Armorsmith Archive
Thread: What's up with the INCREASED hide requirements?!?!?!?
bluejanus
Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:40 pm
#14
Is that lack of a health bonus confirmed for rangers? Most of what I heard was based on rangers being excluded from anoffhandstatement about health bonuses in an armor post. Rangers went ballistic anyways.
Creaturetaimer wrote:
Ryche_Mykola wrote:
More Hide?!?!?!
I guess this means that I''ll be making Mo money, Mo money, Mo money!!!! Yes, armor will be more expensive even now.
If that is the case just imagine how much of a pit your going to put yourself in just to get those resources. ill be honest how many rangers/scouts are going to be willing to hunt post CU? Or even be rangers/scouts afterwards? I will be one of the few left on Kett.
Message Edited by Creaturetaimer on 04-08-2005 06:37 PM
Calculus_Entropy
Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:02 am
#15
Remember, most meds are going away, so hunters won't be selling everything they harvest to Docs (BEs) anymore. We (Rangers) were actaully worried about where our harvests were going to go (i.e. how we would make money). I guess we know now 
.
.
UmmonPrime
Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:02 am
#16
If quality isn't going to matter after the CU, I may just putin a large order for ea hide type. Get it preCU or you will have to prob pay double the amount.
JBMat
Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:03 am
#17
And here's a kick right in the nutz.
Rangers, who can harvest vast quantities in short amounts of time, are being ignored. At best they will have 1500 health, as none of the Scout line counts towards health. Yeah, I am taking on large creatures with no freaking health. DOn't plan on seeing many Rangers around, or Scouts for that matter, as they too get shafted in the health department.
Pretty funny - you guys need more hides and the ones who can get it are being gimped.
I would pitch a screaming fit about this to the Devs if I were y'all.
JB
_Monroe_
Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:07 am
#18
JBMat wrote:
And here's a kick right in the nutz.
Rangers, who can harvest vast quantities in short amounts of time, are being ignored. At best they will have 1500 health, as none of the Scout line counts towards health. Yeah, I am taking on large creatures with no freaking health. DOn't plan on seeing many Rangers around, or Scouts for that matter, as they too get shafted in the health department.
Pretty funny - you guys need more hides and the ones who can get it are being gimped.
I would pitch a screaming fit about this to the Devs if I were y'all.
JB
I hope you guys are too.
UmmonPrime
Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:08 am
#19
We're doing our best right now
JBMat wrote:
And here's a kick right in the nutz.
Rangers, who can harvest vast quantities in short amounts of time, are being ignored. At best they will have 1500 health, as none of the Scout line counts towards health. Yeah, I am taking on large creatures with no freaking health. DOn't plan on seeing many Rangers around, or Scouts for that matter, as they too get shafted in the health department.
Pretty funny - you guys need more hides and the ones who can get it are being gimped.
I would pitch a screaming fit about this to the Devs if I were y'all.
JB
Toe-KneeG
Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:08 am
#20
Ryche_Mykola wrote:
More Hide?!?!?!
I guess this means that I''ll be making Mo money, Mo money, Mo money!!!! Yes, armor will be more expensive even now.
/nods
mmmmmhmmmmm indeed it will be.
Vorpaks
Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:21 am
#21
AriesBH wrote:
A lot of the threads here talk about the enormous quantities of hide that will be required to craft decent armor (because, let's face it, once people figure out what is the best, no one will want anything else - guess that is why they've profession certified different armors I suppose) which will therefore put up armor prices. Now stop me if I'm wrong, but I read that Ranger ain't gonna be so hot after the CU and that people reckon that Rangers will drop to get another proff...
...if that happens, you'll end up with even fewer Rangers and since they will be needed to harvest enough resources (their harvest bonuses being greater than Scouts) to craft armor then either every AS will have Ranger alts or Rangers will start to charge silly amounts for the hide...
*peeks in the Armorsmith forum*
As long as Ranger makes money there will be people playing the profession. The difference will be that the only people playing Ranger will be the people who are doing it to make money.
This is good and bad for you. Good because there will be people harvesting for you and they will be business-minded people interested in getting you what you need. Bad because they will be doing it almost soley to get money which means they will have high expectations of what they should be paid for their time and will likely focus their activities on the good spawns and high prices. Lower level/poorer armorsmiths will have difficulties paying the amounts expected (no doubt similar to how it is even today) and will frequently be outbid by more established smiths.
The best way to go, in my opinion, is to make friends or join a guild with dedicated hunters who will give, barter, or sell you the hides you need for a decent price. That way you do not have to enter the bloody bidding market. Whenever I hunt I give my resources to my guild artisans for free. In return I have pretty much whatever I want - meds, armor, food, etc. It is a good deal if you can get it going.
Cryos_Merovingian
Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:25 am
#22
Well the rangers are throwing as best a fit as we know how, but it's important that our customers (the crafters - YOU) are aware of how we are affected and join our plight. Post-CU, Ranger is going to be the ONLY elite profession that requires the Mastery of a starter profession. This puts us in a position with the biggest skill point investment, NONE of which counts towards the 3k health cap. They've said we're getting a "revamp", but they've been saying that for TOO long. Post-CU, I forsee many rangers dropping their Ranger sp for something more practical.
Step 1 - ranger needs to be included in the 3k health cap
Step 2 - we need a revamp NOW... not in 6 months, not in 3 months.. NOW. If they don't start the ball rolling on this, there's going to be 3 rangers left in each galaxy and they'll only be rangers because they like the RP aspect of it and therefore don't like to harvest.
Please, let the devs know how YOU will be affected by rangers being slighted by the CU. I do love my prof, but I hate getting kicked in the nuts.
Step 1 - ranger needs to be included in the 3k health cap
Step 2 - we need a revamp NOW... not in 6 months, not in 3 months.. NOW. If they don't start the ball rolling on this, there's going to be 3 rangers left in each galaxy and they'll only be rangers because they like the RP aspect of it and therefore don't like to harvest.
Please, let the devs know how YOU will be affected by rangers being slighted by the CU. I do love my prof, but I hate getting kicked in the nuts.
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:39 am
#23
Ok, first I will use red text as my response to clear out a few things!
AriesBH wrote:
The biggest problem with hide I suppose is that you would have to work at collecting it rather than simply putting down a harvester and leaving it for 5 days.
So, considering that a lot of AS will not have a combat profession and scout/ranger profession alongside their armorsmith proff (unless they have an alt ofcourse) then either you pay a ranger to harvest or you buy it from a vendor.
Okay, not much change from before then, right? Well, I'm not so sure...
A lot of the threads here talk about the enormous quantities of hide that will be required to craft decent armor (because, let's face it, once people figure out what is the best, no one will want anything else - guess that is why they've profession certified different armors I suppose) which will therefore put up armor prices. Now stop me if I'm wrong, but I read that Ranger ain't gonna be so hot after the CU and that people reckon that Rangers will drop to get another proff...
First, changing it like this makes it more challenging and FUN for an AS. Instead of making ALL the same armor (maybe a bit different colors) you now CAN choose to make only CERTAIN armors. Or do all... Your choice. For all other players it can be a relief to be able to choose something esle then just COMPO because you can't/will not/want not to wear it.
Ranger may not be hot after CU anymore. Guess why? If you read correctly it's because of a number of things combined. The new CU makes it much harder to keep Master Ranger and 1 Elite Combat Profession. The increased sp needed leaves a MR with ONLY 14sp. Where can those be used? Not a singlenovice profession. FS, sure, but you need 16sp to UNLOCK jedi.... So not much help there either. So basically with the new CU Ranger is able to do LESS and get punished as well.
...if that happens, you'll end up with even fewer Rangers and since they will be needed to harvest enough resources (their harvest bonuses being greater than Scouts) to craft armor then either every AS will have Ranger alts or Rangers will start to charge silly amounts for the hide...
Again... you take things out of perspective. If we are to charge ridiciouls/silly prices for the hide it's because of the following:
* how are we supposed to KILL creatures if we are getting gimped (as it seems) effectively? After all we need to KILL them to be able to harvest them
* if all (double) Elite Profs take a bit of scouting, they can get amounts too. They can get as much as we can because they can KILL faster dueto more defense/offensive skills (remember: traps do NOT work agains NPC, PC pets, PCs) the a MR/MEliteCombat combi.
* some of the itesm rangers might need are ALSO ridicilously priced.
which ofcourse meanswe'll start charging sillier amounts for the armor!
As I said... I'd rather work with an AS to supply him reasonable priced hide as long as (s)he keeps the prices normal to. I mean I've seen ubese armor ranging from 10k to 50k a piece.... 50k is just an outrage.
Now the real question is this: who'll be able to afford this armor exactly? Not sure about everyone else but at the moment the economy of SWG feels rather stagnant - since solo group payouts get nerfed, they aren't worth the money unless the loot is good. Un-grouped even master proffs get 8k max on most planets so where do people make money from? Yep - LOOT
So? Ask a question again? Why is Loot so high priced? Becuase only certain professions are able to get it to dominate the market. I hope that will be changing. I mean as a single MRanger/MCH I have no intention to get pearls from a Krayt because I won't be able to. If I'd group with some people, those in melee would be able to get the loot first, unless a lottery model is forced (which is not the case).
And who buys the loot? Other players - so unless I'm mistaken and I just haven't noticed everybody grinding through 300 Dire Cat lairs a day, the majority of money being used in SWG is player money? Not much is being created through mission payouts.
If I, as a Ranger want to decorate my house with a blue rug, and need to pay 150k for a single adhesive, yeah, then I'm forced to ask 50cpu or more for hide just to be able to buy that piece of adhesive.
My point, as you can read on both Ranger and Scout forum as well, is that the economic inbalance is kept like it is because the crafters and looters are not lowering prices either. So why should we (as the bottom of the supply line) do the same?
Let's do a bit of reverse calculation.
A doc buff gives him 15k for few minutes work. Assume for simplicity that 10k (which is a lot) are production costs (schematic, factory whatever, resources). Yes RESOURCES are included in that 5k. If you need 50 units ofavian meat for a buff and paying 100cpu for that meat it will cost you 5000k on resources (since I'm not a doc, I cannot tell the real numbers). Now for a schematic to be usefull (1000 runs) someone has to get 1000*50 = 50000 units (50k).
Now consider the work of a ranger. Let's assume the doc needs HIGH quality too, like the realgood avian meat that was on Rori/Farstar a few shifts ago...
1. Find the creatures. No, the creatures giving that meat are NOT listed on terminal missions. Vir vurs and *forgot their names*, let's name them X
2. Ranger has to find (track) for Vir vurs/X: takes time. Needs to get there: takes time. Kill the critters and harvest them: takes litte time.
3. Vir vurs give (with using Vegash=costs for Ranger) about 30-40 units of meat per corpse. The X give about 20-30. Per spawn approx 5-10 animals so you get about 100-400 units of meat.
4. Step 2 and 3 may vary in time for 5 minutes to 30 minutes, where the most time is in LOCATING a spawn.
5. Repeat step 2 and 3 until you have a decent amount of meat gathered.
Must I do the calculations? Assume for simplicity you will find a spawn every 5 minuts , all vir vurs all giving in total 500 units of meat (note: i used the most preferable options). This would need to be 50000/500 = 1000 spawns. This is 5000 minutes of REAL TIME playing! A heck of a lot more time then just making a schematic for the damn buff, and sitting outside a starport yelling you buff.
Some people always tend to forget that the Scout/Ranger actually has to GO some places to do their work.
Look at the costs:
* weapon use (condition)
* camo use (to move around freely amongst the more vicious critters): takes resources, time to make
* traps (collecting resources to make them)
* healing
* travelling to the places where to get them (planets, cities)
In fact, Ranger/Scout *IS* a laborer. To be honest, I don't see a Doc being a laborer, while sitting outside a starport yelling they can buff....
So now ask yourself the question again... Why should Scout/Ranger NOT ask a decent credit for the work they have to do to keep ALL THE REST OF SWG in their resp. armor, clothing, buffs, food whatever?
Forgot something so added;
Also take the following into account: even if a doc only needs 100 runs of a schematic, he needs 600 runs for a full buff (if possible with the same meat). Then he can make 15000 * 100 = 15 million just for sitting outside and yelling.
The Ranger if asking a price of 100cpu = 50000 * 100 = 5M... A profit of 10M for a doc (and way faster too)
Message Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 04-08-2005 09:45 PM
Keuller
Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:59 am
#24
What can I say, everyone's getting screwed. You'd think SOE sent their programmers to intern at an insurance company or something with the expert assrapings they're delivering to many professions.
AriesBH
Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:56 am
#25
Relax Dariane_Kamutsovy, I was not having a go at Rangers (I have a Ranger alt myself) I was simply stating that prices would go up and was not blaming any one profession for this - which is why I mentioned Rangers and AS both putting up prices.
I can well understand Rangers needing to charge decent amounts for their wares and this is why I mentioned it, because it WILL happen. It isn't the fault of the Rangers nor anyone else, but clearly, as I said it means prices of armor going up drastically.
The problem as I see it is allowing other proffs to make money other than loot harvesting. There ought to be mission payout increases (and forgive me if the CU will include this: I haven't read every thread on the boards!) to provide new money, which will be available to all combat proffs, which in turn means they can pay for crafted items and keep us smithsand Rangers, in business.
I mean, how much would you pay for a full suit of armor now? 300k max? Armor prices have plummetted (Farstar) since I became AS. From what I've read, a full suit is looking like costing twice that. People are in for a shock that's for sure.
Let's hope that I and others who are concerned about this are just being doomsayers and that it'll all work itself out after a few weeks of people getting used to it. It'd be a real shame because I've heard some good things about the CU.
Kilun
Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:30 am
#26
AriesBH wrote:
Now the real question is this: who'll be able to afford this armor exactly? Not sure about everyone else but at the moment the economy of SWG feels rather stagnant - since solo group payouts get nerfed, they aren't worth the money unless the loot is good. Un-grouped even master proffs get 8k max on most planets so where do people make money from? Yep - LOOT
Group with a pet or droid(yes, the little things people used to use for fun), got to Yavin4/Endor any other elite planet and get 12k missions with ease.