Architect Archive
Thread: Archis & Merchants (was: GCW revamp is a bit disappointing)
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Crimsonsplat
Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:03 pm
#1
Edit: this thread got thoroughly derailed between myself, Pawlin and Dvnce. I figured, enh,since I started it, then I derailed it, well, I could rename it. Also, I've read some things that sound a bit more promising for crafters in the war & seen much support for it, so I'm not as negative as I was when I first started the thread.
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As I figured, they totally left crafters out of it.
Oh, I'm sorry, that's not quite correct. They left all non-Armorsmith, non-Weaponsmith, non-Doctor, non-Chef crafters out of it. They will see the same business or more due to an increase in combat. CH, maybe. Tailors and Architects.... Wake me when the fight's over
I posted a couple of suggestions in part 3 of the GCW posts, but I'm not really hopeful... although I tried to sound positive there.
Message Edited by Crimsonsplat on 02-10-2005 02:50 PM
Pawlin
Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:14 pm
#2
Armorsmiths are getting to craft the new faction armor. So I see no reason why we shouldn't be able to craft GCW structures in some way.
RangerMoe
Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:16 pm
#3
How about the old pill box or bunker's. Or we can craft the fox hole, they can lay it down when ever needed.
walcyradiant
Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:34 pm
#5
Dvnce wrote:
Thats not the Revamp of the GCW. it is just some attention
I'd like an order of that please, or is that an off the menu item? =)
Cherokaa
Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:29 pm
#6
You have to write "The bantha flies over the moon at Midnight" on your napkin before you'll be offered the off the menu items.
Elyssa
Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:39 pm
#7
Shh!!!
Next thing you know, everyone will know about the secret handshake too!
/bonk 
linusboarder
Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:39 pm
#8
Here is my new hope. In order to do the CU, they have to update a few of the non-combat professions. Doc, chefs, Weapons and armor. However, as we've been told, the sole focus after this is non-combat. Let's hope they chage things so the Structures can be crafted by Arch's (hey and when they are blown up, we will have repeat business.) Let's hope they do something cool, like we can experiment and maybe one category will up the hitpoints of the building and another category will allow more turret placements or something like that.
They can't fix everything all in one publish, so I am willing to wait until we start hearing stuff about the non-combat revamp, unless publishes come out that i feel hurt our profession (like the last one).
But man they better really know what they are doing, because our profession could use a ton of help (i like it a lot, so i don't want them to start over, but there's so much that can be added to it too)
They can't fix everything all in one publish, so I am willing to wait until we start hearing stuff about the non-combat revamp, unless publishes come out that i feel hurt our profession (like the last one).
But man they better really know what they are doing, because our profession could use a ton of help (i like it a lot, so i don't want them to start over, but there's so much that can be added to it too)
Circe' Pojia
Crimsonsplat
Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:00 am
#9
Well, for what it's worth, I went back to that discussion we had last fall about getting the Arch's involved in the GCW, updated a few ideas, and posted excerpts over in the Core Systems: GCW thread.
Original discussion:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=architect&message.id=65024
I was hip about all the great changes being made to the game and working on coming back as an architect, but last night reminded me so much of why I left the game in frustration. Went to Lok to check some harvs I put down the previous night. The field was crawling with red cons. Pirates & aggresive monsters on all four sides and a base spawned right next to my fusions. Called in another buddy (also novice rifleman) and we got our butts kicked hard. Don't think we could have taken it with his master pikeman and buffs.
He had to log, so I went to Theed and checked a remote harvester I'd left in place a few days earlier. The first 3 nights I visited it, there was nothing nearby. Last night there were aggressive spawns on all sides of it. I finally managed to find a crack to slip through, re-deeded the harvester and bailed.
I've noticed a distinct tendency of structures to "attract" aggressive spawns. Maybe it's just imagination, but I can find a flat, empty area to put down several harvesters, and when I come back in a couple of days, it's crawling with spawns. I could see SOE doing this to encourage players to put houses in cities, but whatever the reason, it's stupid. Even if I'm imagining it, I have to wonder what Sony's thinking.
I've read that in the early design phase, they planned on Farmer and Miner professions, but eventualy merged them into Artisan. I have to wonder if they planned on them all being ex-commando's or something, because the level of combat skill you need just to service your freaking harvesters is unreal. I used to havea large field south of Sparta on Tatooine, Starsider (rotted now), and I would regularly get incapped and even DB'd trying to service it. On _Tat_. As a novice Rifleman (don't get me started on all the points I've got tied up in merchant). Trying to get Dathomiran Fungus and Endorian Wood is hopeless.
So I talk to other crafters, and many tell me "Oh I don't even try to go harvest with my crafter... I use my combat character on the other account. This is my crafter alt."
So I guess if you're a one-account crafter, you're supposed tobuy your resources, eh?
What does this have to do with the GCW? Not much, but it's got me wondering if the GCW changes are enough to keep me in the game. How in the world am I going to do lot trades with new characters (same server, thank you) when I can't even survive out there, let alone a noob?
Dvnce
Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:15 pm
#10
Well I am and will always push for Faction Crafters to be able to craft Faction Perks. In a economy that is supposed to be supported 100% by crafters it is the only thing that makes sense...
Hehe now off topic of this thread but in addition to your off topic post 
as far as the rest of what you said yes being a dedicated artisan is tough especially in the wild. Pretty much my interpretation ( and yes this is biased with confidential information that I have been able to have access to. )
In the Combat aspect of this there is certain things that we are "supposed" to be able to alone. If we want to tackle Larger and more complex compounds/ mobs / whatever we are "supposed" to need help. This requires us finding certain members of other professions and grouping up.( key words are Supposed )
Well this is also supposed to be equal in the artisan aspect of the game as well. There is only supposed to be so much that we are able to do on our own. ( what that line is I have no idea ) and if we in business want to tackle a larger more complex market we are supposed to seek the aid of business partners to accomplish this. Many people are worried about shifting the game in the direction of what it was always supposed to be. Building relationships ingame with people you dont know is hard to do sometimes especially in a business arena because there is ALOT of trust required. This model is what I have built my "business" around. I buy 98% of all my resources. ( anywhere from 5-10 million units a week ) I incorporate help as much as I can to do tasks all the time. ( although I really Do wish I was limited even further ) This game is supposed to be an interactioin in a similated society it only makes sense needing to rely on others. Which is good if we are given the proper tools to do this. ( it should be easier not harder working with other active players )
you may ask why be limited further?. well.. I have just on my server,still buying all my resource but only incorporating 1 other architect to build Structure Modules started the process of building and placing on MY vendors over 1k mediumharves 1k heavyharvs 1800 houses of all sizes 300 factories 100 tents 50 PA halls and the rest of my vendor items will be furniture. I am 65% done with this plan and will be 100% done by the end of this week. though this is tough to do and I feel an accomplishment from being able to do this. It is also Very Scary. Think of how I am impacting the server. pretty much 1 guy. If I cut my prices low enough how would that effect my server.? ( for those thinking that you would buy me out one even at 2 cpu pricing can you? and two, I can replenish my inventory in two weeks so can you do it again? ) This is why I have really adopted the stance of needing to group in the artisan playstyle as well. Because I do not think it is healthy to enable 1 person to be able to impact the server on that scale.
Think of how benificial it would be to the economy if you had to partner up with more people. ( sure prices would rise ) but that money is also being spread out to more people. Ideally you would be paying miners , paying people to help with storage, paying people to help produce sub componants , paying people to help market , paying people to help sell and manage your inventory. Money is being spread around much more than it is now and people can afford those higher prices. To me that is what satisfies me in the artisan playstyle not only building a product but building a business model that effects the playability of other people around the world.
Heheh.. Ok.. I am done lol.. Today is a pretty insanely busy day lol.. and thoughts are flying through my head.. heheh.. any back ontrack
Crimsonsplat
Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:07 pm
#11
You know, I was going to say that I wouldn't even mind having to deal with other players for all my parts, if I could just find a reliable supplier. But when you buy, say GP cards from an artisan, you have NO WAY of objectively knowing if they were made with junk resources or top notch. So if you're about to stick one in an item for which quality matters, you're inputting an unknown. I can tell a player "I want top quality" and pay for it, but I have no idea what I'm getting. And I can end up with a whole lot of money wasted--and I can't prove it was the artisans fault.
However, it occurs to me, that I may be working based on the old model crafter UI. I haven't verified yet: does the quality of subcomponents (where relevent) show up as a red/yellow/green bar when making the schematic?
If I can't, that makes it harder to make the good stuff. Why would I trust anyone else?I know I used very high quality resources to make crafting stations, yet I never could get over a 21. (only 10 point arch, that might be the difference...)
My big gripe over interedependance has to do with the Merchant class. If you're going to require it, either makeit worka lot better incombo with a master crafter, or drop the skill point cost. Or at least createa way touse someone else's (a Merchant's) vendor, so I can still sell at *my* prices without having the skill.
Edit: and I can just see myself hiring guards.
"Hey, I'll pay you two 10k each plus travel expenses to guard me on a trip to Dathomir to my harvs."
"Enh how long will it take?"
"Um...." (thinks about how long it takes to travel cross country,pay maint, pick up materials, & change settings on 20 harvesters, even with macros, addsuptime) ".... about an hour."
"Blow me, I can run three missions in that time for more money!"
(Thinks about profit margin going down the drain already.....) "***SMURF***!!"
I wouldn't mind buying from sellers as much if so many of them weren't combat classes in the first place. But since you don't need surveying to put down harvesters, anyone can get into the resource market. Which, I admit, is good and bad....
Message Edited by Crimsonsplat on 02-09-2005 05:26 PM
Dvnce
Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:50 pm
#12
Crimsonsplat wrote:
Message Edited by Crimsonsplat on 02-09-2005 05:26 PM
This is a big issue for me too.. If a subcomponant has attributes that pass on to final product You should be able to see those attributes from the detail screen on the vendor. ( some do many dont ) That is the big issue we are "Supposed" to really on others but the tools are not in place to reduce the risk, effort, and trust required to do this. I am Huge in Fighting for not only pushing for this working together model but I am extremely Huge in pushing for the proper tools to make this fun and well.. even feasable. ( sp?) especially in the merchant=crafter relationships.. Oh I dream for the day that I can have a true merchant sell my wares I know I could keep 4 or 5 dedicated merchants busy.
Pawlin
Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:37 pm
#13
Dvnce wrote:
...That is the big issue we are "Supposed" to really on others but the tools are not in place to reduce the risk, effort, and trust required to do this....
Agreed.
I think that this is especially true of the merchant and crafter relationship.
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