Architect Archive
Thread: New Crafting Quests... NO WAY!!! ROFL
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Zujin
Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:03 pm
#1
Ok boys and girls now I think I've seen the full extent of SOE's 'lack' of player to game knowledge.
Picture this... I'm a master Architect looking for a little bit of fun ( I know I know 'What was I thinking!' ) and I herd of these new quests you can get from a 'Contractor' in Crafting Guild Hall's in NPC Cities so I go take a look.
Me> Hello mister contractor please give me a hard Architect quest...
Contractor> *Snigger* Ok please build me 6 couches and put them in this factory crate
Me> Er what type of couches? Hello?
Contractor> *Chucking in the corner of the room*
Me> Ok ill try the basic one....
First I made a normal couch the easy ones, nope wouldn't go in the box, then I tried the large half moon couch, mmm strange that wont go in either... hang on a sec the only other couch is the Master Couch than only 'Master Architects' can make and why would one of them want to do a Quest like this?? (yeaI know ironic)
So I build a Master Couch and low and behold it goes in...
Me> Stuff that! I'm not wasting masses of hard to obtain resources to put in your crate take it away, er can I have my couch back please
Contractor> *Slight tear in eye* hehe erm I mean no sorry now gimme that crate.
Me> *Sigh* Fine let me try a Challenging task
Contractor>*Laughing out loud now* hehe sure OK Please make me.... 6 Correlian Shuttleports *LOL*
Me> Er... you have to be kidding me! No way man!
Contractor> Ahhh. ok but you have to wait 2mins before you can ask me for another mission.
Me> Fine fine,
-- 2 Mins Later --
Me> Ok smart guy give me an easy Architect mission
Contractor>*Still slightly wheezy from the last laughing fit* Ok please build me 8 Squared Metal Chairs and put them in this box..
Me> hmm ok they use about 100metal each so I don't mind
I set to work and build 8 Squared Metal Chairs and put them in the box, now I'm not sure about other servers but on my server each one of these chairs will fetch about 300-500creds and the metal alone about 2-3 CPU so I'm expecting the reward for this to be about 2400 credits.
Contractor> Thank you ill take that *snatches box*
Me> Ah yea OK erm where's my reward *rubs fingers together*
Contractor> Oh yea....*starts tearing up* Here you go... 120credits *Now crying with laughter and can no longer speak*
Me> .... *Pulls out Stun Baton and ....... well you don't wanna know!*
So basically the Dev's are saying... " Hay people do you want togrind easy items and get a little exp using a small amount of resources and getting no money / Craft decent items at anOK exp reward using a fair amount ofresources and getting paid well for your work and sales skills to players,or..... Craft extremely hard items with subcomponents and factory items using a ton of resources for a high amount of exp and only getting an amount of money less than that you find down the side of your sofa! Comon you know you wanna use our 'GREAT' new quest system"
Well I'm not really that surprised considering this idea came from the people that thought there weren't enough things for junk-dealers to do and junk to find so well put out 50 items that are dam near impossible to find and when you do eventually get all the pieces you need for your 1 loot kit (probably after paying millions for the last piece) you can just hand it back to the junk-dealer for a whopping 1000credits, oh yea its all good!
I am so glad I never lost my brain entirely and started crafting shuttleports, so basically people DO NOT try this system if your an Architect you can make more money shouting 'CHEEEESSEEEEEEE' in a variety of funny emotions at a shuttleport and you will save yourself a lot of resources.
/Rant off
Zujin
* I'm NOT CRAZY, just uniquely sane 
*
*
Mkappus
Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:07 pm
#2
A dev posted a response to everyone on what the quests were really for.
He said the main point to them was to give an XP bonus and a small reward, to intermediate and novices in the profession looking to level up. Instead of doing things in practice mode and getting nothing in return, they have set up these quests for people grinding up so they can get 120 credits back, and an XP bonus.
So, for masters of the profession they are a total waste. But if you are looking to level up, they might be decent. Check the in-live posts.
Mkappus
Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:08 pm
#3
Hello everyone,
We appreciate all the comments and feedback about the items in Publish 9.2, and I would like to follow up with a few of our thoughts regarding the Crafting Contractor quests.
The primary demographic for which these quests are designed is the junior crafter that is trying to work his or her way up to master the profession. The Crafting Contract system is intended to be an alternative for those that are trying to get experience at novice levels, but find it difficult to sell the items that they make to other players.
To this goal, crafters have had the option to use 'practice mode' on their crafting tools to earn slightly more experience at the cost of losing the prototype item that would normally be produced. This system is comparable to what we are trying to achieve with the Crafting Contractor quests. Filling the contracts may be a little slower, but the experience bonus is larger and the crafter will get a small credit reward (as opposed to no credit return in practice mode).
We wanted the main reward for these contract to be the experience bonus for completing the assignment, the credit rewards are intentionally on the low side. These are not quests from which you will make a profit, we still want the main source of income for crafters to be from selling items to other players.
We do not want to exclude intermediate or advanced crafters that want to take part in the system, and so your local crafting contractor will give you the option to choose the difficulty of your assignment. Keep in mind though, that since the primary return for these quests is the experience, master crafters may find the reward less satisfying.
I understand that this is not what many people had in mind for the crafting quests. That being said, and as some others have previously suggested, I think that having true "quests" for crafters is a fantastic idea (something sufficiently challenging and interesting, with an appropriately appealing reward). It is something that we have talked about, and it is something that I would love to be included with future content.
Again, I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to participate and post your feedback. We do take all comments seriously and keep them in mind for revisions and future content.
SWG Live Designer
antares_Kauri
Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:20 pm
#4
I read the dev post about what the quests really were, so I was completely expecting most of this, but 6 shuttleports? Hehe. The reward for that would probably be 1000 credits.
antares
master pikeman
antares
master pikeman
Arratarr
Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:21 pm
#5
Still.... Grinding shuttleports isn't the most ideal way of getting to master. Since these are supposed to be to make getting XP a bit more fun, eliminating the idea of crafting items that require multiple identical subcomponents might be a good idea.
And why would you need xp if you can already craft master level couches? Maybe someone needs to be a bit more selective of the items each challenge gives you? Less high end resource intensive items, more cheap items...
Either that or make some of the high end rewards schematics for new furniture...
And why would you need xp if you can already craft master level couches? Maybe someone needs to be a bit more selective of the items each challenge gives you? Less high end resource intensive items, more cheap items...
Either that or make some of the high end rewards schematics for new furniture...
Zujin
Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:30 pm
#6
Yea I know there not supposed to be for Master's etc but why have a quest where you 'need' to craft master equipment to finish the quest and as for the shuttleports, I would never craft something like that just to gain exp I would want to sell it even selling one for 50k creds is better then what this system is offering.
Crafting small stuff without needing factory crates of subcomponents and things that don't sell well is all well and good but when the second difficulty quest requires you to craft something that sells into the hundreds of thousands of credits and needs factory parts I'm going to hazard a guess that someone didn't think this through properly and just threw in some options without actually considering what might be a good item for people to craft.
What I'm trying to say is between the choice of using the 'practice' button and grinding cheep items or using this new crafting quest system a novicearchitect would be throwing away a heck of a lot more money and time doing the new quests then just grinding and destroying the stuff through 'practice'. If the Contractor asked you to make items that were hardly ever soldor that used less resources and the reward was scaled more to actually make you want to try the harder quests then great I can see grinding being a thing of the past (except for people who can afford it because its doubtful there is going to be a faster way, which I guess is as it should be)
Has good potential but looks like it wasn't paid enough attention, again.
Zujin
*I'm NOT CRAZY, just uniquely sane *
*
Pawlin
Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:54 pm
#7
Well if the intention is for this to be a way for a novice or intermediate crafter to get an XP boost and maybe some pocket change to boot then having missions that require master level items or large city structures is what I would consider broken.
The intention seems like a good one though in general. I know for most folks the way to mastery is currently grind item X until you get skill box 1 then grinditem Y. This kind of thing makes obtaining mastery a bit funner and a lot less tedious.
StumanKadir
Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:19 pm
#8
Yeah but the whole premise behind the idea is completely borked.
Fine you get a wonderful mission to craft up some stuff and then to get some form of return, but the level of return is ludicrously low when compared to the inputs required and the alternatives. You get more xp and better money running artisan crafting missions between AH and Bestine, and for archs, you get better xp by apprenticing to a Master and grinding walls and the occassional practiced Statue.
For example, you get a quest to make 6 metal chairs, so you go off and get the resources, make them, get a small xp bonus with each one and then hand them back for next to nix in return. You would get a greater reward making an extra item and them dumping the lot on the bazaars at a slightly less than market price (as what most up and coming archs do now).
Stupid little additions like this do nothing to solve the overall problem of novices not being able to compete against masters. Its true for this profession, and its true for every other profession. It would be better to have master levels restricted from making the basic level stuff. In this way the novices get their slice of the market, the masters have theirs, and those that wish to cover everything have to deal with those that are up and coming.
Pawlin
Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:57 pm
#9
StumanKadir wrote:
...Stupid little additions like this do nothing to solve the overall problem of novices not being able to compete against masters. Its true for this profession, and its true for every other profession. It would be better to have master levels restricted from making the basic level stuff. In this way the novices get their slice of the market, the masters have theirs, and those that wish to cover everything have to deal with those that are up and coming.
I agree they need to give novices more things that can sell. I think architect isn't as bad off as some since novices can make factories which are at least in demand.
More good things lower in the skill trees would be an improvement all around.
Restricting masters from making some items would basically be nerfing masters. I would rather we shuffle around some of the items in some of the skill trees and/or add some new items lower down that novices can make a living off.
I think for example if they had implemented paintings so that you got them at Furniture I but could only make them by hand yet not be limited use then that might help. Good demand and good profit margin. Hand crafting would make it so establsihed archs couldn't corner the market with large factory runs.
Sevardos
Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:14 am
#10
Plain, simple and to the point ... they did these quests WRONG and IDIOTIC. I don't see how this travesty can be even remotely defended or justified.
When I first heard about the details on these quests, I immediately figured it was bugged and that it would get fixed in the near future - didn't think more on it. However, when I read that how they implemented was intentional, I was shocked, flabbergasted and disgusted.
Lets review:
1. A novice crafter would make more experience grinding in practice mode than doing these quests
2. A novice crafter would make 20 to 100 times more credits selliing the items they make on the bazaar than doing the quests
3. A novice crafter would make more money AND experience grinding and then keeping what they grind and selling it on the bazaar.
4. A novice crafter would level their profession faster NOT using the quests
Therefore, the advantage and purpose of using the quests are ................ none!! At least one of these instances should be an incentive for doing the quests. Not saying all them should have beneficial, just ONE of them!
I have never ranted about a Dev publish beforebecause I try to see both sides of why things were done. However,THIS is the most idiotic thing I have ever seen and it completely boggles my mind that it was even implemented. Their side on why it was done this way make no logical sense within the realities of their game.
What they should have done is use these quests to help new crafters get started - especially for those who are new to the server and most importantly, new to the game.
1. The reward should be at least 60% or moreof the value of the resources of that product. Yes, I know pricing is different based on eachserver you're on however, an average could be taken ... but 250 credits??.... 250 credits!?! For love of all that is holy, that is absolutely ridiculous. How is a new player able to afford that? Why bother - just do a damn mission!
2. The quests should be used to help a new crafter gain money in the early stages of the profession. Set a limit on the number of PROFITABLE quests you can do and pay reasonable amount for creations made. This will allow for the crafter to be encouraged during the early stages and give them some resource money.
3. Master should never have been included if the purpose was to help non-Master crafters. Master furniture for a quest? Was someone drinking when they designed this?
4. Badges should be given for certain number of quests done. Each badge gives you a large EXP bump. Each badge level becomes more difficult to get, but the reward for each bump also grows.
These quests should have been designed to make grinding less attractive. Instead, they made the entire concept a mockery.
Pawlin
Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:09 am
#11
It certainly needs a lot of improvement. But with a little tweaking it could work fine. Just increase the payouts and the XP bonuses and you've got a decent solution. It probably won't be better than grinding as far as pure efficient XP count but it would be a nice alternative to sore wrists.
I think the idea should be something along the lines of the newbie quests that you get now when you first start. Those are fairly well done from what I've seen. Newbie artisans craft something like 5 CDEF rifles and the payoff isn't too bad, then when you finish the set of missions you get a temporary 'rental' vehicle deed to use.
If they can fix the crafting quests to be appropriate for the intermediate level then it would be fine.
To be honest, when I read 'crafting quests' I was thinking along the lines of the RIS stuff armorsmiths do. That would be nice for us to have something like that which is a real challenge with a real payoff (if RIS were worth it). But improving the intermediate crafting experience is a good goal too.
Pawlin
Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:10 am
#12
Oh... one more thing. Its pretty messed up that they have this apply to master level crafters and use master level items in any way. I can't see why any master would want to do this kind of thing.
LonelyGhost
Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:58 am
#13
Yes, having MAster level items as the item you craft is ludicrous. Having shuttleports is stupid. Having anything that uses ANY components is stupid, particularly identical ones.
But, I think this is a step in the right direction. I think now that we have them in game, they can be tweaked and adjusted over time, until they make more sense. It continually amazes me how messed up so much of the stuff coming out of their offices is. Its one thing to be restriced in what you can do thanks to the money-grubbing bean-counters at LucasArts and SOE (forcing them to push stuff out they think will maake them money instead of fixing the core game), but this is not the fault of a Suit. This is just plain silly decision making of a Dev. Did they ask the community for input on this? Not that I heard.
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