Architect Archive
Thread: Thought for the day: Kill the Gungan Statues
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l33thaxx0rnam3
Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:36 am
#1
Now that the hologrind is over, I probably won't getasmany one stars for this as I would've before hand.
Why not change the schematic to include a master artisan component?
I'm not fond of being the "fastest profession to master", and we all know what the problem is. It's not like these things are in insanely high demand anyway, fountains and statues could both stand to be a little tougher to make. It shouldn't create much headache for people once they've mastered, it would just remove the expressramp for people looking to plow through the tree.
Cafa
Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:07 am
#3
Sevardos wrote:
Or, cap the amount of experience you can make off one item.
Amen. How the hell is a statue worth morth than a complex harvestor? I just dont get it.
Fivo Asia
Pawlin
Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:50 am
#4
I think we should do both. Require a component and reduce the XP.
But if they nerf statues then everyone would just use fountains or crafting stations. So it won't help a huge amount. Even if someone grinds walls they should be able to master in a few hours.
ZenDragonMLS
Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:08 am
#5
I don't disagree. However, what "problem" are we trying to solve here?
For every crafting profession there is a path (or set of paths) that a Novice can take to get to Master that really teaches them many facets of the trade. But there is also a path or set of paths that allow them to minimize their time investment to hit master.
We might construct some stereotypes of people who choose one path or another, but I'm not reallysure it matters in the long run. I'm sure that there are folks who ground statues and then buckled down to really do a good job of being a Master Architect in practice as well as title. And I suspect that there are people who took the longer path who are still clueless after they hit Master.
I ground mostly walls, but there were times when I really really wanted that next box and so I made crafting stations in practice mode. The fact that someone can do that grind in an hour when it took me weeks doesn't bother me a bit - it has no impact on the "value" that I place on the title.
So, what does it hurt of the "fast" path to Master Architect is faster than another crafting profession?
Sevardos
Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:43 am
#6
Pawlin wrote:
I think we should do both. Require a component and reduce the XP.
But if they nerf statues then everyone would just use fountains or crafting stations. So it won't help a huge amount. Even if someone grinds walls they should be able to master in a few hours.
Agreed. However, cap the experience relative to other professions, not what architects can make. Because it's currently based on the number of resources used, architect will always be the profession you can grind the fastest.
Therefore, cap experience that you can make for all products in all professions. Or, base exp on which box the product is in. Box 3 of the tree has higher experience than a product in Box 2 and make it similar to other professions.
There are probably other loop holes, but it makes sense to me that crafting professions be balanced compared to each other similar to how there is soooo much focus on how combat professions are balanced compared to each other.
Pawlin
Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:54 am
#7
ZenDragonMLS wrote:
I don't disagree. However, what "problem" are we trying to solve here?
...
So, what does it hurt of the "fast" path to Master Architect is faster than another crafting profession?
The way I look at it the problem is that if architect is too easy to master then we'll have too many architects.
The easier it is to master a profession then the more people will master it.
An elite profession should take some work to break into. While I'm not really happy with the break-your-wrist grind system we have for cranking out XP, I don't think that architect should be out of line with the other elite crafting professions with regards to how long it takes to master. Maybe a little easier then some but not 5 times as easy as the next easiest.
Is it really a problem for us at this point? I am not sure that it is. I don't see an over supply of architects right now.
However we definitley had too many architects a while back. At one point it was the 2nd most mastered profession behind CH (pre-nerf). I remember a time when I couldn't swing a dead gurrcat in Coronet without hitting 2 master architects. And we all know how the abundance on the supply side can drive down prices due to competition. I think that easy mastery is one of the key things that has lead to the undercutting and deep price competition for the architect profession. I'm sure many people only mastered architect while hologrinding. But cause it was one of the easier profs to grind out a lot of people did it first or at least before the other elite crafting profs. Since you had more hologrinders mastering it a larger number of them would stick around either because they actually enjoyed it or because they thought they could make a quick buck before dropping.
So is it worth fixing now? I'm not sure. The damage is already done.
Fneegan
Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:55 am
#8
I agree,Architect is one of the easiest and quickest professions to Master. If anything, maybea changebefore or duringthe Hologrind was needed. Why now ?
Also, of those that grinded away at Mastering as many professions as they could, how many of them kept or went back to the Architect profession?
Now that Hologrinding is over, I suspect more players will stay in their chosen profession(s) longer. They're not going to take up Architectjust because it'squick and easy.
Although including an Artisan component isn't a bad idea, I don't think we want more of our items becoming dependant upon some other profession(s).
Pawlin
Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:56 pm
#9
Fneegan wrote:
...
Now that Hologrinding is over, I suspect more players will stay in their chosen profession(s) longer. They're not going to take up Architectjust because it'squick and easy.
...
I think that the impact of this moving forward is that it will make our profession more volatile.
Here's a potential situation: Say on a server there is a lack of architects such that the active architects are able to demand a premium price due to the imbalance between supply and demand. If some bystander is looking for a potential profession to get into then architect looks pretty good. The only thing keeping them from doing it is the time and money required to get into the profession. If it takes just an hour to master then that really eliminates the time required. And it makes it so that people can increase supply very quickly. Add it to the relative ease of obtaining the materials we need and the low difficulty level in obtaining perfect product and it is easy for someone to pick up architect very quickly and jump in to compete.
Compare that to Weaponsmiths. It takes 10 times as longmaster, you have to have high quality materials and you've got 12 point smiths at the high end to compete with and very little chance of making the uber weapons that everyone wants.
Overall it might be good for the economy to have more volatility in a profession since it will help keep prices in balance more with supply easily adjusting to meet demand.I really don't know if its bad or good overall. However it isn't good for architect profit margins. We have less of an ability to milk a good sellers market for any length of time, it seems like over night someone comes along to under cut and/or fill the demand. Now dont' take that comment the wrong way. I'm not trying to protect the alleged monopolies of the established architects. (If I wanted to do that I'd hit delete on the FAQ right now) But I'd like to see any serious architect new or old have the ability to run a good business if they put in the time and not always have to deal with a new "quick buck" opportunists or temporary dabblers or the do-it-yourself crowd all the time.
Iseabeil
Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:51 pm
#10
I would agree that making architect harder to master might somehow be good in some cases. But yer suggestions would imbalance it alot. I made master tailor last week, and am now starting to work on architect. yes, architects gets more exp since they use more resources. I can't see the wrong part in this tho, as ye have to get these resources. I started play through Fileplanet 14 day trial, i aint got any stuffed up money to pay lvling with. im still running artisan missions every now and then to be able to buy all the ore i need. i got skill to make medium harvesters but no experimentation skills, a BER5 harvester aint worth the maintenance. just finished buildings 2 so i can make a house that looks nice for my vendors. now i just gotta run a couple of missions and lay in the dust to sample, as i cant sample all i need with personal harvesters.
is this what ye call the easiest to master? sure, if ye already got money, if ye are new, faaaaaar from easie. master tailor was a breeze compaired to this.
l33thaxx0rnam3
Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:22 am
#11
Pawlin wrote:
The gungan statues are primarily used by people who can afford to throw away a large amount of resources just to master quick.
Which is my targeted audience. Since pretty much the only way to be able to AFFORD to get to master as a new player on your own is to make walls, this just kills the people powerhouseing through it. Regular joe architetcts shouldn't be affected.
28 minutes. C'mon. 28 freakin minutes. You could grind to master waiting for shuttles between Lok and Talus. That's just silly.
I think this would help us overall, and might actually stamp out some of the fluxuations, since there won't be as many "flash in the pans" mastering, going "this sucks" spamming all their stuff for sale at giveaway prices in the market as they bail for a combat class. Just a thought, my logic isn't nearly as wellthought out as some others here.
TheJawaJubbo
Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:55 am
#12
who cares...people may grind up but its those who remain architect that matter. some of us take pride in our skills and thats all that counts as far as i'm concerned. good products competitively priced.
hologrinders come and go.
Cafa
Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:49 am
#13
TheJawaJubbo wrote:
who cares...people may grind up but its those who remain architect that matter. some of us take pride in our skills and thats all that counts as far as i'm concerned. good products competitively priced.
hologrinders come and go.
Hero of the Day! Woot!
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