Armorsmith Archive
Thread: I am so tired of the 12pt/10pt stupidity
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Biseks
Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:50 am
#1
I'm not starting a fight here, just speaking up. I am a 10pt smith. I make good armor. 80 Kinetic 65/66 base pre-slice is good armor. If i'm right, on a brilliant slice, that could be 80/85 armor. Alot of 12pt seem to have the same attitude as the "uber l33t" combats. Well jam it. I do a good business because I make good armor and sell for a decent price. Can I compete with the 12pt Smiths? YES! And I do on a regular basis. There are at least 5 12pt smiths near my shop and I always sell out of my armor. Do I have the same customers? Doubtful. Do my customers come to me for the same thing they would see a 12pt for? No. I serve the community in a different way than the 12pt and thats how I compete. Its all about the market. I am just tired of hearing, from the 10pts, "how do i compete, wahhhhhh!!!!!!" You compete like anyone else, find a market, do good work, and reap the rewards. DONE!
The new thing from a 12pt I just read is that he is pissed because of all the time and money to get his extra 2 pts and now the CU is going to make that irelevant, or close to. I as a 10pt agree. He should be pissed. WE ALL SHOULD BE. But don't intimate that its because a bunch of 10pts pissed and moaned about it. We're getting shafted too. You really believe we want simple experimentation? You really believe we want to destroy the whole AS system for the sake of 2 pts? WRONG!!! This is happeneing to ALL Armorsmiths dood. Not just you and yer extra 2 pts. Get a clue and join in to help us stop this silliness.
Please, if yer gonna flame, make sure you only skimmed the above and took it all personally.
Biseks
BAD Biseks Armor Depot
Chilastra
10PT and proud of it.
The new thing from a 12pt I just read is that he is pissed because of all the time and money to get his extra 2 pts and now the CU is going to make that irelevant, or close to. I as a 10pt agree. He should be pissed. WE ALL SHOULD BE. But don't intimate that its because a bunch of 10pts pissed and moaned about it. We're getting shafted too. You really believe we want simple experimentation? You really believe we want to destroy the whole AS system for the sake of 2 pts? WRONG!!! This is happeneing to ALL Armorsmiths dood. Not just you and yer extra 2 pts. Get a clue and join in to help us stop this silliness.
Please, if yer gonna flame, make sure you only skimmed the above and took it all personally.
Biseks
BAD Biseks Armor Depot
Chilastra
10PT and proud of it.
Aynianu
Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:12 am
#2
Some armour types you really want 12 pt for, eg: anything that will use 3 different layers you will want to be 12 pt so as not to fall down on the resists and/or base resist. Also stun resist armour is the same.
However if you make the right armour types you can get by as a 10pt without any noticable difference to a 12pt
I actually am a bit unsure if the difference between 10 and 12 pt should be as big as it is though. Some crafting proffessions make a huge difference with those extra 2 experimentation points, where some make very little difference, some make no difference at all. Just a thought.
In any case 12pt armoursmith is really not a problem to get, its just a few credits for a few tapes, if AS is your first proffession youve really played, it can take a while to get established before getting to 12 point, but its like getting a few extra AS skill boxes, its part of being a master armoursmith, its no badge of honour, its just something you need to get (and everyone does really)
I would not cry if they removed the need for tapes to be honest, it would mean i dont have to change outfits so often and could craft with my grand ball gown or something similar on
However if you make the right armour types you can get by as a 10pt without any noticable difference to a 12pt
I actually am a bit unsure if the difference between 10 and 12 pt should be as big as it is though. Some crafting proffessions make a huge difference with those extra 2 experimentation points, where some make very little difference, some make no difference at all. Just a thought.
In any case 12pt armoursmith is really not a problem to get, its just a few credits for a few tapes, if AS is your first proffession youve really played, it can take a while to get established before getting to 12 point, but its like getting a few extra AS skill boxes, its part of being a master armoursmith, its no badge of honour, its just something you need to get (and everyone does really)
I would not cry if they removed the need for tapes to be honest, it would mean i dont have to change outfits so often and could craft with my grand ball gown or something similar on
Ruebacca
Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:51 am
#3
As a leader of the 12pt/10pt stupidity. Your right. Its a general AS exp nerf.
Coupling protectin directly with HAM is no fun. 10pts, 12pts or 7pts. I made alot of fun armor as a 7 pts smith and its sold well on the bazzar.
Your also right about being a 12pt smith and being uncleaver. I see that too. But 10pts and uncleaver, I see more of that.
Coupling protectin directly with HAM is no fun. 10pts, 12pts or 7pts. I made alot of fun armor as a 7 pts smith and its sold well on the bazzar.
Your also right about being a 12pt smith and being uncleaver. I see that too. But 10pts and uncleaver, I see more of that.
Kesslan
Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:31 am
#4
Aye. As I've said in other posts. When I was still a 10 point smith I hit 66 base easily with 80 kin. And even managed to pull off 68 with only 10 points. Sure I didnt have 80 Kinetic/Energy/Electricity. But my HAM was about the same. And the resists not much lower. Slice it and you wont even know the difference. Hell get a really good slice. And it'll even be better because you'll hit that 90 basecap instead of 80 cap with specials.
There's an attraction to both types of armor. For those that dont want as much risk. Go for the 12pt suit with the tripple or quad 80's. THen even if you get an encumberance or plain old crappy slice. Wont matter.
For those that like to gamble abit more. Go for that 10pt or 11pt suit.
And its not like its hard to join a guild (Many often cry out for their own AS or two) and just go to them and say hey look. You guys give me any AS tapes you loot. And I'll give you armor for free. Afterall if your selling it on the side. It's easy to pay back for the resources and take the long term chunk out of yoru resources to be making such as such a guildie free armor for life or some such thing.
God knows my guild has been wonderfully supportive. Any AS tapes they get they give to me. Any time there's a really good resource spawn I just put out a guild mail and post to our form. Hey look there's this really kilelr spawn. Here's a fewwaypoints could you please drop harvesters for me. And they will. At their cost to boot. And in returnany armor they need they get. Now and then they still pay me for the armor jsut because I still have to buy tons of natural resources and the like. But as a whole the guild tends to share the costs with it's crafters and we all wind up benifiting.
Not all guilds are like that of course but still. There are some that are. And even without their help I'd still have eventually made 12pt. It would have just taken me alot longer to do so. My armor quality wouldnt have increased quite so quickly. But due to alot of good spawns lately it still would have gotten better with time. It was hardly an unrealistic goal. And its one thing I find alot of combat proffs lack in CU... an end goal that isnt met in a few weeks.
If you do nothing but grind out yoru template. Your done there unless you start swappign all the time. So what else is there left to do in SWG? Be a loot whore, and chat with friends. Not too much else. Sure there's a few RP guilds out there and the like. But their few and far between. And SWG doesnt make for the best RP setting with people spamming like mad etc.
Thula
Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:35 pm
#5
Totally agree Bisek!
Resources is the key, not 10 or 12pt. For the most part it would only affect encumbrance, which most of the customers didnt care about anyway. Granted, for high end Stun Comp or Triple/Quad Comp, you would need 12pt for the best result. But noone has ever said that a 10pt should be able to do everything...
Find your market niche, sell at a price that people will buy and make a profit like everyone else.
1M1Alex
Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:54 pm
#6
5 stars ***** for you sir. Excellent post. I'm a 12 point and I still make low 60's base/80 Kinetic armor for people who've been with me since the beginning. It's cheap and effective. I fear the cheap part won't really be possible after the CU though.
baube
Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:21 pm
#7
as a 10 pointer, i could hit 80kin 70% base comp, which does sell well, though an extra 2 points in HAM would be nice, most people didnt pay any attention because of buffs, a 10 pt AS can compete with a 12 pt AS in that regard, however, if you are making Stun composite, or Interwoven RIS, well, if you are a 10 pt AS, you are gonna have alot more trouble, as the extra 2 points in every crafting stage makes a difference in special protection with stun, like hitting ~20% instead of ~30% stun protection while still hitting 68 or 69% base, and hitting seriuosly low HAM with interwoven RIS and still hitting 75-80% base. with good NS layers and janta hides and red geo cubes, you can feasibly hit 80% across the board and have 2 of 3 HAM stats in RIS be zero. thats the type of stuff an AS is most proud of, and without the extra 2 pts, you really cant make a competitive product in those 2 areas. still can craft it, justwont be as good. no reason though, that a dilligent 10 pt AS cant make millions daily as long as he puts in the time and is smart about what they make, you are correct.
as far as the stun goes though, i personally feel that with a psg, 4-6% stun is sufficient on everything but helmet, makes a superior product, but it just doesnt sell as well.../sigh
hope this doesnt come off sounding like a flame, as i agree with you mostly, like in any profession, a non speed capped swordsman with a 600 dam PH can still have alot of fun, but i gotta say, being speed capped with a 1000+ dam PH has its merits also, and the speed capped swordsmen with those 1k hammers would be upset too if they dropped the speed cap and said powerhammers can only do 500 damage now, hope that puts it into perspective a bit
baube
Biseks
Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:16 pm
#9
Don't get me wrong folks, I know the difference 2pts can make. Expecially in Stun and RIS interwoven, but also in other areas. I am simply addressing the annoying habit of 1 group messing with the other. For crying out loud, we are all Smiths and we obviously all love it. When I get my extra 2 pts, should they matter, I will be in a new area of having fun. Stun comp is hard to make, as pointed out, without those 2 pts. I could make good stuff, but not great stuff. I like to make great stuff whenever possible
Biseks
Biseks
Meplorium
Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:28 pm
#11
I guess if you have 12 point envy you are dancing around laughing at the 12 point smiths. If you are a 12 point smith that has work hard to get to that level, it isn't easy and not everyone can do so, hence the 10 point smiths, then you fill jaded do to being nerfed. Not only that but if you put in the labor to get those 12 points you really liked armorsmith. It isn't all about the points as much as this crafting game is leaving for good. Armorsmith is simply no longer armorsmith, 10 point or 12 point. I suppose the only reason the 10 pointers don't have the same bitter taste in their mouths over losing their game they enjoyed is because they are too busy dancing and laughing at the 12 pointers. That is what I truely find stupid, being blinded by ones own envy so they do not notice that they too are losing something.
I suggest you think about this, the game you aspire to master at a higher level than you are currently at, has just been changed to the point where you can no longer aspire to that level. You have in fact been reduced to a lootconverting monkey just like everyone else. It's like the poor starving man laughing at all the successful people on armageddon day because they are running around in a panic right before they die. The poor starving man gets his life stomped out just like everyone else becauseDeath simply does not care who you are, it treats you just the same.
Biseks
Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:44 pm
#12
Meplorium wrote:I guess if you have 12 point envy you are dancing around laughing at the 12 point smiths. If you are a 12 point smith that has work hard to get to that level, it isn't easy and not everyone can do so, hence the 10 point smiths, then you fill jaded do to being nerfed. Not only that but if you put in the labor to get those 12 points you really liked armorsmith. It isn't all about the points as much as this crafting game is leaving for good. Armorsmith is simply no longer armorsmith, 10 point or 12 point. I suppose the only reason the 10 pointers don't have the same bitter taste in their mouths over losing their game they enjoyed is because they are too busy dancing and laughing at the 12 pointers. That is what I truely find stupid, being blinded by ones own envy so they do not notice that they too are losing something.I suggest you think about this, the game you aspire to master at a higher level than you are currently at, has just been changed to the point where you can no longer aspire to that level. You have in fact been reduced to a loot converting monkey just like everyone else. It's like the poor starving man laughing at all the successful people on armageddon day because they are running around in a panic right before they die. The poor starving man gets his life stomped out just like everyone else because Death simply does not care who you are, it treats you just the same.
Wow. Thats tragic on so many levels. I aspired to be a 12pt smith. Why? Because I know what the differences were and where they took place. For those who MAY lose status, thats why we're testing. To present a unified front of information and useful observations to the DEVs at large and get them to reconsider should it prove proper that there still be a place for tapes. I did say, however, that it wasn't a priority for me ONLY because I still made good armor and it sold to a niche market.
I will always be the last person to mock the loss of a market gain. I am a capitalist. While you may think I am laughing, you would be wrong. What I mock is the 12pt who says there is no room for a 10pt. They are irrelevent. All I posted was to the stupidity of that attitude. At the end of the day, we 10pts kept the 12pts from wasting their precious time and resources from making less than excellent PvP narmor, and to a lesser extent, making what MIGHT be considered by those who are truly Masters, grind armor. Personally, I like 12pts because as a rule, not hard and fast, they don't like to dabble in grind armor. Thats my market thankyou, and I like it.
In offerance to your feeling of the "nerf" I say this, you have no clue. Niether do I. With 3 weeks, roughly, remining in the BETA, maybe Meplorium you should join us in testing and apply yerself to helping get the DEVs to change thier minds about experimentation, if not also the tapes issue. It's up to you as it is me. That's the whole point of an open BETA I think.
Biseks
BAD Biseks Armor Depot
Dantooine, Locke Nirut
Chilastra
Message Edited by Biseks on 04-14-2005 02:46 AM
Wallid
Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:52 pm
#13
Biseks wrote:
I'm not starting a fight here, just speaking up. I am a 10pt smith. I make good armor. 80 Kinetic 65/66 base pre-slice is good armor. If i'm right, on a brilliant slice, that could be 80/85 armor. Alot of 12pt seem to have the same attitude as the "uber l33t" combats. Well jam it. I do a good business because I make good armor and sell for a decent price. Can I compete with the 12pt Smiths? YES! And I do on a regular basis. There are at least 5 12pt smiths near my shop and I always sell out of my armor. Do I have the same customers? Doubtful. Do my customers come to me for the same thing they would see a 12pt for? No. I serve the community in a different way than the 12pt and thats how I compete. Its all about the market. I am just tired of hearing, from the 10pts, "how do i compete, wahhhhhh!!!!!!" You compete like anyone else, find a market, do good work, and reap the rewards. DONE!
The new thing from a 12pt I just read is that he is pissed because of all the time and money to get his extra 2 pts and now the CU is going to make that irelevant, or close to. I as a 10pt agree. He should be pissed. WE ALL SHOULD BE. But don't intimate that its because a bunch of 10pts pissed and moaned about it. We're getting shafted too. You really believe we want simple experimentation? You really believe we want to destroy the whole AS system for the sake of 2 pts? WRONG!!! This is happeneing to ALL Armorsmiths dood. Not just you and yer extra 2 pts. Get a clue and join in to help us stop this silliness.
Please, if yer gonna flame, make sure you only skimmed the above and took it all personally.
Biseks
BAD Biseks Armor Depot
Chilastra
10PT and proud of it.
word up ma bortha
I don't care about 10pt, 11pt, 12pt, far point, needle point, what ever, Just caraft n sell. Nuts, if you sell good stuff, at a desent price where your not short changing your self, or your sources, yet not price gouging (sp) the customer, You'l make great money. Said it once in here, my Wookie hunting armor is way better then my composite armor, so I focus on my Hairy friends, toss in suits of Ithorian ( their out there man).
I seariously wish I could get a business degree off these games from crafting and merchanting. you learn ALOT that can be applied to the real world. And the real world has things that can be applied to this game.
For all your Field Protections needs (as well as Reb Master Munitions Crafter ).
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