Architect Archive
Thread: 12 point architect the deep secrets
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ZenDragonMLS
Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:43 pm
#1
Seems like everyone is asking about how to get to be a 12 point architect and what magical things it will do for them. So I thought I'd share some of the deep secrets.
1. Are you planning on making only furniture, houses, crafting stations, or city buildings?
2. Are you unable to hit BER13 on your harvesters?
3. Do you have good BER13 harvesters but are unable to sell them?
The first secret is: if you answered *yes* to any of those, then becoming a 12 point architect will not help you one little bit.
The *only* thing that having 12 points instead of 10 points available will do for you is allow you to make your havesters have a slightly larger hopper size - period. If you don't have good enough resources then you'll never make a BER13 harvester in the first place. If you haven't figured out how to sell your products then those 2 extra points aren't going to make you successful.
IF you want to get 12 points because it is a challenge, or because you want to make "the best", or something like that, then go ahead - everyone has their own definition of "fun" and their own goals. There are a number of very successful 12 point architects that frequent this forum, and there are a number of very successful 10 point architects here too.
I'm not trying to discourage people from getting 12 points - I'm just trying to make sure that you aren't doing it because you think it is a guarentee for success or will make up for other things in your crafting.
Pawlin
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:17 am
#2
Yep. 12 points is really just an optional luxury item with marginal benefit.
Norewgian-Scout
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:45 am
#3
Pawlin wrote:Yep. 12 points is really just an optional luxury item with marginal benefit.
looks nice in you sig though
looks like im getting my 12 for about 1.5 mill, i can live with that
dantaglo
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:50 am
#4
One important thing about being a 12pt arch also...
iif you crit fail on an exp of 2-3 points.. you can recover and still get the BER13 if you use good resources .. I hit BER13 at around 76% on exp.. I have 5 points. sometimes (rare) 6 points left,,, and if I crit then I can recover and still get the BER13.. but I only exp in lots of1 and 2 though
ZenDragonMLS
Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:53 pm
#5
Since I make all of my harvesters in the factory, this isn't a big deal. If I get a BER12 then I make a prototype and deep discount it. As soon as I get a single BER13 (which is almost always on the first try) then I make a schematic and don't have to worry about it for a long time.
Again, I wasn't trying to steer people away from working themselves up to 12 points - I just want to make sure that no one thinks it makes "average" resources good or a lousy business into a winner.
MrDoppa
Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:32 pm
#6
For the most part, it seems the 12 pointers are more geared to being ws, as or other profs where there are several categories that need to be experimented. Good resources and components will get you where you need to be.
DeaDrakul
Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:49 pm
#7
Hey, I appreciate it. I'm still working toward M. Arch, but it's nice to know that resources are still the most important thing. I have trouble getting BER very high, but I don't try right now. I make things that don't need a BER, and plan to work on searching out the resources for good harvesters later. I'm too busy right now to spend the time on it, and am happy to use my purchased ones.
bluejanus
Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:00 pm
#8
I'm a 12 pointer, but I don't advertise that since it doesn't really matter.
dkleinw
Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:41 pm
#9
I got my 12 points because everyone else was doing it and I wanted to lool cool 
One side note, besides having very good materials (a must for harvies), an above average crafting tool and station are a must. Also crafting in a "Research" city is almost a must. I noticed that once I got a combined score of over +40 on the tool/station and in a Research City, I very, very rarely got a critical failure, and very rarely get any result below very good. I hand craft my harvies (I'm a small business) and results are (not formal but a very good estimate) 0.5% Critical, 3.0% Moderate or Good, 60% Very Good, rest are Amazing. I am now using a combined +47.85 and out of 50 harvies made, only once did I get a Good, all the other results have been Verys or above.
Oceaf
MPNoH
One side note, besides having very good materials (a must for harvies), an above average crafting tool and station are a must. Also crafting in a "Research" city is almost a must. I noticed that once I got a combined score of over +40 on the tool/station and in a Research City, I very, very rarely got a critical failure, and very rarely get any result below very good. I hand craft my harvies (I'm a small business) and results are (not formal but a very good estimate) 0.5% Critical, 3.0% Moderate or Good, 60% Very Good, rest are Amazing. I am now using a combined +47.85 and out of 50 harvies made, only once did I get a Good, all the other results have been Verys or above.
Oceaf
MPNoH
Fantomonkey
Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:20 pm
#10
I was pondering if I really needed this as I am a casual crafter. Thx for the info.
Aleskander
Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:27 pm
#11
Fantomonkey wrote:
I was pondering if I really needed this as I am a casual crafter. Thx for the info.
You can get BER 13's with just the 10 points, but the extra 2 points help with hopper size.
Dazzydoodle
Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:12 am
#12
dkleinw wrote:
I got my 12 points because everyone else was doing it and I wanted to lool cool
One side note, besides having very good materials (a must for harvies), an above average crafting tool and station are a must. Also crafting in a "Research" city is almost a must. I noticed that once I got a combined score of over +40 on the tool/station and in a Research City, I very, very rarely got a critical failure, and very rarely get any result below very good. I hand craft my harvies (I'm a small business) and results are (not formal but a very good estimate) 0.5% Critical, 3.0% Moderate or Good, 60% Very Good, rest are Amazing. I am now using a combined +47.85 and out of 50 harvies made, only once did I get a Good, all the other results have been Verys or above.
Oceaf
MPNoH
Well, my crafting station has an FR above zero. Maybe. (+8 I think). And I throw whatever crap into my unexperimented crafting tools.
I hit BER 13, hopper 123k, no prob. I hit mostly good/great successes, few amazings. Don't remember the last moderate success... 10pt, research city, +10 bespin port. Maybe that last compensates for the crappy tools and station?
Pawlin
Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:54 am
#13
Dazzydoodle wrote:
...
Well, my crafting station has an FR above zero. Maybe. (+8 I think). And I throw whatever crap into my unexperimented crafting tools.
I hit BER 13, hopper 123k, no prob. I hit mostly good/great successes, few amazings. Don't remember the last moderate success... 10pt, research city, +10 bespin port. Maybe that last compensates for the crappy tools and station?
Well this is a little bit of a tangent, but...
My theory is that the crafting tool and crafting station quality has a marginal impact on the experimentation successes. I think that the amount is overshadowed by the impact we get from being a master.
A long time ago I did some experimentation comparing a master artisan to a character with just a few experimentation points. The master got a really high reate of great and amazing successes no matter what tools were used. It was over 90% either way and I didn't see much different with the tools. With the non-master artisan (think it was like 3xxx skill or something) I did see a difference between the tools. Without good tools I got like 20 or 30% great or amazing success but with good tools that rate went up like 1/3 or 1/4.
I've also done experiment that showed that our Strucutre Assembly skill has a big impact on the rate of Great or Amazing success results we get in experimentation. I posted a whole thread on that. The master with 100-120 structure assembly got Great or Amazing at a very high rate. But the dabbler at 0xxx skill had a real tough time getting Great or Amazings.
So basically I think that as a master you're already 99% towards the limit. Then if you add the impact of good or bad tools on top of that it doesn't make enough of a difference to be noticable. There might also be diminishing returns on the impact we get from the different things. So if you're a novice and maybe your skill gets you 50% towards max, tools might get you a 10% difference. But if you're a master and at 99% max, maybe tools only get you a 0.1% difference.
Someday when I've got some time I'll do some more experimentation and see if it supports my theory or not.
Anyway, back to the original topic... what were we talking about?...
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