Architect Archive
Thread: Sick of undercutting. Making a statement.
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Dakevsta
Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:01 pm
#1
My alt is going for master arch, and id like to join everyone in keeping prices reasonable for architect income. This undercutting is completely ridiculous, and something needs to be done about it. Heres the beauty of having 2 accounts: INCOME INCOME INCOME! I can have dozens of houses stocked at any given second, and im going to use these 4-5 CPU price structures as most of you are. and I dont care how much money it takes, im going to keep it there to make a statement. I can be financially stable with the amount of money i make on my combat char.
I wont budge.Im not going to undercut, I wont even make a cent if I have to. If no one buys anything, if anyone whines about it, tough. I want people to know whats going on in the architect world.
kevmo911
Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:17 pm
#2
okay, fine. as long as you're happy, life is good. i applaud you for your efforts and your commitment to your goals. as for me, though it's been said many times by many people, i will continue to undercut like a madman.
i sell all heavies for 90k. i have 8 static heavies and 8 mobile heavies, all minerals, and i buy all other resources (polymer, lube oil, reactive gas, specials for master furniture, radioactive energy, etc.),though only at 2cpu or less. i have 2 structure factories, 1 equipment factory (master artisan items for power cores and crafting stations, and random odds and ends), and a med house with 5 public vendors and a storage vendor. i do spend a lot of time doing the architect thing (i have no and have never had any alts). i have stocked vendors for harvesters, crafting stations, furniture, houses and other city items, and just plain stuff. and i gotta tell ya, i make a pretty decent amount of money.
i've been an architect for a few months, and currently i sell almost everything at 3.0 to 3.2 cpu, with certain items at much more (guildhalls, city halls, and crafting stations, for example). i would say, without exaggeration, that on an average day (with very very few days less and plenty of days more and far far more) i pull inanywhere between 200k and 1 million, with an overall average of probably close to a million.
i have my 8 mobiles always going on ore, almost always at 65+% (and i really don't spend much time surveying), and i usually have my statics on the highest % of ore. i buy most of my aluminum, copper, and steel from random vendors or the bazaar.
i have lots of toys. i have more money than i know what to do with. and i love my job. to me, my products are worth what people will pay for them. and i sell my harvesters at 90k because people will pay that much for them. and you'd better believe that somebody who finds a place with a good selection of harvesters cheaper than anybody else around will keep coming back for more. again and again and again.
so ...i have nothing against selling harvesters for 125k or more, in fact, i would love to make that much from a harvester sale. but my 90k gets me not only a good profit but a promise that the people that buy them will be coming back for more. so take your 125k or your 4-5 cpu and be very happy with it. i wish you the best. but all i keep thinking is that i keep seeing posts about happy people selling 1-2 125k heavies per day, or 20k small houses, or what have you, and all i can think of is that i'm happy too, except that i sell a whole lot more. but then again, as i've stated, it's all about what makes you happy.
- adolka
Dvnce
Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:43 pm
#3
kevmo911 wrote:
so ...i have nothing against selling harvesters for 125k or more, in fact, i would love to make that much from a harvester sale. but my 90k gets me not only a good profit but a promise that the people that buy them will be coming back for more. so take your 125k or your 4-5 cpu and be very happy with it. i wish you the best. but all i keep thinking is that i keep seeing posts about happy people selling 1-2 125k heavies per day, or 20k small houses, or what have you, and all i can think of is that i'm happy too, except that i sell a whole lot more. but then again, as i've stated, it's all about what makes you happy.
- adolka
please dont take this wrong cuz I dont mean this in any ill intent... but .. why is it that you think you could not sell just as many for 125k if not for more?
I sell on average 150+ medium and heavy harvesters a week.. My mediums are in the 69k range.. and my heavies are in the 175k range .... when there are people selling for 25k and 120k range perspectively....
Tunturi
Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:32 pm
#4
Once Dev's make it more expensive and time consuming, you'll see a drop in cross server lot trading... This will cause people to raise there prices, as CPU prices will rise on materials... Right now there a joke. Guys with 100+Harvesters are selling materials for 1-2 cpu and screwing up the economy... And to all you who say, how are they screwing it up...
They sell the2 cpu in 100k stacks only, so only the rich can buy them, the poor are screwed having to harvest there own materials with just a few harvesters or buy off the bazaar for 5-6 cpu.... So the rich buy bulk and are able to sell there products cheap. There the ones that say theres no problem with the system now because there profitting from it while everyone is basicaly screwed because they can't compete with them.... As far as i'm concerned Cross Server Trading is CHEATING period... I would luv if the dev's banned the accounts of people cross trading 
serve em right...
serve em right...
Jonni
Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:57 pm
#5
selling stuff cheap may get you fast business but selling it expensive gets you the same cash for less work, personally i go out and buy the undercutters wares like medium houses for 55k then sell em for 100k even less work for me and i make almost as good profit as when i make em myself but this way i also get to stockpile from my harvesters ready for JTL, so hehe keep selling low if ya like im just gonna buy up all your stuff and sell your hard work for more money and achieve my other goals all at once.
Teelor
Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:03 am
#6
Hehe,
Adolka, Keep up the good work man. I also sell for less than some of the ridiculously pricedvendorsI see out and about. I dont make much money now compared to whatI used to butI make enough cash to get by. Im not surprised you make so much cash if your selling stuff at affordable prices in what afterall is a computer game. I know some ppl like to roleplay, but a lot of people just take this far too seriously. If your having a problem with ppl who think they are smart by buying alll your stock and whacking a hefty increase on it then just add "buy this for xxx at xxxx -xxxx" onto the deed at the completion stage. That puts them off buying them and wipes the smirk from their greedy little faces. Then when ppl realise how much they are being charged, chances are they wont buy from them again EVER.
Teelor Vaas
Master Architect/Artisan
Ahazi
Sadlateen
Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:45 am
#7
Truth is there is nothing wrong with "undercutting" id still be selling for 3cpu but got sick of refilling my 200+ item vendors 3 times a day so Iincreased my prices to 5-6 CPU for fernature and 3-5 still on buildings (I will not sell a small house for more then 10K) profits have droped some yes I know the people complaining about undercuttes will disagree but thay have. Now I dont do harvesters just so you know where im coming from. But as an archatect I do not need high qualaty resorces or anything rare. its all grind qualaty junk thats super easy to get shoot I can even do it with a rotation of only 3 harvesters running at 1 time. (there is really no "need" for lot swaoing as I see it just smart harvesting)
But again the issue with pricing is not undercutters but the lack of a stabelising feature for base prices like a full mining profession its way to easy to say that resorces X is "worth"10 cpu (because thats what somebody would pay for it) but really only costs 1.5 cpu to harvest and with everybody harvesting there own resorces. who is to say its wrong for a person to base prices on real "cost" of harvesting rather then "worth"? truth is neather side can honestly say the other iswrong. its a choice both bring in a good profit. I for 1 think some people are way over priced around here but I dont start threads trying to say there wrong and thay shouls lower there prices now do I?
So go ahead and price how you see fit. buy and resel from "undercutting" archatects (thats your right as well) but please stop posting new threads about the topic. nobody even you has the right to dictate how another person prices there goods. And Starting threads like this saying that the so called "undercutters" are doing somthing wrong is just rude and insulting. And its kind of sad that your bosting about supporting by your combat char proves your not a real "archatect" but just a twank mule that you hope in time will bring in alot of money for you. (some would consider that cheating but we wont go in to that here)
Sevardos
Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:23 am
#8
Teelor wrote:
Hehe,
Adolka, Keep up the good work man. I also sell for less than some of the ridiculously pricedvendorsI see out and about. I dont make much money now compared to whatI used to butI make enough cash to get by. Im not surprised you make so much cash if your selling stuff at affordable prices in what afterall is a computer game. I know some ppl like to roleplay, but a lot of people just take this far too seriously. If your having a problem with ppl who think they are smart by buying alll your stock and whacking a hefty increase on it then just add "buy this for xxx at xxxx -xxxx" onto the deed at the completion stage. That puts them off buying them and wipes the smirk from their greedy little faces. Then when ppl realise how much they are being charged, chances are they wont buy from them again EVER.
Teelor Vaas
Master Architect/Artisan
Ahazi
LOL. Exactly who is taking it too seriously? lol If this is just a game as you say (and I don't disagree, it is just a game), then what the hell do you care if people are charging more than you, or if people are buying your product and reselling it? It's just a game afterall.
So again, who is taking this too seriously? My pricing is on the high side and not because I'm roleplaying - although being a merchant has become more fun than I thought it would be, I usually only play battle configs - it's because I don't want to spend ALL my time just crafting and want to balance that with playing other parts of the game as well.
As to the original undercutter response person, based on your claim, you and I make roughly the same amount of profit on Architect products daily - but I'm only selling 1/4 of what you are (based on quick calculations on your ~1M per day). At 90K, thats about 40-50K profit each sale. I sell 2 to 3 harvesters a day at the 170K range - but my profit margins are higher so I can sell less and not have to constantly stock my vendor. I prefer it that way because I can do other things in the gamethan just be a stockroom monkey. And I've been selling at that price for 2 months now and yes, I do have repeat customers. They seem to like the fact they I'm always stocked and don't have to hunt around to find a full architect vendor. That convenience alone seems to be enough for them.
But it's your $$$ to SOE, you do want you want.
There are far too many people who think the only way to sell is to drop your drawers. /shrug
Mkappus
Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:37 am
#9
There is no such thing as undercutting. There are no established prices for anything, this is an open economy. Everyone is free to buy and sell as they please. Just because people don't follow your economic model does not mean they are undercutting.
There are numerous ways to generate business and succeed.
On 2 points.
1. The fact that you are using your combat character to supplant income for your crafter so you don't price low is funny to me. My crafter has always made 10x the money my combat guy has. I don't undercut for the public, 125k for heavies or so. But for my PA I sell much much cheaper. At 2 cpu I am still making a profit. Resources are dirt cheap to produce, under .75 cpu.
2. Good resource people sell all size lots of resources for similar prices. I breakup my blocks into 5k, 10k, 25k, 100k and sell them all of the same price, 2 cpu. I buy these resources in bulk from people for 1.5cpu and resell for 2 cpu. 33% profit seems fine to me. Not everyone just caters to the rich.
KRONOS1974
Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:17 am
#10
Anyone that sells heavies under 100k is on crack.
The time spent to make items, plus amount of resources, and value the buyer can make off one heavy is well worth more than 100k. I make 100's of harvesters at a time, it takes me a long time to make structure modules, then walls. THen on top of that each component needed, plus final assembly run. Thats a long time. But i guess someone making 1-3 by hand it takes less time maybe, but still you architects need to learn THE VALUE of your products before you sell.
People that sell items on cpu are bad crafters, and even worse "merchants".
Our products are worth a lot more than what you people are selling them for.
Architects should stick together and sell around the same price, not try to take business away from each other by selling for 10-20k less.
ZenDragonMLS
Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:10 pm
#11
I have *never* seen a case where calling someone an "undercutter" or a "price gouger" has produced a dialog that added any value to the world.
I have never seen a case yet where people talking about pricing have honestly discussed different business models. If you think that Nordstrom and Walmart have the same business models and customer base then I'm not sure what value you can add to a discussion. Prices are NOT the only thing that matters in a business!
What I do see is people who are not making the money that they imagine they would like pointing their fingers at the guy down the street rather than looking at their OWN business model.
Before you complain about "that SOB undercutter down the street", ask yourself these questions:
1. How long have they been in business? How long have I been in business?
2. How much of their business is repeat business vs. "new name" customers? How about my business?
3. Do they offer any additional goods or services (e.g, do they discount? do they throw in some power with each harvester sold? do they offer decorating suggestions?) What about me? What *additional* value do I supply to my customers.
4. How much do they adverise? How much do I advertise?
5. Are they set up to get more "foot traffic" than I am?
If you aren't selling things, then *the most likely cause* is ...... YOU. Are YOU doing all you can do to get business? My suggestion is that if you focus on YOUR business rather than the guy down the street you will get to the point where you won't have to ask these questions, since you will be making lots of money.
firennice
Tue Jun 29, 2004 2:41 pm
#12
Too many dont take into account the surroudings ...the planet or server. I am on Rori, on Tempest server. My medium minerals aer 30k others run 50k, and heavies 100k. I have few buyers exept those that come to our town.
Also the server prices seem to be lower that other servers. I have no other master architects on the planet, but a number of small crafters.
All of these need to be taken into account.
try and price 200k heavies on tempest on rori....and you are doomed.
try it on bria...near theed, coronet you will be fine.
also some are part time archies others are full
some want to hold no inventory, some allways want inventory
some want only special orders others want to allways have in stock
dont compare apples and oranges.
Mkappus
Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:10 pm
#13
Zendragon said it best. It is about what you have to offer. If you keep a vendor stocked and a customer knows they can get anything and everything they want on a vendor everytime they come to your shop they will pay a premium. I only build to order and take a few days to deliver, so I discount somewhat for not having to carry inventory.
Then there are those who are desperate and spam at Theed or Coronet, so they lower prices.
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