CUEmu - Thread Posts

ThePhantomPoster

Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:59 pm

Now, this is not an 'architect sucks I quit blah blah' post. So please dont read this like im saying it with an attitude, I am not. This is just my viewpoint of 'the problems', from the outside now.

I made a good chunk of change pretty quick. The reason that I am not upset about leaving architect is that nobody (at least on ahazi) wants to pay what things are worth.

The other half of that specific problem is that the architects just LOVE to undercut each other.

Nobody really seems to understand the value that a harvester carries. All they are worried about are selling the highest number of them (volume), and not what they are worth (profit).

As I have said before, the value of a harvester should take into account what a player can get with it. If you look at resources, and the lowest value (more or less) of any resource is about 3cpu.

So, lets say a player buys something like 10 ber 10 medium mineral installations from you.

He then places these on a poor concentration (65%) because hes a newb.

That makes 6.5 units per minute each harvester, or 65 per minute from all.

65 x 60 = 3,900 units an hour or x 24 = 93,600 units a day, or x 3 = 280,000 credits a day.

Look at that, he spends one day in the ground and the harvesters pay for themselves. The actual value of a harvester to the BUYER is worth much much more than to the seller.

Perhaps you are charging based on how many resources you put into it. Let me say, that NO PROFESSION SAVE ARCHITECT is expected to, or actually does this.

Weaponsmiths, droid engineers, armorsmiths, blah blah what have you, NEVER EVER EVER charge based on their own cost. They charge based on the value of the item to a player. Not even doctors charge based on this.

Caution, scathing comment, and hell and I ever VERY prepared to be quoted on this, but I understand there are some more advanced economical concepts here that alot of you jacks just dont grasp. It doesnt matter what it costs you. It matters what it is worth to them.

And dont leave this out of the quote, but case in point, it costs the coca cola company something like eight cents to make a 20 ounce bottle of coke:

How much do you pay for it?

On the other hand of architect is the development team. They seem to be doing their damndest to keep degredation alive for EVERY other profession. Hell, the timeouts on droid and vehicle paint are just plain stupid short. But architect structures have none. At all. In any way. Save perhaps if someone doesnt pay their maint, but, because of the whole huge thing written above, its almost always cheeper to buy another one.

Of course, we all know about the broken furniture, the harvester bugs, the lamps that dont light, the rediculous resources required to make some chairs, and I could go on and on.

In the end, resources make or break this game. And who provides the only real (sampling doesnt count

) means of accessing them? Architects. The whole economy is based on architecture.

Without your harvesters, and withour your houses to put things in, the economy collapses. Even if every weaponsmith quit, everyone could go TKA. There is no other profession more important to a player based economy than the one that gives them their resources.

You people need to get a higher opinion of the worth of your wares, and stop undercutting each other. When a player thinks the price is too high once place, he might go to another. Guess what, just as often as leaving your place for someone elses, that player might turn up at your vendor and buy something. Raising your prices does not mean less business, but it HAS to be a community wide effort.

To close, I am not sad about leaving this profession. It was fun sometimes, but in the end, it was a giant hassle for the return that I got from it.

By the way, flaming replies are not warranted or required, norare the 'im glad your gone' posts.

Real input is, even if you disagree.

Keep it real archs, and TTFN,

Kales Alatami

Former Master Architect

Ahazi Galaxy

aaronhullett

Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:20 pm

#2

Another good idea may be further experimenatation to allow less power usage/maintance costs then it may actaully be worth gettingthe skill tapes

Ebonfire

Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:36 pm

#3

I hear doctor's complaining all the time about the lack of knowledgeplayers have abouthow buffs work, but I think it's x 10 when it comes to what players understand aboutour profession... heh andI think a lot of architects are just as clueless untill theyhave played the profession for a couple months.

Yesterday I was running through coronet with my PA on the way to Yavin, and someone sends me a tell.. "I need a large house". I toldhim that I was sorry because they are a waste of resources and I don't make them. He says, "I will pay well, how much do you want." I toldhim thatI value a large house at 180k if I build it. He says,"wow thatis rediculous, I hope you don't treat all your potential customers that way." I then ask him how much he would pay for 2 fusions... he saysabout 180 or200k. I replied, B-I-N-G-O takes about the same amount of resouces buddy. Still people sell them for half of their value for whatever reason. Oh well, if I thought I'd have more fun crafting something else then I'd do it.

Here is a letter I sent to people in my guild who always ask for dirt cheap harvester..

One thing you have to understand about being an architect is that we can’t mass produce anything without week’s worth of harvesting resources first. Here is a breakdown…

Wall modules (the base unit of almost all structures) takes ten structure modules, and in total takes 2200 ore and 800 metals. Now it may not seem that bad yet… but your basic heavy harvester takes 6 wall modules. Yeah that is 13.2k ore and 4800 metal before the other factory components come in.

Now lets look at a Deep Crust Chemical harvester..

6 wall modules = 18k resources
2 generator turbines [identical] = (1450 x 2) 2.9k resources
4 small structural storage module [identical] = 370 resources
2 turbo fluid drilling pump [identical] = 1.38k resources
Steel = 1200
Chemical = 400
Ore= 300

Total = 6 different resource types totaling 24.55k resources for one product.

Now at the current market value these resources would sell for well over 90k, and this make it very unprofitable for an Architect to go out and buy recourses because the profit margin is just not there. If you guys want discount stuff then you have to help provide the resources because I’m not going to go out a buy resources off the market to keep up with orders I have, and supplying discount harvesters to guild member at the same time.

====================================

Ebonfire Lightfist: Elder Jedi.. proud weilder of the Holy Glowstick of Antioch

Hammurabi: Master Medic & Politician.

Thelonious'Monk:Iconic Entertainer

- I support whine and cheese.

dantaglo

Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:53 pm

#4

I had started selling BER13 Harvesters at 130k but they go too FAST. I can't keep up so I raised the price to 170k and I hope that slows it down alittle.. but for the most part I use about 10k per BER in Heavies and 80k for a BER10 med and it seems to do ok

AzidarNath

Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:15 pm

#5

Check this out (assuming max BER on all items):

Heavy Mineral Harvester: 180,000

Fusion Plant 200,000

Medium Mineral80,000

Medium House 65,000

Large House 180,000

Those are samples of my prices on Bria. Except for the discounts I provide to the people living in Oz, I don't sell for less than that. Also, if I don't have something in stock, I may not feel like interrupting what I'm doing to make it either, in which case I use one of my most often used lines:

"You can try giving [insert name] or [insert name] a tell. They may have it in stock and/or cheaper prices."

If you're rude to me, my price goes up. If I lose patience with you, you get a referral to another architect.

One thing I DON'T do, is sweat about other people's pricing. Most of the folks dumping product into the market are transients, just grinding for a while then they get bored and leave. That's annoying as hell, but for those of us who have been architects since beta, we learn to deal with it. I probably sell to only 20% of the inquiries I get, for one reason or another, but it's plenty to keep me cash healthy. Not exactly rich, mind you, but steadily between 1 to 2 million credits. I could have tons more, but why? Crafting all the time is boring and there is more to the game than that anyway.

Sometimes, when I feel like exploring, I'll set my harvesters to just suck up good stuff and then I'll sell it wholesale. Nice money maker there too. And as an Architect, I can make whatever harvesters I need.

Sometimes it's all in the attitude. Master Architects are professionals. Just act like one. Don't sweat the amateurs.

------------------------------------------------------------
Korbyn Daxx
Master Shipwright
Daxx Shipyards, 200m East of Rebel Outpost on Rori, Bria.
------------------------------------------------------------

EnFERn0

Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:15 pm

#6

Here on Sunrunner my harvesters go for:

Medium Mineral - 35k

Medium others - 65k

Heavies - 130k

Half price if they for some reason dont have max BER

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Vek
Master Shipwright
Vendors at Naboo, Krath (5350 3610)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ThePhantomPoster

Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:34 pm

#7

Well said, Ebonfire.

Dvnce

Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:55 pm

#8

I always used to worry about what other people priced .. I even started an architectual association on my server.. But In the end I just quit caring.. And put out my harvesters.. I now stock almost at least 50 of each at all times on my vendor.. I am not the highest priced but I am by far not the lowest eather.. BER 13 range from 160-180k ..( and could easily go for higher).. I go through the starports and see people spamming all day that they are selling at prices that turn out to be almost 30-40% less than mine.. I simply shake my head.. If they want to leave that much money on the table so be it.. In the mean time.. I sell on average 20 harvesters a day .. (and that is a slow day ..)

And Here Is the Key.. I sell so many because .. I keep my vendor well stocked.. I know it is not practical to keep every type stocked.. I got lucky and hired a few of the greatest miners on any server.. that mine everything for a flat rate no matter what the qual.. but start at least with one or two types and do your best at keeping 30-50 in your vendor at all times.. I hear most often that people complain less about price but more about lack of inventory..

And as for the undercutters.. I dont believe .. Hey I mine my own stuff so I dont want to rip off the customers..( your not taking anyones last book of foodstamps for your merchandise) To me all I hear is.. I am new in this business and I am scared as hell there is not enough customers to go around.. Well.. You know what .. there is.. Saturation of our market will take longer than most fear.. Plus there are always new things going to be added.. Look at the new weapons that are coming out.. New things for us will come too..

And to the PhantomPoster.. sounds like you got a smart head on ure shoulder.. its a shame to loose you..

Imaka QuHurl

Im Not Dead Yet Careful I bite

Heed the warning

powerprophet

Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:59 pm

#9

former architect never thought I would love the profession until I did it (as a holo) man it was fun to see the cool stuff you could make all in all I agree stuff does get underpriced but on the Valcyn server I got together with some other architects at a "conference" and we sat down and decided that we will price this for the stuff no deals made (unless for the PA) worked great most of the times newbies that would get training from us would ask how much we charge stuff and they would sell it too but bottom line do what you love love what you do I made THE BEST harvestor I could everytime or else it would get tossed no matter what it cost me even if I had to make the harvestor 5 times I would only put the best on my vendor yes it cost a lot of money but it brought me more clients because they knew I did my best to get them the best...heck I haven't been an architect for months and people are asking me if I'm in the biz

bottom line is if your in architect to make money good idea but I joined architect to help people and that means the lower people that couldn't afford the BER 13's and I still sold them at a price they could afford that's a part of loving what you do to take a hit because you know your profession has helped someone just my two creds

Pawlin

Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:56 pm

#10

Pricing is tough in our trade. Customers get sticker shock pretty easily and its no surprise given how much a lot of our products cost. And for the most part customers just don't know what stuff costs. I'm the same when it comes to the goods of other crafters. e.g. I honestly don't know if 10k, 20k or 100k is a fair price for a probot cause I just don't know what all is involved in making them.

For the new guy, lower pricing is an obvious way to compete. When you're first starting out it can be hard to bring in business so pricing lower seems like an obvious way to get some sales. This can lead to getting into a business that doesn't make enough money to get by or if done right you can be a high volume, low profit margin setup.

Message Edited by Pawlin on 02-28-2004 07:42 PM

Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ
Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain

** Please refer to Elyssa's answer

Dvnce

Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:22 pm

#11

One of the best ways new people can get involved in the market when they start out.. .. Is To start off selling Walls.. and componants.. I know .. not very glamerous.. But what it does help you do is make easy quick cash.. enough to give you time to maintain your operation and collect enough resources to do an impressive shop opening with enough inventory to hold you over while you gather enough to make more.. Also getting in good with a veteran architect also opens the door for a great source of tips.. I Still know of many architects that dont know that if you crit fail on your first assembly .. You get a 2nd chance and can hit assemble again..

Patience is key.. a good business is set up with a strong foundation.. I barely had a100k credits ever my first few months as an architect ... but I wasnt in it just for the money .. and was in it for the long haul.. Now I have more money than Ill ever spend.. ( and I cant get myself to pay some of these prices on skill tapes lol) .. and It is all because I didnt need to be rich overnight..

Message Edited by Dvnce on 02-28-2004 07:59 PM

Imaka QuHurl

Im Not Dead Yet Careful I bite

Heed the warning

Pawlin

Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:54 pm

#12

Good advice Dvnce.

Thinking long term is a key to success.

Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ
Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain

** Please refer to Elyssa's answer

aaronhullett

Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:17 am

#13

On infinity atm people are moaning at me for charging 110k for BER13 minerals harvesters but this is only 4cpu and I spent alot more than that getting some of the resources I needed .Its just a pity nobody respects the architech profession one of the main problems is people undercutting each other and architechs standing divided but noone is willing to do anything about

.I understand why you are leaving I could make alot more money just laying a field of harvesters and it would be alot less hassle/skill points

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