CUEmu - Thread Posts

Grimhand

Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:46 am

Hi -

Last night I was doing a lot of kinetic layers, trying to squeeze out a layer with some good H/A/M. I experimented on the Resistance - one point at a time - hoping to get two Amazing Success!! (AS!!!) and thus have an extra point for Durability.

I made many attempts. In those where I got one AS!!! or two AS!!!, I was not able to create a layer schematic that appear to be any different from one where I got all Great Success!! during experimentation.

I've checked the excellent FAQ, but could not find any good explanation on mechanicsof AS!!!.

Any comments?

Izu - Master Scounter

Ryche_Mykola

Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:33 am

#2

It gives a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

Seriously though, I don't know, its just better than a critical though!

Ryche Mykola
Outer Rim Collective (ORC) High Council

Ariakus Mykola
Outer Rim Collective Master Rifleman
Cancelled accounts for Wow

Happymob

Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:34 am

#3

A great success increases an experimentation line by 7%. An amazing success simply increases it by 8%. The actual cap for a line is set by resource quality and is not changed by the quality of your success, so in many cases getting an amazing success doesn't actually help.

An example:

Suppose that you had resources that are 80% of optimal (meaning you can experiment the line up to 80%). You would start experimentation somewhere around 24%. Normally, you would need8 "great successes" to move the line to 80% (experimenting one point at a time). An amazing success on on 3 of the first 7 experimentats would still leave you only at 76%, so an 8th point would still be required to max out the line.

The only way in this case to max out the line in 7 points is to up the points used and get 2 amazing successes in a row (you can't do it in one shot because it would only let you put 6 points into the line in the first shot). So an amazing 6-point success would push it to 72% and a subsequent 1-point amazing would push it to 80%. It might be worth doing something like this on products where you don't mind making multiple attempts (and it might be a lot of attempts). Or it might be worth getting that first 6 point amazing, a subsequent 1 point great and leave the line at 79%, just short of being maxed out.

There are times, of course where it is simpler to save that point. If you had 83% resources, you would start around 25%. This would require 9 great success roles. Or 6 great successes and 2 amazing successes (again, this is 1 point at a time which is often not the best way to experiment).

Imadoh and Ikiecobi
Quality Resources and the Corellia Butcher - NoCo
NoCo Trade Center, Corellia (just northeast of Coronet) 796, -3076

Dova

Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:45 am

#4

Rule number One. If you experiment one point at a time an Amazing Success is wasted.

Rule Number Two. Always, always, experiment four (4) points at a time. Hre's how it works mathematically. You experiment four points twice in a row and get great successes. You've just experimented 8 times with 7% improvement each time for a total of 56% improvement. On the next layer you experimentfour pointstwice in arow andget two amazing successes yielding 8 times with 8% improvement each time for a total of 64% improvement. You've just gained an extra point to experiment on another line.

That is how Amazing Successes help the crafter. They don't go over the bounds that are created by the qualities of the resources but they can give a 10 point crafter essentially 11 points to experiment.

Hope this helped.

Dova Vachy

Slider067

Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:18 pm

#5

Drummerboychris wrote:

There is some interdependancy among the lines when it comes to crafting certain things. Failures are all over the road, along with moderate, but for amazing and greats, they will not affect the other lines. A few issues you may see include that special on composite does nothing, and that experimenting the durability bar (composite) after the quality, will sometimes show an increase in special protection.

Explanations:

1) Special bar on composite does nothing ever since they messed with the way electricity was treated in composite. It is broken, and has been for quite some time, but it is the only armor to be so. Raising the base in the final combine raises the special protection; something no other armor does. This is a result of a very early on mistake the devs made with electrical protections acting as layers in the segment. Don't expect this to be ever fixed.

2) The numbers aren't really increasing... They are like this when you experiment on the quality. It is also a result of the problem described in #1. Since base affects special in composite, the system "lags" one step. by putting one point into any other line after doing quality, the system adjusts all the stats to be correct.

So basically, there isn't any reason why a great sucess would actually change another line. It's all an optical illusion

1 - Experimenting on the special line during the final combine will raise condition. It also provides a bump to the special resists one time.

2 - That would explain the "one time" bump to specials.

__________________________________________
Slyder, FS Master Crafter, 12point maker of brand-X armor 2894 5097 Tatooine
Come shop at SPS...it's just as good as the next guy's...
For a small fee, I'll train your chimpanzee how to make armor under the new system

Slider067

Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:23 pm

#6

Preloaded wrote:

Directed @ Dova

Last I checked an amazing success while working with four experimentation points doesn't necesarily translate to all four points recieveing a amazing rating. Although I may be wrong.

On my retired Bio Engineer I used to do that exact thing when i noticed something strange. Four points into experimentation which resulted in a great success. Looking at the raised statistics in the output window a different unrelated stat was increased and another unrelated stat decreased. The BE's of the forums would translate this behavior as that which results from a "failed" experimentation. However, while crafting I only experimented 6 points into physique (4 shot great success 2 shot great success to max) and saved the remaining exp points to keep CLVL down.

My question: Is there something special about amazing successes that causes it to apply to all experiments done in that "round" that does not apply to moderate/completefail/great?

And if it is retroactive to other experimetns done in that round why not experimetn 8 at a time? You'd double your chances at a 8 pt amazing would you not? (one amazing ismore likely than two I would think).

Message Edited by Preloaded on 06-24-2004 12:06 PM

I think your refering to experimenting on the HAM during layer construction? (if not, this is where I see strange things).

I believe the UT is taken into the equation for this. That experimentation line is not only used for HAM, but condition as well. If you have good OQ and MA, but a low UT, you'll get strange results when you break the barrier of OQ+UT, but are within the bounds of OQ+MA.

__________________________________________
Slyder, FS Master Crafter, 12point maker of brand-X armor 2894 5097 Tatooine
Come shop at SPS...it's just as good as the next guy's...
For a small fee, I'll train your chimpanzee how to make armor under the new system

Tirgwystraff

Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:08 pm

#7

Dova has it correct. 4 point amazing not only gives you a free experimentation point, but isSTRONGER than an 8 point amazing. The best way to see this is in the final combine for ubese parts. Try getting 2 4 point amazings in a row. It will fill all 10 points in the special line. HOWEVER, if you do 8 points at once, and get an amazing, you'll only fill 9. I still got the same 76% final ( and 77% after resources improved), but it came out one bubble shy of filling. Doesn't make a difference there, so went 8 points anyway, but it does when experimenting layers, and other armors.

I know, I have constantly heard, 7% vs 8%, but this isn't always true. It is most obvious in ubese, andNON advanced maberi segments ( extremely important there, as it can now take up to 14 points to fill the base there). ( On TC2, I made several non adv segments to see if the jedi crafting was in, and it wasn't, however, even for a 500+ oq/ 900+ sr duralloy, 10 points still left 4 boxes open in base).

Newmoon Tirgwystraff
Resident of Mr. Ploppy's Turtle-Flavored Ice Cream Kingdom
" English doesn't borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over, and goes through their pockets for loose grammer. "

Grimhand

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:00 am

#8

I bow to the infinite wisdom of the Armorsmith community.

Thank you, all. Wonderful explanations - should be put into FAQ, in my humble opinion.

Izu - Master Scounter

Preloaded

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:05 am

#9

Directed @ Dova

Last I checked an amazing success while working with four experimentation points doesn't necesarily translate to all four points recieveing a amazing rating. Although I may be wrong.

On my retired Bio Engineer I used to do that exact thing when i noticed something strange. Four points into experimentation which resulted in a great success. Looking at the raised statistics in the output window a different unrelated stat was increased and another unrelated stat decreased. The BE's of the forums would translate this behavior as that which results from a "failed" experimentation. However, while crafting I only experimented 6 points into physique (4 shot great success 2 shot great success to max) and saved the remaining exp points to keep CLVL down.

My question: Is there something special about amazing successes that causes it to apply to all experiments done in that "round" that does not apply to moderate/completefail/great?

And if it is retroactive to other experimetns done in that round why not experimetn 8 at a time? You'd double your chances at a 8 pt amazing would you not? (one amazing ismore likely than two I would think).

Message Edited by Preloaded on 06-24-2004 12:06 PM

Spyndel Vellack

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ No Credits $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

Radiant's Poorest Armorsmith

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ No Problem $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

...omg!?! you are teh lose!...

Drummerboychris

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:34 am

#10

The mathmatical best way to do it, is 7 points at a time. beacuse 7 points times 8% is 56% (amazing). 8 points times 7% is also 56% (great). But with amazing, you've just gotten the same % with one less point, thus allowing you to experiment more with this extra point. This is just basic rule of thumb for gaining extra points while crafting. The math gets more complicated if you only need 2 or 3% more...

][ KIRADON RENNEKE ][

_____________________________________________

][ Gotama & KyboRenneke - Eclipse =!=!= Manabi Renneke - Bria ][

][ Blaine Renneke - Naritus =!=!= Govinda Renneke - Ahazi ][

][ Aged Citizen - Lowca =!=!= Sinn vonBeasterhausen - Bloodfin ][

___________________________________________________

Proud Family of the Alliance

Preloaded

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:38 am

#11

<-- Stupid.

Spyndel Vellack

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ No Credits $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

Radiant's Poorest Armorsmith

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ No Problem $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

...omg!?! you are teh lose!...

Slider067

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:47 am

#12

Also keep in mind the goal you're trying to reach.

It may not benifit you at all to have a 7 point amazing, when a 3 point one will do the trick.

For example...you need to reach 85% experimentation and all greats get you to 82% (then another point to hit 85). For you to reach 85%, you only need 3% more. In this case, I'd use 3 point experiments. You have more chances at hitting the goal.

__________________________________________
Slyder, FS Master Crafter, 12point maker of brand-X armor 2894 5097 Tatooine
Come shop at SPS...it's just as good as the next guy's...
For a small fee, I'll train your chimpanzee how to make armor under the new system

Drummerboychris

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:47 am

#13

Preloaded wrote:

Directed @ Dova

Last I checked an amazing success while working with four experimentation points doesn't necesarily translate to all four points recieveing a amazing rating. Although I may be wrong.

On my retired Bio Engineer I used to do that exact thing when i noticed something strange. Four points into experimentation which resulted in a great success. Looking at the raised statistics in the output window a different unrelated stat was increased and another unrelated stat decreased. The BE's of the forums would translate this behavior as that which results from a "failed" experimentation. However, while crafting I only experimented 6 points into physique (4 shot great success 2 shot great success to max) and saved the remaining exp points to keep CLVL down.

My question: Is there something special about amazing successes that causes it to apply to all experiments done in that "round" that does not apply to moderate/completefail/great?

And if it is retroactive to other experimetns done in that round why not experimetn 8 at a time? You'd double your chances at a 8 pt amazing would you not? (one amazing ismore likely than two I would think).

There is some interdependancy among the lines when it comes to crafting certain things. Failures are all over the road, along with moderate, but for amazing and greats, they will not affect the other lines. A few issues you may see include that special on composite does nothing, and that experimenting the durability bar (composite) after the quality, will sometimes show an increase in special protection.

Explanations:

1) Special bar on composite does nothing ever since they messed with the way electricity was treated in composite. It is broken, and has been for quite some time, but it is the only armor to be so. Raising the base in the final combine raises the special protection; something no other armor does. This is a result of a very early on mistake the devs made with electrical protections acting as layers in the segment. Don't expect this to be ever fixed.

2) The numbers aren't really increasing... They are like this when you experiment on the quality. It is also a result of the problem described in #1. Since base affects special in composite, the system "lags" one step. by putting one point into any other line after doing quality, the system adjusts all the stats to be correct.

So basically, there isn't any reason why a great sucess would actually change another line. It's all an optical illusion

][ KIRADON RENNEKE ][

_____________________________________________

][ Gotama & KyboRenneke - Eclipse =!=!= Manabi Renneke - Bria ][

][ Blaine Renneke - Naritus =!=!= Govinda Renneke - Ahazi ][

][ Aged Citizen - Lowca =!=!= Sinn vonBeasterhausen - Bloodfin ][

___________________________________________________

Proud Family of the Alliance

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Thread: What does an Amazing Success!!! give in experimentation?