Armorsmith Archive
Thread: The thing people have been waiting for: What armors are certified for which professions.
UmmonPrime wrote:Ya, there's a problem with this list, only elite professions get to wear armor. You can't wear anything while you grind your way up.Another thing I wanted to comment on: They really stuck us on the comp resources. It's what most of us stockpiled and now they only give us 3 professions that can even wear it. The whole thing is leaving me feeling screwed.....
Um, all you have to make is the core to a armor peice, and then you can add the custom look at the end. So I do not think each suit will require it's own resources. I think all core's will require their own resources and then the custom look might need one or two more, but it will not make a diference to stats.
That is just a guess though... I think it would sense.
riotcontrol wrote:
Ihareo wrote:
riotcontrol wrote:
Ihareo wrote:
And no player bleating that inane nonsence has been able to point out exactly how SWG is becomming EQ2. More and more people just spew that crap out over and over because somone else said it, and no one really knows what it means.
Really kyle, you should know better. Make up your own arguments instead of piggybacking the fad of the moment.
Uhm... ok, so, each profession has been put into a generic-fantasy-MMORPG class box (present in pretty much all generic-fantasy-MMORPGs including EQ2) instead of making sense within the scope of the SW universe, the whole combat interface got a cartoonish and colourful EQ2-like revamp with icons that look like absolutely nothing from any terminals, screens and user interfaces present in the SW movies and games, the combat system is, well, exactly like it is in EQ2, and you still don't see what people are talking about?
Now, define for me how professions are getting put into a 'generic-fantasy-MMORPG class box', 'cause I'm just not seeing it.
Have you even seen the new 'profession diagram' with nukers, mezzers etc? The roles for specific professions have not been designed by answering the 'Hmm, what could a Rifleman do in Star Wars?' question but rather the 'Hmm, what generic MMORPG class role can we give to Rifleman?' question.
Yes I have seen the diagram. And the things you're talking about are basically MMORPG lingo, and we are in fact playing a MMORPG.
Has it occured to you that that chart is just a very generalized idea of where the professions will fit? It is not chaining us up, locking us in a steamer chest, dipping us in cement and throwing us in a steaming tar pit! It is a GENERAL ballpark of where the professions will lie in relation to eachother.
On that note have you even noticed that for the most part that chart reflectrs the profession's roles as they stand now?
Ihareo wrote:
riotcontrol wrote:
Ihareo wrote:
And no player bleating that inane nonsence has been able to point out exactly how SWG is becomming EQ2. More and more people just spew that crap out over and over because somone else said it, and no one really knows what it means.
Really kyle, you should know better. Make up your own arguments instead of piggybacking the fad of the moment.
Uhm... ok, so, each profession has been put into a generic-fantasy-MMORPG class box (present in pretty much all generic-fantasy-MMORPGs including EQ2) instead of making sense within the scope of the SW universe, the whole combat interface got a cartoonish and colourful EQ2-like revamp with icons that look like absolutely nothing from any terminals, screens and user interfaces present in the SW movies and games, the combat system is, well, exactly like it is in EQ2, and you still don't see what people are talking about?
Um. Last I checked EQ2 didn't have swordsman, fencers, TKA, pikeman, Pistoleers, carbineers, rifleman, BHs, Commandos, jedi, any crafting classes, any social classes.
Oh, let's not forget the ability to mix and match classes, the ability to change classes, a player driven economy, the ability to sell things from your own hiome, your own home for that matter.
Does EQ2 have starships? Gambling? A game level within a game? Instancted dungeons (ok SWG is weak on that). The ability to crate a player city? The ability to change your own appearance for yoda's sake?
Hmm. Nice long list.
So now SWG will have in common with EQ2, colorfull icons and a wind up phase for actions.
Well, to begin with, Swordsmen, Fencers, and Pikemen are all very, very non-Star Wars. TKA have their place because of canon, and Jedi ARE Star Wars, though there very existance in-game is non-canonical. EQ2 has crafting professions, and the concept of "social" professions is a joke. Anybody can be social, you don't need a profession to do it.
The reason most people see a change to "EQ2" is based mainly upon the new party dynamic, where only the heavily armored or defensable melee are "Tanks" and everyone else takes a similarly traditional fantasy party role. Even BH, the "ranged Tank," must use melee in this instance, because without at least Novice Brawler they don't have the pivotal Taunt ability - nor can Taunt be used while a ranged weapon is equipped.
You can't mix and match classes in EQ2, though each character in EQ2 has both a main class level and a crafting class level. But you really can't "mix and match" as much in SWG either - at least, we're being pushed away from that concept. Everyone touts that SWG is a skill-based system, but it really isn't. It has always been a Class based system in a skill based skin. We have all always worried about the roles of "Professions." I ask you, if the "Smuggler Profession" was simply called "Smuggling Skill," would we worry about it's "role" in the game as much? No, and the same goes for every other "skill" in the game. And now, like traditional MMORPGs, they've added real, tangible levels to the game.
You bring up player cities, and I'll only say this about them as they're not really relevant to the CU. But Player Cities, since their inception, have had nothing but a bad effect on SWG. I challenge you to show me even ONE thriving player city - for it I know I can show you ten ghost towns. On top of that, player cities have removed the need to visit NPC cities, and helped spread our already small population too thin over the planets in our respective galaxies.
Andon afinal, more CU, note -the "colorful icons." Personally I don't have a problem with the icons, I just have an issue with their implementation. They're too colorful and too detailed for their size, and are exceedingly cramped in the old toolbar. Another thing I feel most players are sensing are the new icons departure from the art teams original design concept for the HUD, in which I most whole heartedly agree. The art style just doesn't fit the decorum of the rest of the HUD design.
GraySeven wrote:Mechanics are mechanics folks. Whether you can use any weapon but badly if you're not cert'd for it or you simply can't use the weapon at all MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE!So what that you can't equip a weapon you can't use. Did you plan on picking up a T-21 without being a Master Rifleman? No, I'm betting you didn't. You are complaining about a non-issue and that is doing nothing to test the CU.You people make me sick. You are whinning about something YOU AREN'T GOING TO DO ANYWAY! You are whinning that you can't wear X armor or use Y weapon if you aren't certified for it, and you know that you wouldn't do it anyway.Deal with it. Suck it up and play the game under the new rules or quit. There is no middle ground here. The CU is going to happen, balance requires certs, and the new combat engine, whether or not it operates similar to any other game is much better than /spam best special until MOB is dead.Get a life and find something worthwhile to whine about...like too many Jedi ruining continuity
You'd lose that bet...for one I roleplay a corellian that mix and matches armor...he's not the richest person there is and uses what he can get his hands on...and yes I have been seen running about with a t-21 on occasion without being even a rifleman.(what can I say, corellians like to show off)
It's a mmoRpg after all, I don't like getting told what I can and can not wear.
WolfwoodCross wrote:
Well, to begin with, Swordsmen, Fencers, and Pikemen are all very, very non-Star Wars. TKA have their place because of canon, and Jedi ARE Star Wars, though there very existance in-game is non-canonical. EQ2 has crafting professions, and the concept of "social" professions is a joke. Anybody can be social, you don't need a profession to do it.
To be fair, you actually see swordsman and pikeman in Return of the Jedi. And the only source that provides for TK is an EU that claims TKA died out millenia ago, and the only practioner alive today is a replicant droid named Guri who is owned by Prince Xisor. And true you can be social, but no other game has anything like Dancers Musicians and Image Designers.
The reason most people see a change to "EQ2" is based mainly upon the new party dynamic, where only the heavily armored or defensable melee are "Tanks" and everyone else takes a similarly traditional fantasy party role. Even BH, the "ranged Tank," must use melee in this instance, because without at least Novice Brawler they don't have the pivotal Taunt ability - nor can Taunt be used while a ranged weapon is equipped.
Again, just because they used the lingo does not mean those professions are pigeonedholed into those roles. And may I remind you that they held those roles usually already. Take this example: When asked how to hunt Krayt, I am alwase told to bring a TKM to tank it and a commando to nuke it.
You can't mix and match classes in EQ2, though each character in EQ2 has both a main class level and a crafting class level. But you really can't "mix and match" as much in SWG either - at least, we're being pushed away from that concept. Everyone touts that SWG is a skill-based system, but it really isn't. It has always been a Class based system in a skill based skin. We have all always worried about the roles of "Professions." I ask you, if the "Smuggler Profession" was simply called "Smuggling Skill," would we worry about it's "role" in the game as much? No, and the same goes for every other "skill" in the game. And now, like traditional MMORPGs, they've added real, tangible levels to the game.
Ahh, but you are assuming that a person wants to Master that profession. If all I want out of commando is the flame line, that's all I have to take. And those levels were already there. Remember the missio levels when you took a mission? Or the difficulty level of your pets? That's all the new 'levels' really are, they're just more out front for people to see.
You bring up player cities, and I'll only say this about them as they're not really relevant to the CU. But Player Cities, since their inception, have had nothing but a bad effect on SWG. I challenge you to show me even ONE thriving player city - for it I know I can show you ten ghost towns. On top of that, player cities have removed the need to visit NPC cities, and helped spread our already small population too thin over the planets in our respective galaxies.
I can't dissagree. But it's still a big difference!
Andon afinal, more CU, note -the "colorful icons." Personally I don't have a problem with the icons, I just have an issue with their implementation. They're too colorful and too detailed for their size, and are exceedingly cramped in the old toolbar. Another thing I feel most players are sensing are the new icons departure from the art teams original design concept for the HUD, in which I most whole heartedly agree. The art style just doesn't fit the decorum of the rest of the HUD design.
Well I can't judge that myself as I have really poor vision. So it all looks blurred to me.
Blixtev wrote:
Starcloud wrote:Blixtev,I'd really appreciate it if in the next meeting you would point out to everyone that this is Star Wars, not Star Fantasy, and find some way of getting away from the Fantasy mindset of "elemental magics in opposition."From the magazine of the same name see Science Fantasy (magazine)
"Science fantasy is the merging of science fiction and fantasy, two popular genres of writing. The two are notoriously difficult to define, and possibly even more difficult to distinguish. One might claim that science fiction provides a scientific explanation for all phenomena, whereas fantasy mostly takes the supernatural for granted. However, the "science" behind these explanations is often no more than mumbo-jumbo, especially in the pulp magazines. Hence, it might be said that the difference is more one of stage props: on the one hand we have spacecraft and phasers, on the other hand magic carpets and wands of smiting.
Now, since Arthur C. Clarke claims that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", this distinction also becomes blurred, and the area in which it is most blurred is science fantasy. Here, we find the props that are typical for fantasy explained in a manner typical for science fiction: monsters become aliens, and magic artifacts become relics of forgotten science.
The Martian stories of Leigh Brackett might be regarded as science fantasy, as well as M. John Harrison's Viriconium novels, or Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. Many works by Edgar Rice Burroughs, especially his Barsoom novels, clearly fall into this category. Terry Brooks' world depicted in "The Sword of Shannara" sits on this line as well. Perhaps the most well-known example of science fantasy is Star Wars. "
PWN KK THANX
Thunderghost1 wrote:
GraySeven wrote:Mechanics are mechanics folks. Whether you can use any weapon but badly if you're not cert'd for it or you simply can't use the weapon at all MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE!So what that you can't equip a weapon you can't use. Did you plan on picking up a T-21 without being a Master Rifleman? No, I'm betting you didn't. You are complaining about a non-issue and that is doing nothing to test the CU.You people make me sick. You are whinning about something YOU AREN'T GOING TO DO ANYWAY! You are whinning that you can't wear X armor or use Y weapon if you aren't certified for it, and you know that you wouldn't do it anyway.Deal with it. Suck it up and play the game under the new rules or quit. There is no middle ground here. The CU is going to happen, balance requires certs, and the new combat engine, whether or not it operates similar to any other game is much better than /spam best special until MOB is dead.Get a life and find something worthwhile to whine about...like too many Jedi ruining continuity
You'd lose that bet...for one I roleplay a corellian that mix and matches armor...he's not the richest person there is and uses what he can get his hands on...and yes I have been seen running about with a t-21 on occasion without being even a rifleman.(what can I say, corellians like to show off)
It's a mmoRpg after all, I don't like getting told what I can and can not wear.
Bet lost in my case too - check the pic in sig.
GraySeven wrote:Mechanics are mechanics folks. Whether you can use any weapon but badly if you're not cert'd for it or you simply can't use the weapon at all MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE!So what that you can't equip a weapon you can't use. Did you plan on picking up a T-21 without being a Master Rifleman? No, I'm betting you didn't. You are complaining about a non-issue and that is doing nothing to test the CU.You people make me sick. You are whinning about something YOU AREN'T GOING TO DO ANYWAY! You are whinning that you can't wear X armor or use Y weapon if you aren't certified for it, and you know that you wouldn't do it anyway.Deal with it. Suck it up and play the game under the new rules or quit. There is no middle ground here. The CU is going to happen, balance requires certs, and the new combat engine, whether or not it operates similar to any other game is much better than /spam best special until MOB is dead.Get a life and find something worthwhile to whine about...like too many Jedi ruining continuity
Your gonna piss off a lot of dancers with your logic; i see a many of them using Executioneers Hacks, Scyths, 1 Hand swords, guns, etc. It's a part of their show.
You should be able to equip something if your not certified to use it, you just wont be able to anything with it in terms of damage. End of story.
Blixtev wrote:
Starcloud wrote:
Blixtev,
I'd really appreciate it if in the next meeting you would point out to everyone that this is Star Wars, not Star Fantasy, and find some way of getting away from the Fantasy mindset of "elemental magics in opposition."
From the magazine of the same name see Science Fantasy (magazine)
"Science fantasy is the merging of science fiction and fantasy, two popular genres of writing. The two are notoriously difficult to define, and possibly even more difficult to distinguish. One might claim that science fiction provides a scientific explanation for all phenomena, whereas fantasy mostly takes the supernatural for granted. However, the "science" behind these explanations is often no more than mumbo-jumbo, especially in the pulp magazines. Hence, it might be said that the difference is more one of stage props: on the one hand we have spacecraft and phasers, on the other hand magic carpets and wands of smiting.
Now, since Arthur C. Clarke claims that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", this distinction also becomes blurred, and the area in which it is most blurred is science fantasy. Here, we find the props that are typical for fantasy explained in a manner typical for science fiction: monsters become aliens, and magic artifacts become relics of forgotten science.
The Martian stories of Leigh Brackett might be regarded as science fantasy, as well as M. John Harrison's Viriconium novels, or Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. Many works by Edgar Rice Burroughs, especially his Barsoom novels, clearly fall into this category. Terry Brooks' world depicted in "The Sword of Shannara" sits on this line as well. Perhaps the most well-known example of science fantasy is Star Wars. "
LeBob wrote:
Blixtev wrote:
Starcloud wrote:
Blixtev,
I'd really appreciate it if in the next meeting you would point out to everyone that this is Star Wars, not Star Fantasy, and find some way of getting away from the Fantasy mindset of "elemental magics in opposition."
From the magazine of the same name see Science Fantasy (magazine)
"Science fantasy is the merging of science fiction and fantasy, two popular genres of writing. The two are notoriously difficult to define, and possibly even more difficult to distinguish. One might claim that science fiction provides a scientific explanation for all phenomena, whereas fantasy mostly takes the supernatural for granted. However, the "science" behind these explanations is often no more than mumbo-jumbo, especially in the pulp magazines. Hence, it might be said that the difference is more one of stage props: on the one hand we have spacecraft and phasers, on the other hand magic carpets and wands of smiting.
Now, since Arthur C. Clarke claims that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", this distinction also becomes blurred, and the area in which it is most blurred is science fantasy. Here, we find the props that are typical for fantasy explained in a manner typical for science fiction: monsters become aliens, and magic artifacts become relics of forgotten science.
The Martian stories of Leigh Brackett might be regarded as science fantasy, as well as M. John Harrison's Viriconium novels, or Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. Many works by Edgar Rice Burroughs, especially his Barsoom novels, clearly fall into this category. Terry Brooks' world depicted in "The Sword of Shannara" sits on this line as well. Perhaps the most well-known example of science fantasy is Star Wars. "
Um, as far as the Arthur C. Clarke quote, I think the point was that the advanced technology would seem like magic to less advanced people - it would not seem like magic to people who commonly use that technology or even invented it...
Star Wars is not fantasy land; it is science fiction.
Point of fact, Star Wars is not science fiction, it's Space Opera. Small difference I know, but also substantial.
Ihareo wrote:
WolfwoodCross wrote:
The reason most people see a change to "EQ2" is based mainly upon the new party dynamic, where only the heavily armored or defensable melee are "Tanks" and everyone else takes a similarly traditional fantasy party role. Even BH, the "ranged Tank," must use melee in this instance, because without at least Novice Brawler they don't have the pivotal Taunt ability - nor can Taunt be used while a ranged weapon is equipped.
Again, just because they used the lingo does not mean those professions are pigeonedholed into those roles. And may I remind you that they held those roles usually already. Take this example: When asked how to hunt Krayt, I am alwase told to bring a TKM to tank it and a commando to nuke it.
But they ARE being pigeon-holed - despite lingo usage. Armor and Weapon certs now practically define roles. A Ranged weapon user can no longer tank. Squad Leaders are "nudged" towards Carbineer as CM is "nudged" towards Pistoleer. Viable Tank "Assault" Armor certs now only reside in their respective "Tank" Professions.
And anyway,a group of six unbuffed players - Two Swordsmen, Two Riflemen with SG82s, and two Support can take out a Krayt as well.
WolfwoodCross wrote:
Ihareo wrote:
WolfwoodCross wrote:
The reason most people see a change to "EQ2" is based mainly upon the new party dynamic, where only the heavily armored or defensable melee are "Tanks" and everyone else takes a similarly traditional fantasy party role. Even BH, the "ranged Tank," must use melee in this instance, because without at least Novice Brawler they don't have the pivotal Taunt ability - nor can Taunt be used while a ranged weapon is equipped.
Again, just because they used the lingo does not mean those professions are pigeonedholed into those roles. And may I remind you that they held those roles usually already. Take this example: When asked how to hunt Krayt, I am alwase told to bring a TKM to tank it and a commando to nuke it.
But they ARE being pigeon-holed - despite lingo usage. Armor and Weapon certs now practically define roles. A Ranged weapon user can no longer tank. Squad Leaders are "nudged" towards Carbineer as CM is "nudged" towards Pistoleer. Viable Tank "Assault" Armor certs now only reside in their respective "Tank" Professions.
And anyway,a group of six unbuffed players - Two Swordsmen, Two Riflemen with SG82s, and two Support can take out a Krayt as well.
That's your opinion. And you seem to be only seeing the one profession by itself instead of imagining what the combinations will do for you.
Instead of thinking of just what a rifleman can do, Imagine a rifleman with some commando.