Armorsmith Archive

Thread: The thing people have been waiting for: What armors are certified for which professions.

ZionHalcyon
Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:11 am
#235






omadnay wrote:





ZionHalcyon wrote:








omadnay wrote:
Don't try and tell us that these restrictions are necessary for a mmorpg to work, and don't try and tell us that all mmorpg must be the same.


Not for any, for THIS MMORPG to work, AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY INTENDED. Not all MMORPG's have to be the same, but seriously, you expect certain things when you see MMORPG, so for people to claim ignorance is pure stupidity on their part.

Many of us have been playing SWG since the beginning (As have you, based on your forum registration) and it could have continued to exist in it's unique form.


Yes, and it could have CONTINUED TO LOSE SUBSCRIBERS in it's unique form. SO many people left already because the damn game is unbalanced, and many are starting to be interested again because of the CU. That's why I don't care about players who want to keep the system - they want it for the exploits, and if they leave, they will be dwarfed by the people returning.

SWG was different and perhaps that is why so many of us have continued to play, despite it's enormous imbalances (that have been scheduled to be fixed for a long while).


And it will continue to be different, in that it will become one of the most tactical RPG's on the market. The reason most of us have stuck around is because either we love SW too much to give it up (me), or because we enjoy the exploits and the ability to take advantage of the system (I am guessing you).


Reducing Buffs to a minimal enhancement...
Lowering the resistances of armor (And balancing each set for variety)...

Those two changes could have made the original and unique SWG system work much better.


Believe me, on that, I am with you. That would have balanced the game somewhat. But there still would have been solo groups, the game still would have been about spamming the best special, etc. From the very beginning, SWG was MEANT to be a tactical RPG. What you brought up would have added some balance, but done nothing for tactics. I remember when the game first started, before buffs and when tactics mattered - it was a HELL of a lot more fun than it is now. And with the CURB, it is going to return to that, and I can't wait.

If those didn't solve some of the major imbalances on their own...
Lower Melee damage and most melee attack speeds (Most likely Rifleman attacks as well).

Those changes would have made a huge difference for the betterment of this game.
I think you would have found balance and a game where we couldn't solo so many things so easily.


No, then you would have had ranged overpowered. An across the board rebalancing is the most fair way to handle it. Then at least if everyone is crying, then it is EVERYONE that is crying, and no one particular group claiming once again they were picked on.

Claiming that Restrictive Armor Certs are required for balance and for a working mmorpg is incorrect.


Not for any working MMORPG - for THIS one, in order to make the original vision for it come true. This is NOT going to be EQ in space. This is going to be FAR more tactical than EQ. And restrictive armor certs are a way to force players to THINK. Yeah, you love to be gung-ho as a rifleman, spamming mindshot3 at pointblank range while wearing 80% kin armor. Well, guess what? You won't be able to do that anymore. And that is a GOOD thing. I welcome tactics with open arms.

I understand the want to defend what the Devs are trying to accomplish against the waves of negative feedback, but there is truth to be found on both sides of the battle.


This I can agree with. There is some truth, and I can understand concerns, but what pisses me off are the people who act like they know what the CURB will bring, people who compare armor in the old system as if it will be the same in the new system, the constant lack of being able to see the other side, the overwhelming whining because people won't be able to solo a krayt, and their not-so-clever ways they try to hide that that is what they are really complaining about, and so on and so on.

I just hope that the Dev Team is open-minded enough to see the whole picture.


And I just hope you can look in the mirror, and hopefully others can too, to see the whole picture themselves. Because right now, there are a lot of players who only are seeing what they want to see.




May the force be with you.


And also with you.

- Omadda Szool
Kauri















Look, it seems that you and I are on the same page for a good number of things, so I am willing to forgive you for one enormous mistake by yourself...
ZionHalcyon wrote: " The reason most of us have stuck around is because either we love SW too much to give it up (me), or because we enjoy the exploits and the ability to take advantage of the system (I am guessing you)."

You could not be more wrong.
Instead of being insulted by your mistake, you simply end up looking foolish for assuming too much.
I don't mean to return the insult... I do understand the types of players that you refer to.

I don't need to defend myself, but you seem to be someone capable of being respectful and just simply made a mistake
I'm a one account Player, Master Musician, Partial Pistoleer, Partial Creature Handler that likes to adventure without Buffs.
If you still think I'm an exploiter and taking advantage of the game's imbalances, then by all means enjoy your opinion.

Back to our discussion...
It seems like you actually agree with me... as you said, in the old days before we had Buffs, things were more tactical/strategic.
Then how would removing buffs and reducing armor not bring to those more strategic ways once again?
Regardless, I am not against the one health bar system nor against a largely different combat system... I didn't mention it in my post, but I think that removing the whole mind pool weakness is the right thing to do.

What I am against is implimenting a system that places so many more equipment restrictions than what existed before.
You can say that in order for their new system to work, it MUST be that way...
But I am saying that if that system MUST be that way, then come up with a system that doesn not require these armor restrictions.

Honestly I don't think it HAS to be that way, nor that they have to completely overhaul this new system.

The effectiveness of the armor in this system could be based on the Professions and Skills of the Player, but the actual equipping of these armors should not be restricted to certain Professions.

Look, I've stuck with this game mainly because I am such a huge Star Wars Fan, but I realized something over the last month or so...
If SWG's game mechanics hadn't appealed to me as much as they have, then my obsession with Star Wars alone would not have held me to this game quite so much.


- Omadda Szool
Kauri

May the force be with you.




Funny, you say I have made one big mistake, but you fail to succinctly or clearly point it out. You may very well be someone who doesn't fit the pattern. But note, I said most, not all. And just because you do not fit the pattern, it would be arrogance on your part to think that is how others are.


Even so, I gave answers to the questions you pose already, and you just restated your questions. We just aren't going to see eye to eye, and if you can't respond to what I am saying, but can only restate what you have already said, then this discussion is pointless.







Z I O N U H A L C Y O N
J O R R EN U DA RK S T A R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jorren's Spy Kill-o-meter:
334 Rebels |5 Jetpacks | 4 BARC | 3 AT-RT | 2 Desert Skiff | 2 AV-21
and countless speederbikes and land speeders.
I love being a spy.
Thula
Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:22 am
#236

Zion,


to me it was pretty obvious what he was hinting at, let me make it in bold instead of include the entire post:






Look, it seems that you and I are on the same page for a good number of things, so I am willing to forgive you for one enormous mistake by yourself...
ZionHalcyon wrote: " The reason most of us have stuck around is because either we love SW too much to give it up (me), or because we enjoy the exploits and the ability to take advantage of the system (I am guessing you)."





Accusing someone of exploiting is not something you should do lightly, especially since exploiters are the most hated people in the SWG Universe. I am not going to argue the semantics here, but this is how most people will interpret your post, intentional or not it calls for an apology. Unless you can prove otherwise of course...



Thula Moonrider -UNA-
Master Armorsmith - 12 pt - R.I.S. Certified
Merchant - Master Artisan - Master Shipwright (for fun)
Tent #17, Mos Vegas, Tatooine :: UNA City, Corellia (-6560,-2600)
please offer any winnings to one of my vendors
- I Support Uncle Owen and everything he represented
ZionHalcyon
Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:44 am
#237

I sort of see that, but I feel an apology here would also be to dismiss what I am saying; my points still hold true, even if not applied to omadda.


The only thing I can offer is the fact that if you take me at my literal word, you will see I snuck a little caveat in there - I said "I am guessing you", not just "you".


In other words, the dialogue there allows for the fact that he may very well not be an exploiter, but yet also does not weaken the argument I am making. Think of it as a "pre-apology".



Z I O N U H A L C Y O N
J O R R EN U DA RK S T A R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jorren's Spy Kill-o-meter:
334 Rebels |5 Jetpacks | 4 BARC | 3 AT-RT | 2 Desert Skiff | 2 AV-21
and countless speederbikes and land speeders.
I love being a spy.
_Monroe_
Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:51 am
#238






omadnay wrote:

Reducing Buffs to a minimal enhancement...
Lowering the resistances of armor (And balancing each set for variety)...






I've said a long time (as Kiom) that if they just got rid of secondary buffs armor resists would have gone down. We would have had to make low ham armor so people could wear it and so they didn't killthemselves with specials.I still feel that would have accomplished a lot of what they are trying to do now.


As far as the certs, I like them. The only part I don't like so far are the non-sci-fi looking icons and particle eftects.



Monroe - Medic (formerly Kiom)
Xana - Jedi
Tarantella - Structures
Cebak - Entertainer
Page 19 of 19