Architect Archive

Thread: Higher extraction rate harvesters.... You gotta be crazy!

Youch1
Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:30 am
#1
Glad to see a first post that I absolutely agree with. I commented at length when the 13BER cap came in and was totally opposed to it. The 10 rate for a heavy was just about right and needed no change. The 14 BER fusion was even dafter - especially when you factored in the new P/E rating which effectively meant that every machine on a 900+ rated site was to all intents and purposes a 28-odd BER.


Oh well, what's done is done and I'm still making7 figures every night on sales and have the schematics and resources to make hundreds more heavies of every description.


Candles anyone?


Skarra, Master Architect



~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~

Skarra, Master Architect of West Bestine, Tatooine, Radiant - fine Furniture, Homes, Harvesters and Resources at -2200, -3444 just 1 minute west of town.

~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Orlaith
Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:16 am
#2
What's worse is these muppets who sell ALL resources at 2.5cpu. Yes, they sell the absolutely useless to the premium grade resources and all for the low, low price of 2.5 cpu. It's an undercut in the market. It's ruining the market.


As for myself I'm in a sticky situation. I have less than 100K of carbonite ore. That's the only ore I have. I currently have two fusion ions gathering a decent radioactive deposit, four heavies working on that ore, one factory cranking out Artisan components by the hundreds so that I can drop it, and a chem extractor working on polymer...which I've recently run out of. My heavies are 13BER and it's still not enough. It's been weeks that I've been virtually out of ore. But other deposits of high quality steel, copper, radioactive, and gas have been popping up while ore has remained less than medium grade (which I don't bother with). So naturally I've been gathering the quality resources.


As a result, I haven't been able to crank out any product. Don't forget how much ore is needed to make a healthy supply of structure modules in order to make a healthy supply of walls. That's just the beginning. I've had to refuse and redirect a lot of business. And you're trying to tell me that BER13 extractors are a bad idea?


While it is terrible that so many bottomfeeders have taken advantage of the whole holo grinding trend (which was a terrible idea, SOE), we can't have our cakes and eat them, too. I need a BER13, at the very least, just to gather enough to last me for a few days. I can't afford to sell the majority of types of resources that I have. Sure, I could place 8 heavies (2 lots for the house) for a week and get enough ore to last me for a couple of weeks. But while I'm doing that, I'll run out of, say, steel. So I'll work on getting more steel after the ore, eh? But wait, while I'm doing that, I'll be using the ore with any remaining steel I have left so that by the time I get more steel I'll have used up a certain amount of my ore. Oh, but the fiberplast. Well, hey, I just have to throw down some chem extractors for a week and I'll be tip-top except for the steel and ore I'll be using up. And where am I going to get the power? It never ends.


Some of you might say, "Just stop production for a few weeks and gather all your resources..." But that's the thing. It'll happen all over again. One week's worth of ore gathering doesn't equal four week's worth of supply. I could stop production for a month, gather as much in the way of resources as I can, begin using all those resources at the same time, and everything's tickety-boo, eh? Wrong.


So BER13 is bad in that the bottomfeeders all have access to them. And they're using them to kill the resource market. But on the other hand resource dependent people like me appreciateany extra ER points we can get. Not for the novelty, but out of necessity. We can't have it both ways.



Orlaith O'Fianna

Master Medic - Master Doctor - Undecided

LSO

GogoDodo
Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:20 am
#3




Orlaith wrote:

What's worse is these muppets who sell ALL resources at 2.5cpu. Yes, they sell the absolutely useless to the premium grade resources and all for the low, low price of 2.5 cpu. It's an undercut in the market. It's ruining the market.





crap, i'm a muppet.


Well selling all my stuff at 2.5 cpu seemed like a good idea at the time, guess i should revisit it though.


G



Gogo T. Dodo
Master Architect, Master Artisan, Master Merchant
EmGo Corporation - Chairman and Chief Resource Monkey
Kor Vella, Corellia; Trinity City, Naboo
Starsider
Dandrik
Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:46 am
#4
I think the biggest problem is the lot swaps. Allowing people to have 50-Unlimited amount of lots is killing the market. They place them once, and then sell the excess they do not use.




~~*~~ Retired ~~*~~
Kerico
Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:52 am
#5
It is almost too late but.. can we just leave it broken for the life of the game??


Maybe harvester certs could help slow the lot swapping?


Maybe...

Anyone can place a personal

Any level 3 bubble in a crafting line could get mediums? (engineer, domestic, survey, med crafting)

Any Novice Advanced with crafting can use heavies? (arch, armor, chef, BE, weapon, smuggler, DE, doc, combat med)


Perhaps for the publish that add certs... all harvesters stop working and need to be replaced but you get free redeed?


I'm not saying that I'm not guilty of these things. I've asked friends to place harvesters for me, grabbed a high qual resource on a far away planet when the only reason I knew about it was swgcraft, stockpiledchemical to the point where I'llnever need to harvest it again....


But I'm willing to take a hit for the health of the game. This is like everyone discovered gold in their backyard and gold is used to make every single product on the planet from houses to hotpants.
mkummer
Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:32 am
#6

Ithink the ressource harvesting thing is crazy. Same ppl that want a med house for 50k try to sell you ore for 3-4cpu. I always tell everyone that I will not buy ore for more then 1cpu and they think it is a joke.


This bussines will come and go with the hologrinding.






Sybee
GogoDodo
Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:39 am
#7




Kerico wrote:

It is almost too late but.. can we just leave it broken for the life of the game??


Maybe harvester certs could help slow the lot swapping?


Maybe...

Anyone can place a personal

Any level 3 bubble in a crafting line could get mediums? (engineer, domestic, survey, med crafting)

Any Novice Advanced with crafting can use heavies? (arch, armor, chef, BE, weapon, smuggler, DE, doc, combat med)


Perhaps for the publish that add certs... all harvesters stop working and need to be replaced but you get free redeed?





Its not a bad idea and it would definitly cause resource prices to go back up, but it would probably kill the harvestor business. In reality there is a limit to the number of players that can exist on any server, and each player is limited to 10 lots, so that creates a finite amount of structures that can ever be bought. Even cities which don't use lots have limits on structures/gardens placed. This means that the entire arch market has a finite cap on it.


Along the lines of Kerico's idea, how bout the max BER of a harvestor is based on the players skills. Just like you need to be Merchant EFF 4 to get the 20% maintence bonus. New characters get a max BER of 4, novice second tier crafters get max ber of 7, masters of second tier crafting profs get a max ber of 10. And to get the max ber of 14 on a heavy you'd have to master the Miner tree (which will come back someday). So a character could come to my shop and buy some heavy minerals, and place them. Since hes just starting they'll max at BER 4, but as he moves up a crafting tree he gains the ability to change the BER rating on the harvestor. But if they never plan on mastering a crafting proff they may just place mediums and leave them at 7. Now we as archs would set, thru assembly and experimentation, the max possibleBER on each unit but it woulod be up to the crafters abilities as how high they could us it.



G





Gogo T. Dodo
Master Architect, Master Artisan, Master Merchant
EmGo Corporation - Chairman and Chief Resource Monkey
Kor Vella, Corellia; Trinity City, Naboo
Starsider
Darkagent101
Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:00 am
#8

Can we say economy crash?






Charina and Carshea
Sunnrunner and Test Center
Pawlin
Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:55 am
#9

Deflation of the resource market is not necessarily a bad thing IMHO. I don't mind paying less. I think that what we're seeing right now with lower prices is supply reacting to demand. We've also got some 'Walmart' type miners out there impacting the market as a whole with more supply and lower prices.


Miners won't stop mining as long as they make money. Mining is high profits even at 1cpu. If you've got some guy static mining with 90 lots then he'll stay in the business as long as money is flowing in. Lower prices will drive out the casual miners who are only in it for a quick buck, but not the bigger operations.


But irregardless of resource costs, if resource demand slows down then harvester demand will drop. We have seen that after the hologrind bubble burst.






Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ
Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain

** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
Tendral
Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:21 am
#10
Another thing to consider, the Jedi system is changing to a quest based system and your current character will become FS. Without all the details yet, it sounds like the Holo grind will stop completely and that market will be gone forever.



Tenal - President of Arion
Mayor of Arion City, Corellia, Kettemoor Server
Master Architect, owner of Arion Homes and Harvesters at -3172, -1273, Corellia


Kerico
Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:17 pm
#11

I think everyone would agree that harvesters are the big sellers for architect, sure we've gotten alot more houses since player cities.Lights are nice but not big ticket items.


Since the dreaded experimentation patch (which accidently put in experimentation and raised heavies from 7 to rate 10) then the followup correction patch (which raised it to a rediculous ber 13), the resouce economy has been floating on a bubble... The bubble of hologrinding... and guess what's leaving the game.


Resource prices are already dropping (someone on Ahazi wanted to find a dependable buyer for his weekly resourcepull of 3.5 million units a week!)

There are far too many people harvesting at far too fast a rate! Lot swapping, increased resource awareness (swgcraft), massive resource hoarding and exagerated extraction rates... add it up.


1 person can easily extract 750k units a week! (8 heavies on 75% deposit for 7 days) Who but an architect can even craft away that many resources!? That's 75 vehicles or 3500+ guns or 250 suits of composite... who can sell that much?!


When the resource market crashes and these dabble miners can't find anyone to buy their supply, they're going to get out and dump these thousands of medium and heavy harvesters back on the market... and guess where new harvester sales are gonna go?? Right down the bowl!


Heavy prices have already dropped back to pre-experimentation prices. Archs are doing factory runs of heavies which is an almost rediculous concept.


Architecture's harvesters are an odd market... we sell to crafters (or thier miners)instead of combaters. All other crafters require far less resouces to make things that we do. They're building up massive stockpiles of resources (filling thier homes, input hoppers and banks with 100k stacks). Pretty soon they're gonna realize, they have enough to last them a lifetime, They'll scaleback harvesting only grabbing more when the truely wonderous resouce appears. They'll essentially be out of the market.


When the resource buyers are gone, the harvester buyers are gone...


I shudder to think about it but we need to.... nerf harvesters? add resource decay?? We certainly don't need higher BER...

Message Edited by Kerico on 03-19-2004 12:17 AM

Bandola
Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:38 pm
#12
Problem is it is too late, nerf harvesters now and nobody will buy them anymore, nobody who has a BER10 medium is going to upgrade to a BER11 Heavy for example.
Interesting thought with resource decay, but I just cannot get my head around the resource decaying in my house while the structure/deed that I make with that very same resource will last forever.




__________________________________________________________
Bandola Da'Gear
-RETIRED-
((The Blue Ghost))

Broda
Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:20 pm
#13
What are the "normal" prices for resources nowadays? Last year when I started playing the resources averaged 3cpr. I quit around August or so but have recently started playing again. I notice that on the bazaar most steel goes for 6cpr. To me that's way too much money, it doesn't cost near that to extract/market/sell. I haven't done the math recently but it usually doesn't cost more than 1cpr to extract/market/sell...



------------------------------------------------------------
Corb'Dal
Chilastra - Master Architect, Master Artisan, Chef (1444), Merchant (4223)

Baci Qel-Droma
Chilastra - Brawler (4000), Marksman (4444)
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