CUEmu - Thread Posts

TashunkaSapa

Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:52 pm

We have nobody to blame for this but ourselves. This is simply the end result of us not selling our wares at a high enough markup.

It's obvious that architects need heavies for their own use - so why, then, are we selling houses at 3cpu and such when others are selling the resources they mine at the same rate?

I'm sure those (like myself) who are dissatisfied with the state of things aren't personally to blame - it's those who came before us and set the mentality that a small house should sell for 7k and the like. So we're in the unenviable position of trying to stay competitive and still making anything resembling a profit.

Couple with the fact that our goods are not subject to decay and market stagnation is inevitable. What we really need to get things working properly again are not lamps and candles, but a need for customers to either buy high quality structures or occasionally replace inferior ones. The obvious answer would appear to be the now-useless line of experimentation on everything from furniture to factories that indicates how durable it is.

Let's face it: A well-made item will last a long time with proper maintenance. But a shoddy one will not, no matter how well you care for it. So if all of a sudden the condition of those cut-rate structures started to gradually diminish, customers would need to go out and buy new ones - and this time they'd be more careful about what they buy.

I'm sure there would be cries of "but I didn't know that my 6k small house was made with crappy materials!" but anyone who's ever bought or sold resources (or even seen others do so) knows that such buildings weren't made with top-quality ore and metal. And we all know the phrase "you get what you pay for".

This would lead to repeat business and allow architects to justify higher pricing for quality products - and it will "keep honest Architects honest". The ones who try to undercut the others will be flushed out and will not be able to stay in business as no one will patronize them. Imagine if a top-quality medium house only cost 25cr per hour to maintain, but a poor quality one cost 50 or more! Sure you might save a few K initially but you'd pay that back within the first week... and keep paying thereafter!

No one buys substandard weapons or armor, and if Devs made resource quality and experimentation matter for more than harvesters and lights, no one would buy junk structures either...

Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri)

Imperial Pilot Ace/Master Smuggler/Master Bounty Hunter

Master Explorer. Force-Sensitive. HERO OF TATOOINE.

Orlaith

Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:07 pm

#15

I'm glad to see that the Architects have heads on their shoulders, unlike members of certain other professions whose forums I've perused.

I like a lot of the ideas presented here.

It's clear that something must be done about the resources issue. What we're seeing now is people (and not to point fingers, but I have an itching suspicion that it's mainly the younger ones) come in and want to be Commandos and Bounty Hunters and TKAs but find that those professions aren't exactly the biggest money makers, not without some effort put forth, anyway. Then they hear about the fact that they have lots, and all they have to do is place extractors, gather resources, and sell them fora ridiculously lowcpu. The reasoning behind that is they don't need the resources because they're not crafters, and while they're out PvPing they can make some cash off of their extractors.

The lot swapping issue presents its own problems and solutions. Let me first say that I absolutely intend to find 10 extra lots. 10 is not enough. My house and factories on the static lots, my extractors on my own lots. I'm not happy about having to do this, but since there's absolutely no way that I'm going to go buy another copy of SWG just to have a second account on the same server this is the way it has to be. I looked into it and apparently paying for another subscription just isn't enough for cash-strapped SOE (yes, I'm being sarcastic with the "cash-strapped"). I'd gladly pay another subscription but you'll NEVER see me pay for copy of a game I already own.

The solution which lot swapping provides is, obviously, more lots for an individual player. The problem it creates is a contribution to the already finite market for the crafting professions. The more new players that are created simply to fulfill lot swapping agreements the closer a server comes to reaching its cap...but with inactive players. So more lots for me but less potential customers for all of us.

Orlaith O'Fianna
Master Medic - Master Doctor - Undecided
LSO

Shlo_mo_shun

Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:10 am

#16

The fact of the matter is that without decay to harvesters, there is no hope for a harvester market to continue indefinitely.

The only reason it has been so robust is because everyone and their mother has become miners to subsidize their own holo-grind. Now, they are gathering huge amounts of materials, just to sell off for more cash, and nobody is buying. For this reason, the cost of resources will start to drop off, and over time, these people will actually stop mining, cause they are paying more for the harvesters than they are getting for the resources.

Eventually, as less of them get into the harvester market, you will see a huge drop in purchases, and it will basically halt. Making it a class cert thing will only make the markets for harvesters smaller, but in the end, you will still have no re-buyers of harvesters, so the market is fininite. I suggest having no decay on personals, with a small decay on mediums and larges. They could last for about 2 months or so, then require replacement. Sure, crafters would need to raise the price of goods, to cover this cost, but that would be a good thing. And it would make it so that raw resources have a higher selliing point.

Right now, there is no sense in complaining about resources selling for 2.5cpu, cause that is 5x what you pay to harvest them. Pretty nice deal. But in the future, with decay, that will increase slightly, and set a new bottom for resources at 3 or 4 cpu, and less people would get into the resource selling market because of this decay.

anyway, just my thoughts for a. reducing the number of random resource harvesters, b. keeping goods a set/affordable price, and c. making the market for harvesters something that doesn't ever completely disappear.

I also think houses should have some decay or such. it would last about 6 months, say.And to combat it, you would INSERT a new 'similar' deed into the old house under a menu option, that would refresh this counter. That way, you wouldn't have to move all your stuff or anything, but you would have to re-buy your house. at 8k for a small house on most servers, this is a small price to pay every 6 months. Consider this major renovation (like repairing the roof or re-tiling the bathroom )

It would certainly improve things for the Architects, who definitely need some repeat customer love.

shlomoshun Boutros -
shlomoshun Master Armorworks - Imperial Prototype Shields
Far Haven, Tatooine, Ahazi (across from the cantina)

Kerico

Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:03 am

#17

Ebonfire wrote:

but I'll give you an example of someone holding a monoply on Kauri right now.

We have a weaponsmith that has played his profession from the beginning, and now claims to have over 1 million units of each of the best resources for his profession.. that has ever spawned on the server. A lot of people agree that he is by far the best weaponsmith on the server, and all veteran players know where his shop is located. Good luck newbie weaponsmiths.

I am so happy that with architect, thatyou can create a quality product without having to spend weeks if not months tracking down the rare resources.

Zutan

Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:39 am

#18

Resources need to decay for sure, not quickly but maybe over the coarse of a couple months..

Harvesters of all types need to decay. In two forms imo, first, if a harvester does decay some due to lack of maintenance it should lose maybe 5% of its top end "condition" each time you repair it. Second, there should be some sort of reasonable decay rate for active harvesters, perhaps a single heavy harvester lasting up to 4 months if it never requires repair.. Mediums around 3.5 months and personals around 2-3 months.

This would help the harvester market (imo the main market for architect) moving.

Zutan

Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:22 pm

#19

Does it cost you more to extract the so called "premium" resources? Of course not.. so the price you sell it for should be no different.

On avg a medium harvester costs at most 2 cpu when you factor power andmaintenance. You can make a pretty fat profit charging 3 or 4 cpu.

Its the people selling resources for 10 to 40+ cpu that drive up the cost of things like weapons and armor and makes it very hard for somewhat new artisans to get materials. Just because some people *can* pay that much doesnt mean anyone should. All it does is make it near impossible for casual types, non-crafters and people that dont want to spend their whole day running missions to buy anything.

DarkenJal

Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:30 pm

#20

Zutan wrote:
Does it cost you more to extract the so called "premium" resources? Of course not.. so the price you sell it for should be no different.
On avg a medium harvester costs at most 2 cpu when you factor power andmaintenance. You can make a pretty fat profit charging 3 or 4 cpu.
Its the people selling resources for 10 to 40+ cpu that drive up the cost of things like weapons and armor and makes it very hard for somewhat new artisans to get materials. Just because some people *can* pay that much doesnt mean anyone should. All it does is make it near impossible for casual types, non-crafters and people that dont want to spend their whole day running missions to buy anything.

EXACTLY!! That is the reason I sell for no more than 4, no less than 3.

BoberFett

Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:52 pm

#21

Speaking as a masterarchitect and weaponsmith, I can see many sides of the argument. To a weaponsmith, resource decay would be a disastrous. It would mean that you're limited to building weapons with the materials that spanned in whatever time frame the stack decayed in. If it took two months for a stack of resources to decay, if two rare resources required to build a particular weapon (the T21 for instance, requires the very rarely spawning Gallinorian Gemstone) spawned more than two months apart you'd NEVER be able to build one.

Also, we need to make up our minds here. I see many different issues being discussed, the solutions to many of whichare direct opposition to one another.

The main topic of this thread was higher rate harvesters. A suggestion about certifying harvesters was made. This would cut architects busienss and raise resource prices. Another issue is repeat business for architects. One solution presented is harvester decay. This would help architects, but would also raise resource rices. So now we have two suggestions that would raise resource prices, yet people are complaining about the current high price of rsources. And yet another issue we hear about is the out of control economy and prices for everyday goods. This will only increase if more decay is introduced, or resource and harvester costs go up.

BoberFett

Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:53 pm

#22

Not to mention, we can't even decide if resources are too expensive or too cheap.

kastlyn

Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:37 pm

#23

I don't think resources should decay. If something comes up in your real life and you have to take a month or two off from the game, you shouldn't be punished by having to start COMPLETELY over with getting resources. Especially with how the resource system is now, it just would not work at all. Decay on harvesters? Yes, but longer than two months. Decay on houses: No way. Unless there was a sort of backup optional thing you could add to your house that extended the life of your home for a couple months on the instance that it started to decay. It would need to be something you can do beforehand, not an after the fact like getting an e-mail when your house is about to blow up, instead of getting it when it very first starts to decay. People don't want to lose all their stuff. I don't want to lose my store, and I'm sure you don't, either. Decay on furniture: definitely. It's easy and fast to make, and there's a better profit margin on furniture than probably anything else we make.

-=Lenore=-

Goon Squad Greater Organization of Adept Trade Skill Employees

Malisant

Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:28 pm

#24

I like the idea of the certification to use harvesters, but with one slight modification: Make them kinda like weapons work, you can use them but at a greatly reduced rate. For example, a hgih cap. flora farm, with a BER of 12 on a 75% spot would work at ber 9 for someone with the certification. For someone without a certification, it would still work, but at say 50% of the normal operating capacity so it would work out to a BER of 4.5. (Being (12*0.75)*0.5). This way the people who need to harvest the resources would be able to efficiently, and those that were doing it just for the increased cash flow, or to help a friend out could still do it, but not as effective.

Malisant (wookiee, Naritus)
Master Commando (Retired)
Creature Handler 4-4-0-0 (Retired)
Master Architect
Tailor 0-3-0-0
Artisan 4-4-4-0
Novice Merchant

Bradon Pendragon (twilek, Naritus)
Medic 2-2-3-4
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Give a man fire he'll be warm for a day, Set a man on fire he'll be warm for the rest of his life

Griswel

Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:47 pm

#25

The answer is new things to make, not damage to old things.

They need to introduce better-quality-but-not-eternal harvesters into the game IMHO.

Then introduce other things that use ore/metal (i.e. not uber resources) that use up alot of resources to give folks a reason to continue to mine.

I agree though, and my experience is that Harvs sales have slowed down noticeably already (with a short boost just before Pub7).The amount of time before we'rein troubleshould be measuredin weeks, not months.

Then I'm just gona have to slow down my resource buying and take some time off to count my money

Kerico

Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:59 pm

#26

I doubt resource decay will ever happen (even though it might be the only solutionto hordes).Players would freak, start petitions, etc. It would be worse than the crafting change. But any proposed resource decay should take a few months before it even starts... then slowly reduce... from above, it can't cripple those specific resources needed for weaponsmith etc.

I always like the replaceable parts for harvesters idea (every so often you have to replace the ore mining mechanism or the fluidic drilling pump).

That decreased extraction rate for non-cert'd harvesters is kinda cool.

As far as future markets (crafted objects that might take large amounts of resources and yet be disposable/decay/destroyable)...

architect made walls and faction bases that are consumed via battle?

faction tanks/vehicles?

.... space craft?... missiles, escape pods, ammo??

Oh! and lets not forget. The devs need harvesters to keep running. Harvesters are the primary money sink. That's where we're supposed to be putting all this money we're making! haha

Nerf harvester extraction rates! Retro-nerf existing harvesters!

oh.. someone selling 4 million unit of a single type of polysteel copper on Ahazi, closing price... 1cr/unit.

Message Edited by Kerico on 03-21-2004 10:18 PM

Architect Archive

Thread: Higher extraction rate harvesters.... You gotta be crazy!