend their points, it helps everyone involved. In saying this your original post(s) were much too aggressive in my opinion.
Now you have come across and said "I apologize for my aggresiveness and rashness, with my emotions some of my point may have been lost. Here is the points i was trying to make..." I don't find that a "non-apology apology" at all. You have apologized for the way you presented your opinions, not your opinions themselves and I respect that.
People can argue that Zion's apology would have been more effective had he broken his post into two seperate threads, but i think he is making a strong point. He still strongly believe in what he has said, he is sorry for the way he has said it.
Again Zion From this AS /apologyaccepted
Circe' Pojia
Tarwin-Cor
Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:01 pm
#22
Quote:
Combat Level System:
I am in the process of testing this myself, and although armor works the effect seems to be neglible compared to the mitigators. Basically you can grind all the way without any need for armor. I am sure you are all aware that grinders are our prime source of income. You do not have much choice when it comes to what to grind on as you will die pretty quickly if you try on something a few levels higher than you. Still in testing though, they seem to be tweaking the numbers.
My response...
I have an interesting assumption... Maybe the devs thought of this and maybe they did not... What I see from the AS profession Post-CU is this... We no longer make just Comp Suits/Ubese Suits in bulk for people grinding now... Instead, we make armor customized to finished template characters... When players finish their template and they are ready to tackle the DWB or the Geo caves with their guildmates, they strap on their customized armor and so at it...
Here is my reasoning...
1. People in combat have noticed (and devs/corr. have agreed) that when in a group; wearing armor actually helps when fighting harder mobs....
2.We all agree that grinding characters will not really need armor because it does not really help them...
3. Resource requirements for armor makes it less fessible to mass produce, and factory time increases mean longer wait time...
4. Addition of components that make the armor look different...
5.Making different professions wear different armor...
Ok... Now, I agree that the challange is not really there anymore in terms of crafting... But like some have pointed out... The CU is supposed to focus on combat, and a crafting upgrade will follow... So, we just might be our complexitiy back...
The resource requirements are higher and more elaborate... Which means people will make less armor, but sell it for more...
On one hand I see this is not good, because I will sell less suits of armor... Yet, I will sell suits for more money... And, no, beginning players will not be able to afford armor post-CU... But like reported, it really doesn't help them anyway... The people that benefit are finished template users, who typically have money to spend...
I think that it is not as drastic as some make it out to be... Granted, I am unhappy with a lot of things... But, I think we need to sit back and absorb some of the information that we are getting...
The point of the CU is to make people rely more on each other... and want to connect the community as a whole... how cool is it currently to make someone a set of RIS armor and have them try it on when you are done... They have picked their colors, and spent a long time waiting for RIS... And BAMMM you finish making it... They run around showing all their friends... That is why I am an AS... because of that one-on-one interactions that I get on special orders...
Armorsmith post-CU, as I am starting to see it, it more about this... Some guy finishes his template and comes to you... an AS... to make him a custom set of armor... and you do so... he is extremely happy, and runs around and shows his friends... that is a cool thing...
Plus, I see armorsmiths making the same person multiple suits to match what they are fighting... you know... DWB has XXXX types of attacks so I need armor to resist XXXX... but in a couple weeks, my guild is going to the Geo caves, and they use XXXX so I need XXXX armor... That is a cool thing to... It makes people think about what type of armor they will need before going out...
Granted, I have my own complaints... But, I think that this will be VERY cool, once we get into it... (and hope they fix a couple things)... I, for one, am not giving up... I am actually a little happy that I get to make more custom suits... this will be very cool... =)
Just my thoughts...
Tarwin / Girgi on Corbantis
ZionHalcyon
Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:58 pm
#23
linusboarder wrote:
Zion
I, for one, accept your apology. Your original posts were insightful, intelligent, and needed to be said. Even if they were wrong it's good to have intelligent debate to force people to defend their points, it helps everyone involved. In saying this your original post(s) were much too aggressive in my opinion.
Now you have come across and said "I apologize for my aggresiveness and rashness, with my emotions some of my point may have been lost. Here is the points i was trying to make..." I don't find that a "non-apology apology" at all. You have apologized for the way you presented your opinions, not your opinions themselves and I respect that.
People can argue that Zion's apology would have been more effective had he broken his post into two seperate threads, but i think he is making a strong point. He still strongly believe in what he has said, he is sorry for the way he has said it.
Again Zion From this AS /apologyaccepted
Thank you - I am glad you got the jist of what I was trying to do here. Thanks for putting it a little clearer than I think I did. I tend to ramble sometimes.
AtonuTragona
Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:13 pm
#24
You almost had me with the first couple of lines.
This is players vs. the devs, plain and simple. I've had enough of this "rules" crap. When has SOE become the model of keeping their word. There are now only three types of people in SWG; Imperial Scum, Rebel scum, and SOE dev scum. Start picking a side.
ZionHalcyon
Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:21 pm
#25
AtonuTragona wrote:
You almost had me with the first couple of lines.
This is players vs. the devs, plain and simple. I've had enough of this "rules" crap. When has SOE become the model of keeping their word. There are now only three types of people in SWG; Imperial Scum, Rebel scum, and SOE dev scum. Start picking a side.
Sorry, but I don't think that your suggestion is the most rational course to follow.