Armorsmith Archive

Message Edited by Okram2k on 04-16-2005 06:58 PM

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Okram2k wrote:

Well okay, as every day passes the doom of the armorsmithing profession comes closer and closer. Don't kid yourself, it really is pretty bad on TC right now. The cost to producing armor now far outweighs the rewards, and the system for producing armor is dumbed down for the crafters, while the final product is overly confusing to the average combat player. And all at the same time, natural armor has been implemented that is as good as the best armor worn by players, but for free.

Well here we have 5 things devs can do to save this profession:

#1: Add an experimentation bar.

Make armor crafting more interesting! Not this incredibly boring 1 line for resists and you're done crap that we have in front of us. While this solution is probably the hardest to implement, it would have the most benifits to our profession. First for layers we add one experimentation bar, to effect the penalty of the layer. So it is broken down to primary bar increasing layer resists, while a secondary bar lessens the amount of penalty.

For example, let's take a kinetic layer, if you had 0% experimentation in both bars, the layer would be +0 kin /-100 energy Then if with the maximum experimenation of 100% you would get +100 kin / - 0 Energy. Of course it would be imposible to get either bar to 100%, and hard to get both bars very high. This would greatly benifit higher end smiths who have more experimentation points as they can decrease the cost of adding the layer to armor.

Now for the rest of armor components, we would have three bars, the primary bar would increase kinetic/energy resists, and the secondary bar would increase elemental resistances. This not only benifits us with more experimentation, but makes elemental weapons more potent since armors will have to specalize in either base damage types, or elemental damage types. The breakdown for increase would either be a 75/25 increase to energy/kinetic if the armor type is assault or recon, and then a 50/50 increase for battle armor. While a strait forward influx would work for the elemental bar.

By adding the additional bar to these stages of armor we can greatly increase the customizability of armor, while still maintining the CU system, and not make us feel super dumbed down armorsmiths.

#2: Decrease Resource Usage.

Seriously, a resource increase of more then 4 times what it used to be? Do you really want us charging players 500k per suit for standard run of the mill armor? These resource requirements are just too extreme. While it is acceptable to us that you need to keep armor from reaching 90% all the way down the line, but armor just isn't as good as it used to be, and if armor is not as good, why should it cost more? Increasing the cost to produce armor, and decreasing it's usefullness seriously throws out of whack the cost to benifit ratio and could cripple the armor economy.

#3: Decrease Factory Times

We did the math, and factory times for high end armors is close to double what it used to be. Why does it need to be so high? We have increased resource cost, and now an increased factory production time? This adds even more to the cost for producing armor. I will suggest again, that devs should shoot for an average factory time of10 hour/suit for the highest end armor. This I think is a good goal to have, would be in line with current factory standards, and help us keep the player base equiped with armor. Some smiths already have factories that never stop and they struggle to keep up with orders, when this goes live, they will never be able to keep their vendors stocked.

#4: Stop beating around the bush with armor resists.

Okay, if you want these armor effeciency numbers, keep them in all along the crafting process, but when you put it into the final suit with it's appreance, that the player gets, let's not kid ourselves. Put the % in there. It reduces a percentage of damage just like before. There is no real change in the way armor functions in combat, except with new breakdowns of the way damage types work. We seriously do not need these big numbers that we will be spending an hour explaining to each customer. Put the % in, the game already calculates it.

#5: Make TKM's armor rating assault and not battle.

Plain and simple, a master terras kasi gets a 6000 armor rating, which works out to around 52-53% resistance. I am fine with that for kinetic damage, since they're supposed to be all tough and everything, but it doesn't make sense for having a similar resistance to energy damage types. Simply put, make them an assault armor like system, where they get max armor rating for kinetic, then a reduced amount for energy. If a tkm had 6000 kinetic, 5000 elemental, and 4000 energy, it would help keep them in check, and not make them the end all, free armor template.

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As far as I know being a Master Carbineer/MBH I don't have a natural armor rating... Only TKA's and Jedi's do, so I am not sure how you are making the assertion that ALL players get free armor rating now that is comparable to crafter armor. Maybe you should try being less sensationalist and a bit more realistic eh?

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Ileanna777 wrote:

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Okram2k wrote:

Well okay, as every day passes the doom of the armorsmithing profession comes closer and closer. Don't kid yourself, it really is pretty bad on TC right now. The cost to producing armor now far outweighs the rewards, and the system for producing armor is dumbed down for the crafters, while the final product is overly confusing to the average combat player. And all at the same time, natural armor has been implemented that is as good as the best armor worn by players, but for free.

Well here we have 5 things devs can do to save this profession:

#1: Add an experimentation bar.

Make armor crafting more interesting! Not this incredibly boring 1 line for resists and you're done crap that we have in front of us. While this solution is probably the hardest to implement, it would have the most benifits to our profession. First for layers we add one experimentation bar, to effect the penalty of the layer. So it is broken down to primary bar increasing layer resists, while a secondary bar lessens the amount of penalty.

For example, let's take a kinetic layer, if you had 0% experimentation in both bars, the layer would be +0 kin /-100 energy Then if with the maximum experimenation of 100% you would get +100 kin / - 0 Energy. Of course it would be imposible to get either bar to 100%, and hard to get both bars very high. This would greatly benifit higher end smiths who have more experimentation points as they can decrease the cost of adding the layer to armor.

Now for the rest of armor components, we would have three bars, the primary bar would increase kinetic/energy resists, and the secondary bar would increase elemental resistances. This not only benifits us with more experimentation, but makes elemental weapons more potent since armors will have to specalize in either base damage types, or elemental damage types. The breakdown for increase would either be a 75/25 increase to energy/kinetic if the armor type is assault or recon, and then a 50/50 increase for battle armor. While a strait forward influx would work for the elemental bar.

By adding the additional bar to these stages of armor we can greatly increase the customizability of armor, while still maintining the CU system, and not make us feel super dumbed down armorsmiths.

#2: Decrease Resource Usage.

Seriously, a resource increase of more then 4 times what it used to be? Do you really want us charging players 500k per suit for standard run of the mill armor? These resource requirements are just too extreme. While it is acceptable to us that you need to keep armor from reaching 90% all the way down the line, but armor just isn't as good as it used to be, and if armor is not as good, why should it cost more? Increasing the cost to produce armor, and decreasing it's usefullness seriously throws out of whack the cost to benifit ratio and could cripple the armor economy.

#3: Decrease Factory Times

We did the math, and factory times for high end armors is close to double what it used to be. Why does it need to be so high? We have increased resource cost, and now an increased factory production time? This adds even more to the cost for producing armor. I will suggest again, that devs should shoot for an average factory time of10 hour/suit for the highest end armor. This I think is a good goal to have, would be in line with current factory standards, and help us keep the player base equiped with armor. Some smiths already have factories that never stop and they struggle to keep up with orders, when this goes live, they will never be able to keep their vendors stocked.

#4: Stop beating around the bush with armor resists.

Okay, if you want these armor effeciency numbers, keep them in all along the crafting process, but when you put it into the final suit with it's appreance, that the player gets, let's not kid ourselves. Put the % in there. It reduces a percentage of damage just like before. There is no real change in the way armor functions in combat, except with new breakdowns of the way damage types work. We seriously do not need these big numbers that we will be spending an hour explaining to each customer. Put the % in, the game already calculates it.

#5: Make TKM's armor rating assault and not battle.

Plain and simple, a master terras kasi gets a 6000 armor rating, which works out to around 52-53% resistance. I am fine with that for kinetic damage, since they're supposed to be all tough and everything, but it doesn't make sense for having a similar resistance to energy damage types. Simply put, make them an assault armor like system, where they get max armor rating for kinetic, then a reduced amount for energy. If a tkm had 6000 kinetic, 5000 elemental, and 4000 energy, it would help keep them in check, and not make them the end all, free armor template.

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As far as I know being a Master Carbineer/MBH I don't have a natural armor rating... Only TKA's and Jedi's do, so I am not sure how you are making the assertion that ALL players get free armor rating now that is comparable to crafter armor. Maybe you should try being less sensationalist and a bit more realistic eh?

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I made the assertion that the TKM 6000 armor rating is as good as the best armor we can produce.

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AtonuTragona wrote:

Oak's point (I think)is that a Swords/fencer, for example, will have to buy armor. A TKM can get the same protection without having to pay for armor. Net, many folks will go TKM as the uber template, which seems to conflict with the intent of the CURB.

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I completely agree with everything Oak has posted here. The only thing i would add is something we cannot hope to see changed, yet i know it will be tweaked at some point down the line. Damage mutlipliers based on level may well be the end of AS if the level system works the way it currently does. Meaning armor will be only used for fighting jedi and their uber 6k+ dps sabers (see jedi forums for more info) and for high end hunting. The people we supply the most are grinders. If they are only looking to go after white con'd mobs then armor isn't even needed and the benefit does not match the cost in accuracy, movement, and rate of fire.

I agree with everyting also.

All my toons will be re-spec'd with TKM.


I'm sad to say though, the ONLY way for us prolly to get totally fixed is for us to hit live as the situation currently is. When OTHER players besides AS start complaining about lack/costs of armor, how confusing the 4 digit points are (I guarantee we all get like 50 tells a day asking whats the resist %'s = to) OR when they see that like 90% of the population has TKA.

Couldnt of said it better myself...great great GREAT post. Great suggestions. I have a sob story I am going to post so sorry in advance.

Im somewhat new to armorsmith. Ill start off saying that but I have been saving resources specifically for armorsmith since I first realized how much money a armorsmith could make.So about 6 months or so after launch I started to collect the best possible resources.(this whole first paragraph is true for the weaponsmith profession for me to)

So I started out as guess what? A architect so I could build my own factories, houses and harvesters .Then begin to horde high quality resources to make some of the best products on the server...It took me a long time before I felt comfortable enough to mass produce my products. To compete with the already succesfull smiths.

I was a 10 pt smith making 72% base comp and did great(made lots of credits). Finally, I saved enough credits to buy myself some ca's to become a 12 pt smith so i could make stun armor that was sellable I ended up spending roughly 1m per point to get all +3 ca's or better..

Now here comes the CU and I was all for the change..make armor somewhat balanced..Bring damage levels of weapons within a reasonable range.....balance the combat professions...Lots of hype surrounding the CU. Even filled out the form to be in the "closed beta" heh.

But what is killing me is now im finding out the resources are going to be changed(type and quantity) And that there will only be 1 line to experiment in? Ohh man(takes a deeeep breath) So, basically the last year I have saved resources and then spent all my profits to become a 12 pt smith was all for nodda? Please, someone tell me that I am over reacting..I play other aspects of the game but what really caught me was crafting the best armor ..