Armorsmith Archive
Thread: CURB Resource Number-Crunching
Page 1 of 6
Brutus_Krylop
Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:17 am
#1
It's late and I can't sleep, so what better way to pass the time than by doing some number crunching on the new armor schematics as provided by NiBorg. I'm going to assume that even with the new layering system, the advantages of quad-layering will be such that quad-layered advanced armor will be the norm for maxxed-out combatants.
Some general observations:
- With the exceptions of the Kashyyykian Wookiee armors and the Ithorian Defender (Battle) armor, all equivalent-level suits ofarmor (basic/standard/advanced) will require the same aggregate number of organic and inorganicresources.
- Under the new system, a single suit of Advanced Assault, Battle, or Recon Armorwill require 1580 organic resource units. This is 14.5% of the total resource requirements.
Currently, a single suit of Advanced Composite requires 210 creature-harvested resources, or 4.3% of the total. The new system triples the influence of creature-harvested resources, and the numerical increaseis 652%.
However, a suit of Advanced Padded currently requires 1515 organic resource units, meaning a numericalincrease of 4%. Furthermore, a suit of Advanced Kashyyykian Hunting Armor currently requires941 creature-harvested organic resources, while a suit of any Wookiee armor in the new system will require 1540 creature-harvested organic resources, for an increase of 64%. - Under the new system, excluding tailored panels and cloths, the aggregate resource requirement for a maximum factory production of 29 suits of quadruple-energy-layered advanced armor is 376,445 resource units. Currently, a maximum factory run of46 suits of triple-energy-layered advanced composite requires 225,262 resource units. So, we will be able to make 63% of the armor for 167% ofthe resources.
The last bullet point above is the crux of the problem, and it means one of two things -- either we must accept a serious reduction in our earnings potential, or the price of armor will skyrocket. Why? Follow along.
Let's assume that I currently charge 350,000-credits per full suit of armor. If I can make 46 suits in a "run," and assuming all 46 suits sold in a timely fashion, I can expect 16.1 Million credits ofincome from the resources, time, and effort.
Post-CURB, my income needs will not change -- I still have to pay maintenance, buy resources, fund my spice habits, and all other manner of in-game needs. If anything, they would likely increase, but for the purposes of this exercise, we'll assume that they won't. Furthermore, my rational expectation is that my net earnings potential will remain constant. Thus, I must restructure my prices so that I realize the same profit for my resources, time, and effort that I earned in the previous system -- I must convert that 16.1Mcr.
Because I am now using 67% more resources for the same effect, I can multiply my price by 1.67, but this assumes that all resources are equal in value. (Clearly they are not -- the added organic and rare resource requirements should easily increase the 1.67multiplier.) Due to the changed system, I am now also less productive with my time and resources, as I can only make 63% of my previous stock for the same effort. (Thisassumes that the total factory times for a "run" remain relatively constant from the old system to the new.) To retain the same "hourly wage," I divide my price by 0.63.
Having now accounted for the increased resources and decreased productivity, we see that in order for me to retain the same earning potential in the new system as in the old, I must increase my price by 265%. For the hypothetical 350,000-credit suit, the new CURB price becomes 927,778-credits. Again, the new price does not even take into account the anticipated increased per-unit resource costs or the likely increase in factory time and shop overhead if one wishes to maintain a well-rounded shop, so it is entirely likely that the price could rise even further.
Are we likely to seethe price of post-CURB armor almost triple the current level over the long run? I doubt the market will bear it. An increase of 50-100% is much more likely. What thismeansis that our earning potential as armorsmiths will take a significant hit, as we'll be forced to eat the costs of decreased productivity.
Just my sleep-deprived ramblings. 
Rinviero
Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:28 am
#2
With the ranger nerf also, I can not see us getting good organic resources for less than 200cpu in the future.... so thats 300k we have to spend for each suit just on that.... hell yeah the price of armor will increase!
Ghostfurby
Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:30 am
#3
welcome to the world of the architect/shipwright?
i know, totally different, but architect have been in a similair boat of not making as much per resource required due to large requirements and a decent amount of factory item necessity
also architect & shipwright have much less repeat business 
justapilgrim
Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:59 am
#4
excellent post, I am stickying this to copy this postfor my customers later
Kesslan
Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:20 am
#6
Excellent post by the way. But I mean even if we decrease our proffits. Your still looking at a vast increase in the price of armor. If this comes to pass. The best we could hope for then would be to some how reign in the massive inflation on resources. I mean if you mine your own power using a BER13 generator. and mine all your chems/minerals/woods etc with a BER13 harvester. Your end cost is only about .2 credits.
Then people turn around and charge on average 5-200 CPU on the Bria server. With the higher end for things that are more rare.
Now obviously rarity will drive a price up regardless. But that's one hell of a proffit margin even after you count in vendor costs etc. If resource vendors start jacking up the prices. Well then its only going to get worse for those who dont make armor from stuff they entirely mined themselves. I think the best example I have is the other day some guy wanted to sell me a 100k brick of vertex gemstone that's about half as good as the server best that spawned about a month back or so that everyone mined the hell of. Recently about 500k of this 'best' vertex sold for 3 CPU. He wanted 8 CPU for his stuff which was half as good.
What may well happen. Or at least what I hope would happen if prices inflate further is people will see that costs need to be cut down across the board othrwise no one will be able to afford anything at all. As it is as an AS I've certainly met rangers and resoruce dealers who keep their prices low intentionally to try to cut down on the inflation. You dont get as rich as quickly. But then. If everyone stuck to the same ethic. You wouldnt have to. Your credits woudl go a hell of alot farther. Certainly I recall when I just started out. 100k would buy me just about any damn thing I could actually use. And then some.
Now I generally have 1-3 mil in the bank on a given day. And I cant seem to get anywhere near as far with my money figguratively speaking....
Jereck
Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:35 am
#7
Great post.
May want to link this on everyone server forum so they can see what to expect, and fear.
May want to link this on everyone server forum so they can see what to expect, and fear.
Carrion1
Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:37 am
#8
Brutus_Krylop wrote:
Having now accounted for the increased resources and decreased productivity, we see that in order for me to retain the same earning potential in the new system as in the old, I must increase my price by 265%. For the hypothetical 350,000-credit suit, the new CURB price becomes 927,778-credits. Again, the new price does not even take into account the anticipated increased per-unit resource costs or the likely increase in factory time and shop overhead if one wishes to maintain a well-rounded shop, so it is entirely likely that the price could rise even further.
Are we likely to seethe price of post-CURB armor almost triple the current level over the long run? I doubt the market will bear it. An increase of 50-100% is much more likely. What thismeansis that our earning potential as armorsmiths will take a significant hit, as we'll be forced to eat the costs of decreased productivity.
Just my sleep-deprived ramblings.
It will boil down to the laws of supply and demand, back before all the hologrinding produced a bunch of jedi's needing millions of credits to purchase Pearls and crystals, which then produced thousands of armorsmiths trying to supply thier force addiction. The number of Armorsmiths was low and server population was high.. And it was nothing for me to sell and easily get paid 1 to 1.5 million per a suit of armor, yes the market could bear it.
However, it would not last long.. Simple enough as someone else said, shipwrights and architects.. These are two professions that require a ton of resources, that managed to draw people in that had no grasp of mathmatics. Only reason this hasnt happened thus far and that armorsmith remains the highest paying profession in the game is organic resourcs.. Maybe the increase in organic resource usage and (assuming) the population being able to pull fewer hides out of critters due to it most likely taking more time to kill a single creature will keep us happily at the top of swg's fortune 500.
But i can see it becoming more of a barter game, get me 50k hides ill give you xx suits of armor.
Blixtev
Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:48 am
#9
Brutus_Krylop wrote:
It's late and I can't sleep, so what better way to pass the time than by doing some number crunching on the new armor schematics as provided by NiBorg. I'm going to assume that even with the new layering system, the advantages of quad-layering will be such that quad-layered advanced armor will be the norm for maxxed-out combatants.
Some general observations:
- With the exceptions of the Kashyyykian Wookiee armors and the Ithorian Defender (Battle) armor, all equivalent-level suits ofarmor (basic/standard/advanced) will require the same aggregate number of organic and inorganicresources.
- Under the new system, a single suit of Advanced Assault, Battle, or Recon Armorwill require 1580 organic resource units. This is 14.5% of the total resource requirements.
Currently, a single suit of Advanced Composite requires 210 creature-harvested resources, or 4.3% of the total. The new system triples the influence of creature-harvested resources, and the numerical increaseis 652%.
However, a suit of Advanced Padded currently requires 1515 organic resource units, meaning a numericalincrease of 4%. Furthermore, a suit of Advanced Kashyyykian Hunting Armor currently requires941 creature-harvested organic resources, while a suit of any Wookiee armor in the new system will require 1540 creature-harvested organic resources, for an increase of 64%.
- Under the new system, excluding tailored panels and cloths, the aggregate resource requirement for a maximum factory production of 29 suits of quadruple-energy-layered advanced armor is 376,445 resource units. Currently, a maximum factory run of46 suits of triple-energy-layered advanced composite requires 225,262 resource units. So, we will be able to make 63% of the armor for 167% ofthe resources.
The last bullet point above is the crux of the problem, and it means one of two things -- either we must accept a serious reduction in our earnings potential, or the price of armor will skyrocket. Why? Follow along.
Let's assume that I currently charge 350,000-credits per full suit of armor. If I can make 46 suits in a "run," and assuming all 46 suits sold in a timely fashion, I can expect 16.1 Million credits ofincome from the resources, time, and effort.
Post-CURB, my income needs will not change -- I still have to pay maintenance, buy resources, fund my spice habits, and all other manner of in-game needs. If anything, they would likely increase, but for the purposes of this exercise, we'll assume that they won't. Furthermore, my rational expectation is that my net earnings potential will remain constant. Thus, I must restructure my prices so that I realize the same profit for my resources, time, and effort that I earned in the previous system -- I must convert that 16.1Mcr.
Because I am now using 67% more resources for the same effect, I can multiply my price by 1.67, but this assumes that all resources are equal in value. (Clearly they are not -- the added organic and rare resource requirements should easily increase the 1.67multiplier.) Due to the changed system, I am now also less productive with my time and resources, as I can only make 63% of my previous stock for the same effort. (Thisassumes that the total factory times for a "run" remain relatively constant from the old system to the new.) To retain the same "hourly wage," I divide my price by 0.63.
Having now accounted for the increased resources and decreased productivity, we see that in order for me to retain the same earning potential in the new system as in the old, I must increase my price by 265%. For the hypothetical 350,000-credit suit, the new CURB price becomes 927,778-credits. Again, the new price does not even take into account the anticipated increased per-unit resource costs or the likely increase in factory time and shop overhead if one wishes to maintain a well-rounded shop, so it is entirely likely that the price could rise even further.
Are we likely to seethe price of post-CURB armor almost triple the current level over the long run? I doubt the market will bear it. An increase of 50-100% is much more likely. What thismeansis that our earning potential as armorsmiths will take a significant hit, as we'll be forced to eat the costs of decreased productivity.
Just my sleep-deprived ramblings.
Excellent post, I cut the number of organics in half on cores and final appearance combines, should make it to TC today or tommorrow.
JangoFett100
Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:50 am
#10
Still too many. Cut more.
Blixtev wrote:
Excellent post, I cut the number of organics in half on cores and final appearance combines, should make it to TC today or tommorrow.
_Monroe_
Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:51 am
#12
thanks blix.
Blixtev wrote:
Excellent post, I cut the number of organics in half on cores and final appearance combines, should make it to TC today or tommorrow.
Kelloch
Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:51 am
#13
Blixtev wrote:
Brutus_Krylop wrote:It's late and I can't sleep, so what better way to pass the time than by doing some number crunching on the new armor schematics as provided by NiBorg. I'm going to assume that even with the new layering system, the advantages of quad-layering will be such that quad-layered advanced armor will be the norm for maxxed-out combatants.Some general observations:
- With the exceptions of the Kashyyykian Wookiee armors and the Ithorian Defender (Battle) armor, all equivalent-level suits of armor (basic/standard/advanced) will require the same aggregate number of organic and inorganic resources.
- Under the new system, a single suit of Advanced Assault, Battle, or Recon Armor will require 1580 organic resource units. This is 14.5% of the total resource requirements.
Currently, a single suit of Advanced Composite requires 210 creature-harvested resources, or 4.3% of the total. The new system triples the influence of creature-harvested resources, and the numerical increase is 652%.
However, a suit of Advanced Padded currently requires 1515 organic resource units, meaning a numerical increase of 4%. Furthermore, a suit of Advanced Kashyyykian Hunting Armor currently requires 941 creature-harvested organic resources, while a suit of any Wookiee armor in the new system will require 1540 creature-harvested organic resources, for an increase of 64%.- Under the new system, excluding tailored panels and cloths, the aggregate resource requirement for a maximum factory production of 29 suits of quadruple-energy-layered advanced armor is 376,445 resource units. Currently, a maximum factory run of 46 suits of triple-energy-layered advanced composite requires 225,262 resource units. So, we will be able to make 63% of the armor for 167% of the resources.
The last bullet point above is the crux of the problem, and it means one of two things -- either we must accept a serious reduction in our earnings potential, or the price of armor will skyrocket. Why? Follow along.Let's assume that I currently charge 350,000-credits per full suit of armor. If I can make 46 suits in a "run," and assuming all 46 suits sold in a timely fashion, I can expect 16.1 Million credits of income from the resources, time, and effort.Post-CURB, my income needs will not change -- I still have to pay maintenance, buy resources, fund my spice habits, and all other manner of in-game needs. If anything, they would likely increase, but for the purposes of this exercise, we'll assume that they won't. Furthermore, my rational expectation is that my net earnings potential will remain constant. Thus, I must restructure my prices so that I realize the same profit for my resources, time, and effort that I earned in the previous system -- I must convert that 16.1Mcr.Because I am now using 67% more resources for the same effect, I can multiply my price by 1.67, but this assumes that all resources are equal in value. (Clearly they are not -- the added organic and rare resource requirements should easily increase the 1.67 multiplier.) Due to the changed system, I am now also less productive with my time and resources, as I can only make 63% of my previous stock for the same effort. (This assumes that the total factory times for a "run" remain relatively constant from the old system to the new.) To retain the same "hourly wage," I divide my price by 0.63.Having now accounted for the increased resources and decreased productivity, we see that in order for me to retain the same earning potential in the new system as in the old, I must increase my price by 265%. For the hypothetical 350,000-credit suit, the new CURB price becomes 927,778-credits. Again, the new price does not even take into account the anticipated increased per-unit resource costs or the likely increase in factory time and shop overhead if one wishes to maintain a well-rounded shop, so it is entirely likely that the price could rise even further.Are we likely to see the price of post-CURB armor almost triple the current level over the long run? I doubt the market will bear it. An increase of 50-100% is much more likely. What this means is that our earning potential as armorsmiths will take a significant hit, as we'll be forced to eat the costs of decreased productivity.Just my sleep-deprived ramblings.
Excellent post, I cut the number of organics in half on cores and final appearance combines, should make it to TC today or tommorrow.
Thank you.
Although I do agree its still too many.
Message Edited by Kelloch on 04-13-2005 11:53 AM
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