Architect Archive
Thread: The Pricing Debate
Page 1 of 4
JeCy
Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:11 pm
#1
Just mine good stuff. with 10 harvesters and sell it for 5-8 cpu and you will make tons more money... archtect undercutting has been going around since launch and its not going to change You can mine good resources with about an hour a work a week and make 3-6 mill a week easy... why would you waste your time busting A$$
Boromiere
Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:07 pm
#2
Personally, I use the 3cpu model for everything except the quality steel and metal thats needed for the final construct and the drilling/mining unit. That I believe I have in my model as 8 or 10. Then I add an extra 25% markup to that price, and that's my final price.
I hate to tell you, that my harvesters range from 99k - 112k.
I also have to pay for everything myself (nothing free for me either). I run 1 account, but I do have cross server lot trades. I dump about 1 million in maintenance per month into my static farm and about 400k of power.
I do not buy any resources from anyone, this allows me to keep my prices down. I am also located on Lok, so a little lower prices are needed to draw people here until I am known as a guy who always has his vendors stocked.
My vendor is always stocked with approx 15 of each heavy and 5 of each house (all sizes).
Jutewr
Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:13 pm
#3
I don't know if this helps, as I only sell furniture, but my formula is 13 cpu. (I just copied it over from my tailor pricing system.) This gives me a range of 1k for candles to 12k for a master couch.
Pawlin
Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:31 pm
#4
Protilious wrote:
...
I'm wondering, for those of you in the same situation as me, what do you use as a pricing guide? Do you use your competition to guide your pricing? Do you have a formula you use? Do you just try to clear a certain CPU profit margin? I guess I fall in the category of pricing according to what it costs me to produce + the amount of time and effort involved. If my competition sells for far less, I won't lower my price unless I think I am truly asking too much (considering my costs mind you).
So what is your formula?
Short answer: My price system is kind of a loose collection of all of the above plus random math errors.
Longer answer:
Here's my standard macro comment on prices:
"Specific prices that you choose are going to be very server dependent. No price is too high if your customers will gladly pay it and no price is too low if you make a good enough profit."
My own personal price structure has just kind of 'evolved'...
When I first started I think I had a straight CPU price. I think it was in the 3-5 cpu range. If I recall right I also had higher cpu rates for items higher up the skill tree since that made sense. I think I was on the cheaper side compared to the competition. Then I was getting way too much business to keep up around the holo grind boom so I increased my prices. I was going to increase it 10% but I think I just did +5k for mediums and +10k for heavies give or take. But I'm not sure. My prices have been fairly stable for a while with a little tweaking (mostly up) on occasion. Like I noticed that fusions seemed to fly off my vendors so I jacked up the price. Right now I range mostly around 4-5 cpu for heavies. I charge more for gas since they require a lot more of the higher quality materials compared to other harvesters. Waters are a fairly high cpu rate for me since they don't take much to make but people don't seem to have a problem spending as much for them so while they are cheaper than my other harvesters the cpu rate is higher.
My prices are also really heavily influenced with the cost of raw materials. I can fairly easily buy materials for about 2 cpu including grind ore. I would never intend to sell finished deeds for less cpu than what I spend on the raw materials. So 2 cpu is my baseline for material costs and I expect a profit on top of that. I could mine the stuff for 0.5 cpu. But I also consider what the raw materials are worth. I won't take ore worth 2 cpu, spend time and effort turning into deeds and then charge less than 2 cpu. I'd rather go fishing than subsidize miner's capital expenditures.
I also do take into account my competition. Its fairly stable on our server lately. And I"m not going to bounce my prices up and down on a weekly basis just cause some new guy is cheap. But I do want to keep my prices in the general ball park of my competition. So for example if everyone was charging 90k then I wouldn't try to get 180k. I think I'm probably about 20% higher than the average price on my server. I wouldn't want to push it too much more than that.
For paintings I have been charging 16k. That was almost an arbitrary choice. When they first came out nobody knew what to charge. I think I first started charging 32k for them. Then one of the other architects was selling for 16k so I just decided to match that. I think I'm a ways higher than the average on my server for paintings, but a few k isn't that big of a deal for most people. I know 5-10k might matter for a newbie but if they want to spend their money on paintings then they shouldn't be whining about the cost if they cant afford it. I don't sell a lot of paintings but thats OK, its only a small sideline for me. I leave that business for hungrier folks.
I've also taken to selling loot posters recently and pricing for those is an entirely different matter. For those the price is entirely based on the market. People have been auctioning Freedom posters for a few hundred K so I chose to charge 400k. I've mostly matched what people seem to pay and what other people are charging.
For crafting stations I charge 42k.I think originally someone else (Vorc) was charging 1k per rating point and I matched that. Its arbitrary but works well enough. The cpu is pretty high but they do require very high quality materials and a master artisan, master architect and master droid engineer. Seems a lot of people are in that same neighborhood on the 40-50k price range even across servers. I think most people had the same 1k per rating point arbitrary price at some point and it just kind of stuck. However I"m probably going to tweak that up to 50k cause I just broke 44.0. Plus Isander said he's charging like 45-50k aleady for his 43.9's and I have not reason to undercut him. Theres only a couple of us selling 43-44 stations. ONe other person has some 44.9's from magic Temporary Tuesday but they are the only one and they charge 149k each. The suppliers can easily dictate the price for this one.
Every situation is different. So I don't think any one basic formula will work perfectly for every situation. I think the best starting point is value of raw materials + profit margin and stay in the ballpark of the competition. Then go from there.
Dvnce
Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:05 pm
#5
I tend to Charge based on Rate of Return for the customer... I try to price at a rate where it will take the buyer 4 or 5 days of harvesting on a average quality resource to make a return on their investment.. I also adjust this price + or - 10% or so based on my mood at the time of loading them on the vendor... ( you can imagine that my Miners never get the 10% discount after dealing with ore mining units 
)
)
bluejanus
Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:18 pm
#6
I can't recall whose pricing model I used. But I searched until I found an architect who posted his online and used that as a baseline. I generally edited it to go down and charged on a cpu. Furniture goes around 3-10 cpu. It used to be 3-5 cpu, except that hunters aren't going to get hide for 5 cpu for architects when they can hunt meat for docs for 100 cpu. On other products like paintings and crafting stations, I've adopted models using the pricing scales of other sellers. I think my current crafting station pricing scale is based on an older Pawlin scale that he doesn't use anymore.
dantaglo
Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:27 am
#7
God it's been so Long, I just made a price list and I dont change lol..
Puertoriqueno
Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:59 am
#8
My prices vary heavilly...I would say that at least half the time I get free resources and power. The other half of the time I am harvesting them myself. We have a guild harvesting farm so we all contribute....therefore my prices really would not match the current market, so to avoid killing my fellow honest architects trying to get by I sell about 80 percent of my goods in bulk. I usually avoid keeping a large stock on my vendors...here are my usual vendor price ranges....
Furniture
Level one - 250 to 500
Level two - 1000 to 1250
Level three - 1500 to 2000
rare items - from 5000 to 10000
Houses
Small - 4000 to 7000
Medium - 10000 to 12500
Large - 35000 to 50000
PA Hall and city structures - usually around 100k
Harvesters
Ber 1 to 4 - 500
Ber 5 to 10 - 1000 to 20000
Ber 11 to 14 - 25000 to 50000
Stations and tools
Tools below 10% - 100
Tools above 10% - 1000
Stations below 30% - 2000 to 10000
Stations above 30% - 15000 to 25000
That is the usual range. It has alot to do with whether or not I had to mine the resources or got them from the guild. I usually pass on any savings to my customers and keep the same profit margin. I have a good solid customer base that buys in bulk however, and they rarely pay more than 25 percent of the prices listed since they buy so much at once. I have been known to sell Ber 13 heavies for 10k each in bulk.
Protilious
Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:59 am
#9
Greets,
I peruse these boards often, but I almost never post about pricing because it usually is only a matter of time before it turns ugly.
I read about some people selling stuff very low, and very high. I try to stay in the middle and while I don't condone the undercutting, I recognize it is completely 'fair' to do so.
A while ago I started realizing that I was feeling fatigued 'playing' this game as an architect, running 20 lots, grabbing resources, running short on some, dumping schematics... we all know the routine. I get nothing for free so I'm pretty darn busy.
In real life I'm married, full time job etc so I look to make things easy for myself when I get to log on. That means buying some resources I fall short of.
And now after reading all the back and forth on pricing, I'm not sure what's reasonable anymore. I mean I pay 3.5 cpu for a lot of 'grind' quality stuff, I try to harvest the rest, but you factor in travel cost, factory expenses, vendor costs... none of this is free for me anyway. So what IS the fair thing to do? The other factors include the fact our stuff never dies unless it is mistreated, while a decaying suit of armour will go for much more than a heavy harvester.
So I've concluded I'll do what's best for me while keeping this game 'fun'. That means it has to be worthwile for me to spend my time online gathering, maintaining, and selling my wares. If the day comes that a lot of vendors start selling Heavies for 100k, that's when I'll drop the profession. I don't think I'd make 10K on that... and that's not worth it. I'll sell some silly piece a tape I looted off some space hobo instead.
Some people have a great advantage... the advantage of payed for vendors, free housing, free resources. I'm not one of those fortunate few but I think those types are in the minority.
I'm wondering, for those of you in the same situation as me, what do you use as a pricing guide? Do you use your competition to guide your pricing? Do you have a formula you use? Do you just try to clear a certain CPU profit margin? I guess I fall in the category of pricing according to what it costs me to produce + the amount of time and effort involved. If my competition sells for far less, I won't lower my price unless I think I am truly asking too much (considering my costs mind you).
So what is your formula?
I peruse these boards often, but I almost never post about pricing because it usually is only a matter of time before it turns ugly.
I read about some people selling stuff very low, and very high. I try to stay in the middle and while I don't condone the undercutting, I recognize it is completely 'fair' to do so.
A while ago I started realizing that I was feeling fatigued 'playing' this game as an architect, running 20 lots, grabbing resources, running short on some, dumping schematics... we all know the routine. I get nothing for free so I'm pretty darn busy.
In real life I'm married, full time job etc so I look to make things easy for myself when I get to log on. That means buying some resources I fall short of.
And now after reading all the back and forth on pricing, I'm not sure what's reasonable anymore. I mean I pay 3.5 cpu for a lot of 'grind' quality stuff, I try to harvest the rest, but you factor in travel cost, factory expenses, vendor costs... none of this is free for me anyway. So what IS the fair thing to do? The other factors include the fact our stuff never dies unless it is mistreated, while a decaying suit of armour will go for much more than a heavy harvester.
So I've concluded I'll do what's best for me while keeping this game 'fun'. That means it has to be worthwile for me to spend my time online gathering, maintaining, and selling my wares. If the day comes that a lot of vendors start selling Heavies for 100k, that's when I'll drop the profession. I don't think I'd make 10K on that... and that's not worth it. I'll sell some silly piece a tape I looted off some space hobo instead.
Some people have a great advantage... the advantage of payed for vendors, free housing, free resources. I'm not one of those fortunate few but I think those types are in the minority.
I'm wondering, for those of you in the same situation as me, what do you use as a pricing guide? Do you use your competition to guide your pricing? Do you have a formula you use? Do you just try to clear a certain CPU profit margin? I guess I fall in the category of pricing according to what it costs me to produce + the amount of time and effort involved. If my competition sells for far less, I won't lower my price unless I think I am truly asking too much (considering my costs mind you).
So what is your formula?
Tolk_Okeefe
Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:29 am
#10
Here is my prices, and its in the middle of the pricerange on Chimaera:
Houses:
Small: 12000
Medium: 55000
Large: 120000
PA Hall: 350000Other civics are done by request.
Furniture is ranging from 500-5000. Art: 6000 pr painting.
Harvs (I only stock BER13):
BER13 Moisture: 100k
Fusion Gen: 140k
All others: 125k.
Thats it really.
Corso
Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:47 am
#11
I use a percetage system.
For example; it costs me 5,000 credits to make a small house. I will mark it up by 25%, which is 6,250 credits. (this does not reflect my actual costs)
Zhundult
Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:35 am
#12
In the past I've used a CPU formula for everything, then adjusted it some based on the difficulty of making the item. For normal, non-named items, I charge 3 CPU, named items went to 5 cpu, and creature resources went up to 7 cpu. I only rarely buy any materials, and if I do buy them, I figure a 1-2 CPU profit on top of what I payed for it.
I just sold off almost all my inventory at drastically reduced prices though, since I had to drop merchant and would have no more vendors, but I've since gotten another account, and mastered Architect with it, and am in the process of mastering merchant with it, so I'll be able to have a store again. I'll probably come up with a pricing model similar to Isander, since he's not too far from my shop, and seems like one of the better furniture vendors on the server. I rarely stock deeds, they are just way too resource intensive, and I prefer harvesting good quality stuff rather than ore all the time. 
LonelyGhost
Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:19 pm
#13
I used to price mys tuff along the lines of some of the above posts, but got tired of making stuff all the time and feeling my time wasn't valued.
I sell 10% of what I used to, but its still plenty to meet and exceed my overhead. Thats all I want from my craftign biz...to meet my overhead. If you are not an AS,WS, Chef, or buff-pack Doc, you would have a hard time being profitable. Especially if you dont take advantage of lot-swap harv farms.
My HMMI is 210k, a large house is 275k, medium house is 150k, factories 120k...
I use my spreadsheet (link in sig) to figure it out, and I set the cost for resources at an average of 8cpu. Depends on the kind. "metal" is cheaper than Hide, for example. Then I markup certain components and deeds.
I dont care if I only sell one item a day. Its still enough to pay for the dozen structures I maintain for me and the Guild, and the food or misc stuff I buy.
Architect were cursed form the very beginning, and never got a fair shot at fair pricing like WS or AS did. We got crammed into the lowest possible price bracket by holo-grinders. I refuse to allow that. I'll make my candy money selling loot or something, and let the 1 item I sell a day pay the bills. Its not worth the time and effort to sell structures at 2 or 3cpu to try and finance my gameplay.
I sell 10% of what I used to, but its still plenty to meet and exceed my overhead. Thats all I want from my craftign biz...to meet my overhead. If you are not an AS,WS, Chef, or buff-pack Doc, you would have a hard time being profitable. Especially if you dont take advantage of lot-swap harv farms.
My HMMI is 210k, a large house is 275k, medium house is 150k, factories 120k...
I use my spreadsheet (link in sig) to figure it out, and I set the cost for resources at an average of 8cpu. Depends on the kind. "metal" is cheaper than Hide, for example. Then I markup certain components and deeds.
I dont care if I only sell one item a day. Its still enough to pay for the dozen structures I maintain for me and the Guild, and the food or misc stuff I buy.
Architect were cursed form the very beginning, and never got a fair shot at fair pricing like WS or AS did. We got crammed into the lowest possible price bracket by holo-grinders. I refuse to allow that. I'll make my candy money selling loot or something, and let the 1 item I sell a day pay the bills. Its not worth the time and effort to sell structures at 2 or 3cpu to try and finance my gameplay.
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