Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Does Anyone REALLY remember what made players UBER in PvE?? (I promise not to use bright color type)
Page 1 of 2
WarriorCode
Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:28 pm
#1
Lets be real here folks...the devs are nerfing Armorsmith and well...crafting all together. Why have they moved med crafting to BE, cause there are exponentially fewer BE's then medics or docs and so if you want that crafting capability...you will need to get BE, which with the new CU shoul dsupply SOE with atleast 2 more months of your money.
But seriously...back to my title point, MELEE AND RANGED MITIGATION MADE THE GAME EASY...not armor. Any of you who have a crafter without melee mitigation, put on a suit of your best80% composite armor and go stand next to a Krayt, which seems to be a the head of the "boo hoo the game is too easy with UBER armor" arguement. I bet you last all of about 5-7 minutes, even with a buff. So why didn' they just nerf mitigation instead? It would have a similiar effect to what the devsapparently are shooting for, and the players who spent the time and the creds making armor would still have their enjoyment. Finally,the devs would continue to enjoy the false sense of superiority that is apparently necessary for their existance given the extent of the nerfs and the re-write they are disguising as an expansion anda "little upgrade." Would have been a heck of a lot easier given they ADDED mitigation with about a 1 meg patch.
So it could not have just been he need for "balancing." I think it is something altogether different. I think the development team has decided they no longer want crafting in the game, at least to the extent of the fully player driven economy. These new stims, armor, buffs foods remind me more of what came out of the Horadric Cube in Diablo II rather then a skilled craft trade composed of both knowing what resources to use, and how to experiment with them.
So I ask the devs again, like I have in numerous posts before. TELL US WHAT YOUR VISION IS FOR THIS GAME. YOU OBVIOUSLY ARE MAKING A PARADIGM SHIFT AWAY FROM AN MMORPG WITH FULL PLAYER RUN ECONOMY AND SEEM TO BE MOVING TOWARDS THE FIRST PERSON SHOOTER ONLINE. (FYI...IF I WANTED TO PLAYUNREAL TOURNAMENT I WOULD JUST LOAD MY COPY AGAIN).
THIS COMBAT UPGRADE IS TO SWG AS JAR JAR BINKS IS TO THE STAR WARS EPIC....ANNOYING, WORTHLESS TO THE PLOT, DUMBED DOWN, AND WELL....JUST PLAIN WRONG
Cianhydle
Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:11 am
#3
I will agree that mitigation played a huge role in making players "uber" in PvE.
There's also two other important considerations:
First, buffs allowed players to wear the extraordinarily heavy armor without any penalty. There is no way a character could have worn 3 pieces of standard-weight composite and used 2 specials without killing themself. Buffs took us from 30% base to 90% base.
Second, the developers never considered the end result of 18 months of hording the best resources. I was never a massive-production smith, but I've sold well over 2,000 suits of armor. Know what? I'm used maybe half of my solid petrochemical from 5 heavy mineral extractors that were put on a 96% spot for a full spawn. What about the large-scale manufacturers who had 30 harvesters on that spawn for the same time? I haven't bothered harvesting in months, unless the spawn was remarkably better (can't get much better than what I already have.) This wasn't as big of a deal as buffs, whichtotally dumbed down the whole HAM cost of armor.
Renea,
DeQuosaek
Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:16 am
#4
Eh, armor that blocks 80% ofmost types of damage isn't overpowered? I play a smith in SWG (on my alt) and I disagree. 80% armor is simply too strong. And the buffs were too.
I'm not sure I agree 100% with the way they sort of dumbed down armor crafting, butthe resistancesdefinitely needed to be brought down a notch. People will still want it and you can still craft it. They're not trying to edge you out of the game. Players who spent their time and money making armor can continue to do so, only now there are many more types to make (that will actually sell) instead of simply different types of composite.
TitanTen
Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:28 am
#5
the point isnt that 80% armor wasn't too strong it was that you CANT wear it without buffs and not kill yourself. I swear no one remembers pre-buff fighting. Try it sometime. I wear a 3 peice mini-suit when im not buffed... Gloves, boots, chest and I have to heal every 2 specials with my powerhammer. The problem with armor did not start until AFTER buffs started to gain popularity and totaly negated encumbrance.
DeQuosaek wrote:
Eh, armor that blocks 80% ofmost types of damage isn't overpowered? I play a smith in SWG (on my alt) and I disagree. 80% armor is simply too strong. And the buffs were too.
I'm not sure I agree 100% with the way they sort of dumbed down armor crafting, butthe resistancesdefinitely needed to be brought down a notch. People will still want it and you can still craft it. They're not trying to edge you out of the game. Players who spent their time and money making armor can continue to do so, only now there are many more types to make (that will actually sell) instead of simply different types of composite.
Cianhydle
Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:37 am
#6
I swear no one remembers pre-buff fighting.
I remembers! Ah, good times. Oooootini! You could migrate, spice, and power boost and slip into composite... barely! And this was non-advanced, encumbrance experimented composite with (luckily) 30%.
Renea, Tempest
DeQuosaek
Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:51 am
#7
TitanTen wrote:
the point isnt that 80% armor wasn't too strong it was that you CANT wear it without buffs and not kill yourself. I swear no one remembers pre-buff fighting. Try it sometime. I wear a 3 peice mini-suit when im not buffed... Gloves, boots, chest and I have to heal every 2 specials with my powerhammer. The problem with armor did not start until AFTER buffs started to gain popularity and totaly negated encumbrance.
I hear ya. I remember pre-buff fighting very fondly. It's much more enjoyable. And I just took up Carbineer a few months back, so I know all about not being able to do many specials while wearing armor unbuffed. Heck, a Carbineer can hardly use specials while naked. But all the same, I think 80% armor is too strong regardless of anything else. 
*edit* I wore mostly Ubese in those days. I didn't see the need for Composite against creatures. And really, a good set of bone was pretty decent against energy weapons. And since you could switch at the drop of a hat it was pretty easy to manage.
Message Edited by DeQuosaek on 04-09-2005 11:53 AM
Cianhydle
Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:36 pm
#8
It was all out of whack.
Yup, I agree. However, if you just had a buffs and mitigation you could still fight in god mode. Substitute 80% armor for buffs, you could not fight in god mode because 1). you would kill yourself with specials and 2). you probably could wear the armor.
Back before buffs there was a situation where a character could tank a creature but not perform specials while other character stood back and spammed specials while doctors healed the tank. It wasn't broke. Buffs broke the game; not armor. 80% armor was merely icing on the god-mode cake. 90% armor was the little sprinkles on the icing.
Renea,
Kelloch
Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:45 pm
#9
TitanTen wrote:the point isnt that 80% armor wasn't too strong it was that you CANT wear it without buffs and not kill yourself. I swear no one remembers pre-buff fighting. Try it sometime. I wear a 3 peice mini-suit when im not buffed... Gloves, boots, chest and I have to heal every 2 specials with my powerhammer. The problem with armor did not start until AFTER buffs started to gain popularity and totaly negated encumbrance.
DeQuosaek wrote:Eh, armor that blocks 80% of most types of damage isn't overpowered? I play a smith in SWG (on my alt) and I disagree. 80% armor is simply too strong. And the buffs were too.I'm not sure I agree 100% with the way they sort of dumbed down armor crafting, but the resistances definitely needed to be brought down a notch. People will still want it and you can still craft it. They're not trying to edge you out of the game. Players who spent their time and money making armor can continue to do so, only now there are many more types to make (that will actually sell) instead of simply different types of composite.
I agree completely. We would have never been making 80% armor if the buffs hadn't come around like they did. Instead we would have cared more about encumbrance and sacrificed resists for encumbrance. People would have made decision such as give me an 80% chest, but reduce encumbrance on everything else. Choices would have been made. You would have been okay when hit in the chest, but here comes a head shot and boom...you would have been scrambling.
Jediknight2k1
Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:10 pm
#10
It was a combination of things.
Melee Migitation, 2600 buffs, 90% base sliced kinetic armor, 800 damage power hammers, 2000 max damage looted t21's and the list goes on.
One thing for sure it is not just 80% kin comp armor. If you wear 80% kin comp with any melee def or migitation then you will die quite fast to the larger mobs(krayts, kimos etc).
NalaniKonomohu
Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:23 pm
#11
Jesse James said it best on a bike special on Discovery Channel "If im working on something and it takes me 3...4 months to build, and it turns out like crap, ill take it outside and beat it with a sledge hammer"
Devs... take his advice with the crafting system in the CRUD, i mean CURB.
SinfulDoom
Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:52 pm
#12
lol, they arent going to drop kick this DE-Grade. I their eyes they have spent too much money developing it even if it means they loose their a$$'s because people will be dropping accounts.
CURB- Combat Upgrade Re-Balance
CURD- Combat Upgrade Re-Duction
Quality Stims*Meds*Cures*CM Products
KOBO Industries (-1675 2500 Naboo) Starsider
V 12 pt. Master Doctor V 11 pt. MasterCMV
Kobo Doomshadow President
NalaniKonomohu
Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:13 pm
#13
whats worse, to lose your @$$ as you put it and ditch this escalating committmentor to take a short term hit to profits by not appealing to a temporary fan base (soley driven off the new interest in Episode III *Of which all of the current players wanted content from lmfao*)?Investing in long term growth is pretty much the foundation of any profitable company. I guess this is what happens when you hire kids just out of college to generate *great* ideas; they know all and can do no wrong /shrug.
Devs, if your gonna go off and hire some people to help with your monster you have created /pointat Valve & Valve's Community of Modders
Message Edited by NalaniKonomohu on 04-09-2005 03:14 PM
Page 1 of 2