Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Layers question from a new AS
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Taltas
Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:08 pm
#1
I recently acquired Master Armorsmith by grinding it out, and while I have read all the stickies, I either missed a part, or there is a hole in the knowledge base.
My biggest question is "How good, is good enough" when it comes to layers.
I want to craft composite that has 80% Kinetic special protection, and at least 65% base protection. I understand that composite can take up to 3 layers per segment, and that each composite peice required 2 or 3 segments. What I don't understand is how it goes together.
Let's use the helmet for example, which SWGcaft.com tells me requires 3 identical segments. If I get a layer to 10% kinetic protection, and put 3 in a segment, will that segment have 30% kinetic protection?
Likewise, if the segment did have 30%, and I use 3 of them in the helmet, would it have 90% special protection?
Armors that have more than one special protection confuse me even more. I know composite has a special protection of electric. Is it possible to get composite with 80% kinetic, 80% electric, 40% stun?
I am sitting on a fortune of amazing materials, and have access to a 12 point suit, but I don't know where to begin.
Any help is appreciated.
Message Edited by Taltas on 03-21-2005 04:37 PM
UmmonPrime
Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:46 pm
#2
Play with them a little. Try maxing out base and durabilty and see where that gets you. If that gets you close, lets say 79% kinetic, make one layer 5% kinetic, max out base and throw the rest into durabilty. The less you put into the base though, the more you'll have to put into kinetic.
You will have to make some gloves till you find your "special" recipe.
For mine, I max out base and throw the rest into durabilty. This makes a 4%base 4% kinetic and 10/10/10 encum layer. Then I turn around and make 80% kinetic 80% elec and 71% base comp. Right now, the encum is a little high because of this method, but like I said, play with it and see what you like. This isn't using my best resources, so it could actually be a little better in base.
Remeber that you have to do factory runs of layers if you plan on making anythink but gloves.
Taltas
Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:18 pm
#3
Thanks for the advice on practicing on gloves. I didn't know of any way to experiment.
That being said, I guess I don't understand how a 4% kinetic layer ends up as 80% kinetic special protection.
Vizzer
Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:57 pm
#4
I put all my expiramentation points into the middle expiramentation line(Quality) and then the rest in the other places. But the best is to play with it. I make 80%Kinetic/Electric and 71%Base.
plonger
Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:44 pm
#5
Taltas wrote:
Thanks for the advice on practicing on gloves. I didn't know of any way to experiment.
That being said, I guess I don't understand how a 4% kinetic layer ends up as 80% kinetic special protection.
Make a set of gloves using advanced segments without any layers. The base resists on this will hopefully be in the mid 50's or thereabouts. This base resist is what you use to determine how your layers should be crafted to get the desired resists. To determine what your layers need to be, lets assume you make a pair of unlayered gloves that have 56% base resists andyou want 80% kinetic armor.
The equation works like this, (base of unlayered gloves) + (base of your layers) + (resists of your layers) = 80
So if you make 4% base layers, your equation now is 56% base + (3x4) + (3xresists) = 80
Your layer resists will need to be 4% to get to 80% resist overall. So this armor would be 68% base (56+12) with special resists of 80% on kinetic.
Govo
Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:41 pm
#6
plonger wrote:
Taltas wrote:
Thanks for the advice on practicing on gloves. I didn't know of any way to experiment.
That being said, I guess I don't understand how a 4% kinetic layer ends up as 80% kinetic special protection.
Make a set of gloves using advanced segments without any layers. The base resists on this will hopefully be in the mid 50's or thereabouts. This base resist is what you use to determine how your layers should be crafted to get the desired resists. To determine what your layers need to be, lets assume you make a pair of unlayered gloves that have 56% base resists andyou want 80% kinetic armor.
The equation works like this, (base of unlayered gloves) + (base of your layers) + (resists of your layers) = 80
So if you make 4% base layers, your equation now is 56% base + (3x4) + (3xresists) = 80
Your layer resists will need to be 4% to get to 80% resist overall. So this armor would be 68% base (56+12) with special resists of 80% on kinetic.
Plonger dont take this as a flame in any way. Its just cuz us masters are able to do this math in our head on the fly 
Ill just ellaborate a bit more. Most new AS's dont understand the relationship between base protection and how it pushes the special protection as well (with comp anyway).
Ill just ellaborate a bit more. Most new AS's dont understand the relationship between base protection and how it pushes the special protection as well (with comp anyway).lets fool with unlayered base gloves at 60%
So lets add 1 kin layer that has 4% base and 4% kin.
The 4% base on the layer adds ...well... 4% base, so now we have 64% base gloves.
The 4% kin on that same layer adds 4% kinetic on top of the 64% base we now have, but remember it only adds to the kinetic special. So now we have 64% base and 68% kinetic.
With good/great resources any armorsmith can make 80kin/80elec armor. The base is dependant on resources, a 12pt smith cant achieve higher base than a 10 pt smith with the same resources.
Depending on your resources you may have to put a point into special on the layer to boost the kin to 80.
Likewise in the seg, you may have to put a point into special to raise the elec to 80.
Bottom line...you have to understand the math behind what you are doing. Once you grasp this, crafting is much more enjoyable.
Speaking of enjoyable, if your going AS purely for the money then its not the profession for you. AS allows you a creativity that is not found in any other crafting profession in game
Taltas
Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:20 am
#7
Actually I haven't been a crafter yet, and I realized as my jedi gets nearer to the end of the grind, that I needed to find the next challenge in SWG. If I don't have a challenge, I get bored with games very quickly. Money is secondary, although I won't mind getting in on the ground floor with the CU.
My current problem is the fact that I don't have any Kirium steel for the advanced segments.
I did experiment last night with normal segments though, and I was curious how much % that advanced segments gave.
By putting 8 points into quality, and 2 into special protection, I was able to get layers with 4% base, 5% special, and 14 for HAM. I had gotten all amazing, it would have been 6% special, or lower ham.
The final product came out at 72% kinetic, and 56% base. How much do you think an advanced segment would raise these %?
Message Edited by Taltas on 03-22-2005 10:22 AM
Message Edited by Taltas on 03-22-2005 10:23 AM
NasherUK
Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:26 am
#8
A question thats kinda related to this: Does a special resist give more protection than the same resist in effectiveness? E.g. if you have some armor with 50% kinetic in special and 1 with 50% in base will the one with it in special absorb much more damage?
I'm not an armorsmith myself, but I want to know if its worth getting armor made using krayt scales to shift resists into special? Since with them you can get multiple special resists at 70-80%.
Message Edited by NasherUK on 03-22-2005 08:27 AM
plonger
Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:33 am
#9
NasherUK wrote:
A question thats kinda related to this: Does a special resist give more protection than the same resist in effectiveness? E.g. if you have some armor with 50% kinetic in special and 1 with 50% in base will the one with it in special absorb much more damage?
I'm not an armorsmith myself, but I want to know if its worth getting armor made using krayt scales to shift resists into special? Since with them you can get multiple special resists at 70-80%.
Message Edited by NasherUK on 03-22-2005 08:27 AM
Resists will block the same amount of damage whether they are special or base, there is no difference in the protection levels. Special resists really only make sense when you consider base armor without any layers as this resist is usually higher than the base resists, hence it is special. By using layers, smiths are able to boost other base resists up to the higher levels so they in effect become special too.
Mought1971
Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:38 am
#10
From what I understand, special resists are not the best idea since these stats will not improve with slicing. Only base effectiveness can be improved.
As for the question, I believe that special resists give exactly the same protection as if they were in base. So no, the two armors in your example would perform identically.
Using Krayt in armor seems to be a way of getting higher/more resists with less layers, but at the cost of sliceability.
plonger
Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:39 am
#11
Taltas wrote:
Actually I haven't been a crafter yet, and I realized as my jedi gets nearer to the end of the grind, that I needed to find the next challenge in SWG. If I don't have a challenge, I get bored with games very quickly. Money is secondary, although I won't mind getting in on the ground floor with the CU.
My current problem is the fact that I don't have any Kirium steel for the advanced segments.
I did experiment last night with normal segments though, and I was curious how much % that advanced segments gave.
By putting 8 points into quality, and 2 into special protection, I was able to get layers with 4% base, 5% special, and 14 for HAM. I had gotten all amazing, it would have been 6% special, or lower ham.
The final product came out at 72% kinetic, and 56% base. How much do you think an advanced segment would raise these %?
Message Edited by Taltas on 03-22-2005 10:22 AM
Message Edited by Taltas on 03-22-2005 10:23 AM
Advanced segments with good resources should get you base of mid 50's without layers as a 10 pt smith. So using this logic, you could get your base up to 68 or so with your layers, (base of 55 or so + (3 x 4% on layers).
Taltas
Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:58 am
#12
How do stun layers work differently?
I made stun layers with 4% base and 5% special protection, but the final product was only 17% stun.
Vizzer
Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:04 am
#13
Stun adds together. With stun expirament on the Special resists completely, I get 13%
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