Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Armorsmith's and Serious bug/stealth nerf
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BH-man1234
Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:23 pm
#1
Hello all, If you play on Tarquinas Server you all know me as Ironheart, or the previous character I made armor on was Tireseus, and before that I was an apprentice to Coolman from Day 1 of SWG release. Well I ve been making armor since the beginning of SWG, and Ive seen a lot of changes most for the better, but between the period of 4-5 months ago a patch had came out that affected us greatly, the sad part being that 99% of you probably didnt notice it, untill the food patch came, and once PSG's were good and plentiful.
I have several characters on my sever one being a master BH. Well you all know that being a AS, I have the cash to buy him the best weapons, and of course outfit him with the best foods available. I noticed something strange happening when I opened my combat log one day. Here is how I performed my test:
I took off all armor, stood there naked with a 0/0 condition scatter (that way I deal no damage but the NPC thinks I have a weapon), and I started to attack a Kreetle, yes don't laugh had to for test purposes. The kreetle dealt me a solid hit of 33 to health. I burst run, peace and come back, this time I wear my armor, have my other char (master doc) buff me to stick on my armor, and then I sit there withing 60m of the kreetle and wait my 2 1/2 hours of buffs to wear out. Now the armor I wear is 90% to all stats except blast, which is at 80%, its heavy but it USED to be awesome armor. So once the buffs run out, I take a synthesteak (40% resist to next 29 attacks) and slap on my PSG 40% to all stats. I attack the kreetle and GEEE now he hits me for 77 (kinetic) which the armor now blocks (after calculation 61.3%) and the steak "defensive buffs" stop about 20 points of damage, but the kreetle still hits me and causes 16 points of damage. Now that is pretty darn near HALF of 33. which brings me to my point.
When armor was nerfed back in the day (pre patch we could make near 120% composite at one time) they capped it at 90%, so now no matter what you cant make armor above 90%, ok fine, BUT what happened here either by stealth nerf or non intentional, is that ALL defense cannot surpas 90%, meaning if you have 90% composite armor to all stats, then taking steak and wearing a PSG doesnt work properly. Meaning the only way to get your defense higher is to become a temploiter rifleman/fencer etc. This brings the question of fairness, so Its ok to get your defensive % higher by temploiting , but by wearing 90% composite you reap no benefit.
in conclusion I feel that even though the PSG and the steak with 80-90% composite would put you at a insane high 100-115% protection, it would only be temporary, maybe 23 minutes at top, averaging each PvP fight at 5 minutes (rounding up), thats 4 3/5 PvP fights. That may be a lot to you, but the steak and PSG dont run to cheap if this is a constant thing. I feel that the players that can afford this , the armor , the PSG, and the food, should deserve there 23 minutes of UBER status. Its not every single player that CAN afford this. Well anyways Ive tested this method from kreetle to kwi to krayt, to kimo, to mauruader, to the infamous and rare Stoneskinned Handanak, and like I said its either bugged or stealth nerfed, cause at one time it actually worked.
Thanks for reading see you in game.
destrkta
Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:31 am
#3
it is possible to get resist up high to almost no dmg but it's a bit of work and it really depends on the amount of dmg delt on smaller hits yes you can almost negatate all dmg on larger hits because of % even some dmg gets through take the bellow example
take a hit for 100dmg
your psg stops 40% of the dmg there for 60dmg gets through
this 60dmg is then reduced by a further 90% due to 90% armour
this results in 54pts of dmg stopped and 6pts getting through
your syn steak then stops antoehr 40% of this dmg resulting in 3dmg getting through,
in the end the final result of the dmg getting through is 3% based on the original 100 now this isn't taking into consideration ap levels we are taking in on a equal level.
if you were then to change these figures and say be hit for 1000dmg the resulting int 36dmg getting through as per the above formula, so no ucan't be invincible but u can almost be.
GrammarQueen
Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:30 pm
#4
BH-man1234 wrote:in conclusion I feel that even though the PSG and the steak with 80-90% composite would put you at a insane high 100-115% protection, it would only be temporary, maybe 23 minutes at top, averaging each PvP fight at 5 minutes (rounding up), thats 4 3/5 PvP fights. That may be a lot to you, but the steak and PSG dont run to cheap if this is a constant thing. I feel that the players that can afford this , the armor , the PSG, and the food, should deserve there 23 minutes of UBER status. Its not every single player that CAN afford this. Well anyways Ive tested this method from kreetle to kwi to krayt, to kimo, to mauruader, to the infamous and rare Stoneskinned Handanak, and like I said its either bugged or stealth nerfed, cause at one time it actually worked.Thanks for reading see you in game.
While a few of us may believe that there should be a way to be invulnerable, the devs sure dont. The devs put a cap on defensive stacking for just this purpose.
That out of the way, it is probably more of a bug than a nerf. I say that because the chance of the system being able to weed through 3 sets of resistances has to be buggy as they are just getting the armor hole fixed (and that was just a bug through 1 set). What you are probably seeing is the system jacking up the damage dealt to figure out how much is resisted (since there is no way for the computer to have you resist more than 100% of the damage.)
BH-man1234
Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:33 pm
#5
what the person above this post , just poseted, SHOULD be true, and thats the way it "should" work , but thats what I was posting, is that it isnt working that way, the steak , psg just cancels out for some reason
JaatoWaals
Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:59 pm
#6
BH-man: I'm confused about what you're reporting. Can you describe what's going a bit more clearly? Are they stacking at all? Or is one replacing the other? Your numbers don't seem to make any sense to me.
Shlo_mo_shun
Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:59 pm
#7
I am seeing these things stacking just fine. Dunno about your experience. When i have been running quenker missions recently, i have 34% PSG, 70%Ubese, and steak (as well as dodging aircakes) I see myself get hit, I see the spam for the PSG, I see the spam for my armor, then I see the reduction due to food (as a white line, after the reductions for the PSG and armor). It says something like 'your damage has been reduced due to stat modification' or something. All three reduce damage down to like exactly what they should. PSG reduces by 50%, then 34%, then Ubese for 50%, then 70%, then like 40% for the food. net reduction is like 98%
Boooozark
Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:19 pm
#8
Don't quenkers deal kinetic damage? If so your PSG really shouldn't be blocking anything as they are supposed to have kinetic as a vulnerability.
GrueLokk
Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:06 pm
#9
Shlo_mo_shun wrote:
I am seeing these things stacking just fine. Dunno about your experience. When i have been running quenker missions recently, i have 34% PSG, 70%Ubese, and steak (as well as dodging aircakes) I see myself get hit, I see the spam for the PSG, I see the spam for my armor, then I see the reduction due to food (as a white line, after the reductions for the PSG and armor). It says something like 'your damage has been reduced due to stat modification' or something. All three reduce damage down to like exactly what they should. PSG reduces by 50%, then 34%, then Ubese for 50%, then 70%, then like 40% for the food. net reduction is like 98%
hehe i call BS
GrueLokk
Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:07 pm
#10
try this without the psg, your using something with a kinetic vulnerability stacked with an item of special protection, its probably messing up your ap status, while getting hit by a kinetic attack.
BH-man1234
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:27 am
#11
In reply to the correspondent:
If the defense from the armor, PSG, and steak STACK, meaning the percents add up,, I would be well over 110% to (lets says for example) Kinetic. meaning, if a kreetle hits me, I should be hit for.......(your answer goes here), and the answer is..... 0, zilch , nada, nothing. Im thinking from what Im hearing this is intentional....the fact I still take damage I mean.The damage reduction should be a RAW total as opposed to an accumulated total. Its kind of hard to explain, but its still here even after this recent patch (the droid patch). Im wearing 90% comp I take a synthesteak thats blocks 40% for the next 29 attacks, and my PSG has 39% to ALL stats, well why am I getting hit for 2-3 points of damage from a capper spineflap? shouldn't it be 0??? since I am above 100% protected from kinetic? It just doesn't make any sense to me, none at all. tested this over and over with various creatures, the math is wrong on damage to hit : protection+defensive buffs+PSG ratio. I could "sort of" see why SWG DEV's would do this, so that some characters wouldn't be invulnerable for a period of time, but in all aspects, as Ive stated above, if you can afford the 90% comp, the PSG's, and the food, you deserve a few minutes 10-15 minutes, to be totally invulnerable to attacks, its not like everyone can afford todo this. The onlyvariable that would allow this for only maybe 4-5 attacks, is BE flameout...and yet that takes up your whole stomach, which goes beyond the period of time of effect on protection. The greatest place to witness this is the Corvette, the damage hit ratios are way off, im taking the synthesteak, and wearing the 90% comp, with 80% to acid, and wearing my full stats PSG's and taking on much more damage that I should be. Please correspondent, explain this math ratio to me.
BH-man1234
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:39 am
#12
Ive almost got this nailed, but Im seeing that SINCE the armor I wear is at 90%, which is the defensive cap for armor (maybe intended to be the cap total for ALL stacked defensive measures), taking the steak, and wearing the PSG is lowering the protection value of the composite armor Im wearing, and glitches and spits out a random number for base protection for my composite. Wow , this is really hard to explain, lol. Im going to use even numbers, to make this easy. Im wearing 90% comp, with the steak add another theoretical 50% , now Im at 140% protection, then add my PSG, (another even theoretical number) 50%, now Im at 190% protection to kinetic, thats what I SHOULD be at. But according to what I see , THIS is what happens:
I put on 90% composite, take a 50% synthesteak, instead of stacking, it re-assimilates itself, so now the base of my composite shifts to being 40% composite so the 50% from the steak can "fit" in to the equation, now what am I at % wise? thats right only 90% still, then I add the PSG at 50%, again it tries to assimilate itself again into the defense equation, so now the base of the composite is at some odd random number, and all of it seems to go haywire at this point, cause none of the numbers make sense...there is no repetition or consistancy with it...until the steak exceeds it "hit" limit or time, then the figurative base of the composite continues to "kind of" start working properly again. I wish a CSR would just follow me and note my combat log, so they can witness it in person...err third person.
InsaneDms
Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:29 am
#13
BH-man1234 wrote:
Ive almost got this nailed, but Im seeing that SINCE the armor I wear is at 90%, which is the defensive cap for armor (maybe intended to be the cap total for ALL stacked defensive measures), taking the steak, and wearing the PSG is lowering the protection value of the composite armor Im wearing, and glitches and spits out a random number for base protection for my composite. Wow , this is really hard to explain, lol. Im going to use even numbers, to make this easy. Im wearing 90% comp, with the steak add another theoretical 50% , now Im at 140% protection, then add my PSG, (another even theoretical number) 50%, now Im at 190% protection to kinetic, thats what I SHOULD be at. But according to what I see , THIS is what happens:
Uh, no. Damage is not calculated by (PSG% + Armor% + Steak%) * Damage
Its more like Damage = Damage * PSG% * Armor % * Steak%
Each multiplication reduces damage, so they "stack" but not in the way you are thinking.
I put on 90% composite, take a 50% synthesteak, instead of stacking, it re-assimilates itself, so now the base of my composite shifts to being 40% composite so the 50% from the steak can "fit" in to the equation, now what am I at % wise? thats right only 90% still, then I add the PSG at 50%, again it tries to assimilate itself again into the defense equation, so now the base of the composite is at some odd random number, and all of it seems to go haywire at this point, cause none of the numbers make sense...there is no repetition or consistancy with it...until the steak exceeds it "hit" limit or time, then the figurative base of the composite continues to "kind of" start working properly again. I wish a CSR would just follow me and note my combat log, so they can witness it in person...err third person.
I'm not sure what you are describing here at all.
As someone who uses a LOT of armor, I've never seen this. I've always had the damage reduction percentages work as expected (minus the armor hole).
i.e. A monster hits for 100 damage.
PSG Reduces damage by 30% (70 damage through PSG, yeah, yeah I'm ignoring AP)
Armor reduces damage by 90% (7 damage through Armor)
Synthsteak reduces damage by 50% (4 damagethrough steak)
I take 4 damage (96% overall damage reduction with a 30% PSG, 90% armor, and 50% steak)
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