Architect Archive
Thread: Architecture: the abandonment of our chosen profession by SOE
I've given this a lot of thought, & I have inevitably come to the conclusion that SOE devs hate us. Yes, that's right, the Devs hate architects, & crafters in general. Consider the first point: We, unlike the vast majority of professions, get only 50pts of crafting experimentation at max. We are the only persons available who can make a PA hall; yet the demand for these specialty structures is very, very low. Our maint & energy requirements on structures is essential to stability; yet they made those costs exhorbitant. Unlike many other archies, I have but a couple of harvesters, & do not have access to teh myriad friends networks for additional harvesters. For those of you with the support essential to becoming master architects, I say Kudos to you! I have, however, chosen to do it the hard way; I have an extremely limited number of harvesters, all in the mid range.
So, all things being equal, I am very near to quitting our chosen profession. The reason? I cannot compete. Lets face it... The devs made us as a class simply to satisfy the demand by hordes of people that they explore crafting. That does not imply that they like us, or saw our class as a necessity to game balance. Nor does it imply that they will continue to render us aid in the form of desperately needed fixes. Take, for prime example, the recent patch. Nearly every other profession got fixes to some of their long term bug issues; yet we Archies got nothing. Nada. We were left out in the cold cold void, & are likely to stay there.
Lets look at another reason. Those pitiable newbs out there who also (& thankfully) want to be architects. They too wish to be competitive. Again, nothing wrong with that.... most if not all of us want the same thing. So, like any good money minded person, they undercut the competition. Severely & without let, they undercut us. When a med house is selling for under 40k, (& larges are beginning to drop under 100k.... and let alone the PA hall, which i recently saw for sale in Bestine at 300k!) there is no profit whatsoever for the hardworking high tier architect. What to do, what to do.....
Rather than drive the high tier archi out of the field, I am proposing some fixes. Yes, this will hurt a few, but it will at the same time STOP the craziness of the low end users from raping the worlds of minerals & flooding the market with too cheap product. There are of course workarounds, as with any proposed fix, but this WILL give us some short term & eventall long term benefits. These fixes will, IMHO, prevent the eventual dropping of our profession.
What I propose is this:
1. Remove admin & hopper permissions from harvesters altogether. Before you all begin to howl 'WHINER!!!" read on, & pause to think about & absorb what I have to say.... If a crafter can no longer share the harvesters of their friends, they are limited to only what they are given/can buy. (this will have the added effect of stopping that ugly urban blight, but that is a mere side effect bonus, & isnt really worth consideration here). This also has the effect of stopping those mass miners out there who have nothing better to do than flood the market with expensiveresources that the bazaar supported archi cannot afford (i recently saw more than 40k units of ore up on the bazaar, in lots of 500 for 3kcr, all offered by the same individual!)
2. Add a 5 lot per tier bonus to the architect profession. This will provide the architect (& i do mean all of us!) with continuing incentive to remain in our profession. If only architects receive this, then only Architects will be mining for ores again, & those few other crafters who require mined resources likewise will have the resources of their 10 lots available to them.
3. Increase the maintenance cost on all structures. Lets face it folks, without that buildings decay, there isn't a need for our services beyond the initial construction. We are building ourselves out of a profession with every structure we make!
4. Provide a small reduction in maintenance to architects at Novice level, & a larger reduction at Master level. I am not saying that our costs should run to zero for maint, but they should be at least as low as the Master Merchant reductions go for maintenance!
5. Place STRICT limits on the game lifespan of structures! Come on folks, the reality is that equipment, no matter how good it is, wears out. Companies & people all eventaully replace what they have, simply due to the fact that gear WEARS OUT!. Now matter how well you maintain an item, eventally it breaks, or is destroyed. Certainly, proper maintenance will extend the life of any given piece of equipment, but nothing can stop the inevitable march of entropy.
6. Finally, Increase the level of Architect Experimentation to the level of every other class out there! Honestly, this one is so self explanatory that I need say nothing further on it.
We all know that there are a lot of fanbois out there who are going to flame this... I say let them! At the very least, the flaming will allow this thread to continue floating to the top! Hells above and below, if there are enough flames, someone is going to look at this thread to see what all the fuss is about, & perhaps it will eventally come to the attention of the devs! That, or they will eventually lock down this thread.... Regardless, these thought which I place here are my considerations of our chosen profession... I think I am reflecting at least a few of you out there.
My main goal here is to provide a place where we architects can voice out our disillusionment with SOE over their abandonment of our beloved profession, and perhaps to get people thinking about what they are doing to us with their distince lack of consideration.
DO NOT LET SOE DROP US! Cry out! Be heard! Do NOT let them remove us, nor allow them to disillusion us with the profession as a whole!
Even if you totally disagree with me, post your arguements here! MAKE THEM HEAR US! Pro or con does not matter; keep this thread at the top, & they eventually will look at us, & our profession. IF (& I do mean IF) we raise a large enough hue & cry, they WILL hear us, and that, my friends & fellow architects, is EXACTLY what we want/require!
Given the recent item storage changes, do you think that increased structure maintenance rates, and degrading houses will help the architect sell more goods?
As a matter of fact I do believe those recent issues will aid us as architects. Considering the increased amount of storage, there is a far greater chance for the consumer to lose out, & lose very very big. What will happen if their homes are gone, along with everything within? Who will they come to? Why, to their architect, of course. Further, They will want some form of surety that gives them a measure of protection versus a potential loss. This will of course come in the form of another deed. (You guessed it right, many non archi players will come to view having a spare deed as a form of insurance!)
Again, keep the faith, & post your arguments!
*cough* increased amount of storage *cough*
As things stand today, I'm going to be hard pressed to sell furniture.
What will happen if their homes are gone, along with everything within? Who will they come to? Why, to their architect, of course.
I also don't think players will accept their houses (with a backpack full of all of their resources) exploding. Nor their harvesters (with enough money and power for the week) exploding. Not acceptable. And if houses did just pop out of existance, and people needed to buy more, I for one would be moving my base of operations to The Bank and Public Crafting Stations. Screw that.
Nice post, and thanks for not slamming anything/anyone. This class needs more people like you.
40k Units in lots of 500 isn't possible since the Bazaar restricts you to 25 lots.
The main flaw in your post is that you seem to think that Architects should also be miners. I think that if SOE were to read your post then they would suggest that Architects don't have any more right to extra lots or cheaper harvesters than anyone else has... that should be given to a new profession, The Miner(old actually since it was removed before release).
I understand your concerns and agree that there are problems with the economy, but I'm not sure your approach would make any difference. The first step is to remove sample macroing as a means of getting free resources at the rate of a Heavy Harvester. SOE tried this, but unfortately fell short with their solution. The next steps would be to give Architects some ongoing involvement with existing structures such as providing Structure Maintenance tools or Relocation permits.
Item decay is great for a player-driven economy, but unfortunately we currently don't benefit from it.
Mantyss Xin'Shou
Gorath
More lots are definitly required and should be allowed more to Architects only. That's all I have to agree with.
I agree with a lot of it, and if SOE doesn't add an Elite Miner Profession with the reduced costs of harvesters, and increased lots, then they need to give it to the architect, who requires soooo many resources.
If you think we should have more storage than post on the Petition for Functional Houses.
The problem for Doctors (and I imagine Combat Medics) is that some things must be made in a private station. A public isn't even good enough (I need to confirm this as I did all my crafting at my house anyway where I *had* access to lots of components). I guess the DE's will have a field day as poor-arse doctors like me give up their houses in order to buy droid with private crafting modules.
I envision a ring of doctor owned factories surrounding towns as doctors try to stay close to all the resources that will be trapped in their Safety Deposit boxes. Hrm...I guess there will be more doctors in the cities and possibly in the med centers now.
Agree with almost all of it. Opposition will come from those with large guilds providing them with resources. That is inevitable. For the record.. Droid Eng exp numbers are 5-'s too. (read that somewhere earlier) Something needs to be done for sure.. id hate to be a novice arch today..
the SINGLE biggest thing is that decay needs to be put inon all structures or you may as well leave thistrade now. There is only so many houses and harvesters to be built till all have them.. thats a FACT.. when that happens and there is no decay.. thre wont be a single sale made.. not one.. New players? hahaha. If no decay is added.. game over.. simple fact.
1) All this will do is make it harder for independent crafters to get the resources they need, relative to PA's. So crafting guilds will have an even larger advantage over independents. Also, so what if mass harvestors are selling lots of resources for expensive prices on the bazaar? How does that affect you or any other architect? If you don't want to pay their prices, then don't buy off the bazaar, it's that simple. This just sounds like sour grapes to me.
2) Adding 5 lots for architects only will only mean that everyone who needs many lots will become architects. They will need to grind through the architect profession to get those extra lots, meaning they will be building more houses and harvestors and dumping them cheap to recover their costs. This would ultimately be self-defeating for architects.
I'm not an architect, but if architects got 5 extra lots I would certainly go out of my way to get those lots, and I make plenty of money selling power to subsidize grinding through architect.
3) Increasing maintenance cost won't do anything to help architects sell more structures. Either people will pay the increased maintenance, or they won't buy structures at all. They aren't going to buy a 15K small house and then decide to let it burn down because the maintenance costs are too high.
4) Again, I don't see why architects should get a reduction in maintenance costs. If architects are suffering from maintenance costs, so are many other crafters. Besides, don't most architects also go into Merchant, which grants reduced maintenance costs with Efficiency IV?
5) The reason we pay maintenance on structures is to keep them from wearing out. In RL, well maintained buildings can last for centuries.
I've said this many times, and I'll say it once more, forced irreversible structure decay will destroy the architect profession. Excuse my rudeness, but I think I need to yell to get this idea through: HOMES ARE NOT A NECESSITY FOR MOST PROFESSIONS!!! Warriors need good guns and armor, and they are willing to pay a lot of money for them, but they don't really need homes, harvestors, factories, etc. A home is just a trophy for these people. They are not going to spend 1 credit, let along 15K, 50K or 100K for a house that will burn down no matter what. Especially if they have to pay increased maintenance on top of that.
A second point on this: forced structure decay will hurt suffering crafter professions even more if they have to replace their expensive factories and harvestors every month or so. Many crafters (except maybe weapon and armorsmiths) are complaining that they can barely keep up with maintenance costs, so where are they going to get the money to buy whole new structures every month or two.
Also, I would like to point out that I have bought a lot of guns in this game, but never because I wore one out. I buy new guns when I find a better one(which leads into item #6 below).
6) This is the only point I agree with you on, and this is the only thing that can save the architect profession: structure experimentation. Architects need to be able to build harvestors, factories and homes with varying stats and abilities so that there is some product differentiation. I would seriously consider replacing my solar generators if I could find ones that were more productive, required less maintenance, had larger hoppers, etc.
SOE is not trying to kill off architects. Rather, architects are the victims of the economic and market dynamics of this game. Everyone needs a good gun, most people need good armor, but no one really needs a house (unless you're a crafter or merchant). The simple fact is that there are a lot of suppliers (architects) and not enough demand. Some of this will change as architects get frustrated and switch professions, thus reducing the supply of structures in the game.
I wasn't trying to flame you, just my 2-creds worth. Hope this helps.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis, Mos Eisley
Almsman wrote:
1. Remove admin & hopper permissions from harvesters altogether. Before you all begin to howl 'WHINER!!!" read on, & pause to think about & absorb what I have to say.... If a crafter can no longer share the harvesters of their friends, they are limited to only what they are given/can buy. (this will have the added effect of stopping that ugly urban blight, but that is a mere side effect bonus, & isnt really worth consideration here). This also has the effect of stopping those mass miners out there who have nothing better to do than flood the market with expensiveresources that the bazaar supported archi cannot afford (i recently saw more than 40k units of ore up on the bazaar, in lots of 500 for 3kcr, all offered by the same individual!)
OK I don't understand this point.
You want to decrease the lots to decrease production of resources by miners but this will decrease the availability of resources which will increase the cost of resources. Yet you seem to be complaining about mass miners flooding the market with expensive resources. Why would mass miners sell at higher prices? And do you want to increase or decrease cost of resources on the market?
The main point you made that I can agree with 100% is that they should cause houses to deteriorate. That will help us avoid a housing crash that will likely occur once everyone that wants a house has bought it.
Pawlin
First off being an architect should be hard. Very few architects are needed to supply the demand out their. Only a few successful people need to make it, and that is the way the system is shaking out. Its a shame that not everyone who wants to be an architect can be and prosper at it, but that is the way it should be.
Also, miners flooding the bazaar with high priced ore that I can't afford? That statement makes no sense. Granted maybe you can't afford it, but flooding the bazaar would cause prices to drop not increase.
Devs don't have us, don't be silly. We are all customers and we all pay the same fees. However, I do think the devs were shocked at pa halls being made in the first 2 weeks of the game, and at the amount of houses being built.
They are reigning things in some to match a more realistic and sustainable level of play. The more people that drop architect and move to bounty hunter, the more sustainable the profession comes. By making things a little harder they are actually making the profession more viable.