Architect Archive
Thread: Amazing/Crictical Assemblies and BER
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erli
Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:40 pm
#1
Recently on my server a few armorsmiths have made some news regarding their techniques for creating 44% Stun armor. I won't go in to recounting their methods here (though you can go check the heated debate out on the armorsmith forum). Suffice it to say, they achieved special crafting day results outside of crafting day. They did it by grinding out an assembly that produced a better than normal result.
I've been thinking of trying this out to improve BER to 14 on harvesters but wanted to get some more support info regarding BER14 and its attainability. With great resources and one of these "special" assemblies would BER 14 be possible? Would you need the assembly on the OMU (HHM or TFDP)? Would you need the assembly on the final harvester combine? Would you need it on both? On the one day crafting bonanza how were higher than BER13 harvs made?
Pawlin
Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:47 pm
#2
erli wrote:
With great resources and one of these "special" assemblies would BER 14 be possible? Would you need the assembly on the OMU (HHM or TFDP)? Would you need the assembly on the final harvester combine? Would you need it on both? On the one day crafting bonanza how were higher than BER13 harvs made?
Well I don't know what the "special assemblies" are that you are talking about.
To get a BER 14 heavy harvester on "temporary tuesday" you had to hit 100% on the mining component and then 100% on the final combine as well. Right now I don't know of anyway to hit a perfect 100% no matter the quality of the materials.
Bandola
Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:04 pm
#3
No, I believe it is simply not possible unless you can obtain resources with 1000 SR, 1000 HR and 1000 UT. I have tried making omus with Steel at 988/998/1000, they hit 99% and no higher, IMO that makes 100% beyond reach until the 'perfect' resources spawn.
Message Edited by Bandola on 10-20-2004 11:09 PM
Bandola
Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:08 pm
#4
oops, forgot to mention, I then tried to make heavy harvs with these, and with the same steel, experimented up to 99% at best, but still only BER13 
Bandola
Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:52 am
#5
erli wrote:
...Shoot it down and say it won't work all you want. ...
It won't work.
bigjohn752
Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:12 am
#6
What have you got to lose? Hopper size. With a good subcomponant you can hit 13 ber with 8 exp points, allowing you to put the rest into increasing the hopper. Putting that 9th and 10th point into increasing the ber and hoping for a mystical outstanding crit experience will only give you a 13 ber harvester with a smaller hopper than it could have had.
Shoot it down and say it won't work all you want. Or take the chance and try it out for yourself. If you have the resources on the high end across the board what have you got to lose?
Bandola
Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:32 am
#7
bigjohn752 wrote:
What have you got to lose? Hopper size. With a good subcomponant you can hit 13 ber with 8 exp points, allowing you to put the rest into increasing the hopper. Putting that 9th and 10th point into increasing the ber and hoping for a mystical outstanding crit experience will only give you a 13 ber harvester with a smaller hopper than it could have had.
Shoot it down and say it won't work all you want. Or take the chance and try it out for yourself. If you have the resources on the high end across the board what have you got to lose?
Plus you get to use up some extremely high quality resources, that's what you have to lose. Do you have plenty of 980+HR /990+SR/1000 UT steel and metal you can afford to blow on trying this out?
BTW It is not only about how many exp points you havethat determines how high you can experiment up to, it is the quality of materials. If I use the BEST materials I can still only put 10 points into the BER, but you need the best to be able to make the highest % from all those 10 points. E.g. if I use avg 970 materials, then my final % on the BER will be lower, (even with exactly the same exp outcomes) than if I use avg 990 materials.
Message Edited by Bandola on 10-21-2004 05:44 AM
erli
Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:33 am
#8
Two smiths hit this critical assembly independant of each other using the same methods. One has done it twice, others have verified it on other servers. The two on my server achieved the "critical assembly" result within 300 assemblies.
Resource waste would realistically only cost you in the grinding of OMUs. Setting aside a bag of best OMU resources with enough to cover say 5000 OMUs would be plenty for research and development. When you are finally successful at getting the heightened assembly you can then run a schematic for 1000 OMUs. This will provide you 500 chances to get a critical assembly on a Harvester. If you don't get the critical assembly you experiment the harvester like any other BER 13 you make and sell it off like normal. If you do get the critical assembly, you get to run off a factory run incorporating whatever left over OMUs you still have. Most of your losses over time could be recouped in sales of harvesters as well as heightened harvester ability for self.
What other goals haven't you already attained in this profession??? You need to spend your time trying to run a more sound business model in an economy where credits and resources are worth less than the time required to get them? Blue Ribbon entry in the design contest?
I'll necro this post in a few months and let you know how it turned out. Unless, of course, somebody beats me to it. 
Bandola
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:41 am
#9
You are of course hypothesising. There are many questions that should be asked, amongst them:
a) why have we not heard of this 'critical assembly' (whatever that is supposed to mean) before now?
b) If it has only been seen by AS (as appears to be the case) is it then a bug that affects a particular schematic/tool/station and will not affect other crafters?
c) what experimentation line is affected, is it only 'special protection' ? where does Architect come into this?
d) What was the max 'stun' % on temporary tuesday ? was it found that 44% is the absolute max using the very best resources?
excuse me a little here, I am not an AS, but I really don't believe that crafting armor has much to say about crafting structures. I already see from one of the comments in the thread you point us to, the following (comment made by somebody who certainly on the face of things appears to have a good knowledge of how AS does work) :
Crism Silastic Ore caps at 1000 OQ 350 SR ( could be 330, just never saw higher on any server)
now that implies to me immediately that 44% is not the absolute cap for stun, since one of the key stats (SR) appears to be hard to find (in much the same way as we architects cannot find metals with high SR/HR/UT and simultaneously high MA). IF it were possible to find all resources needed with (say) 990+OQ and 990+ SR I would contend that better than 44% would be possible. i do not know the math, but I am reasonably certain from what I can see, that if you could get ALL resources with 1000/1000 then the theoretical max stun would be over 45%. We 'know' that our theoretical max for heavy harvs is 14 BER, we also know that we are 'always' going to fall short until we get 1000/1000/1000 materials.
That is enough to convince me not to try further (because as I say, I HAVE already tried using the best resources in the game) I for one will not waste the resources. You talk about 'only' enough resources for say 5,000 omus - have you worked it out? that is 2.6 million units of UBER metal (has to be iron) and/or steel, I do not know of anybody who has that much.
I won't hold my breath waiting for your necro post 
GummiShooter
Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:48 am
#10
I think I had a 'critical success' too a long time ago when I was a starting Architect making vehicles. I manually crafted about 20 swoops one day using the same resources for all of them.I got 93% on all of them, but somehow, one got to 95%. I didn't think too much of it (being a starting crafter), but thinking back, that must be what happened.
But I doubt it would be very efficient for an Architect to get one by trying to assemble a few hundred OMU's. Since you won't get a BER14 anyway, all you can do is increase the hopper size and I don't know many people who are willing to shelve out more for a few K more hopper size.
Tempus_Blackthorn
Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:24 am
#11
Using my best steel (average of 966 - 988 SR) I managed to do a 98% swoop. Dunno where it went... I think one of my guildmates took off with it 
. My average using that steel is 97% swoops. Ok, I know, I'm off topic. It might be possible to hit a BER 14, but it must bea one in a million shot. The perfect roll of the dice. Frankly, I have not the resources to do it. The best steel I found, like I said has an average of 966. I harvested slightly over 200k of it in 4-5 days. I had about 5 harvesters on that spot, and only toward the end I noticed the stats. I needed some cheap steel, and when I finally came around to look at the stats, well my jaw dropped. I only started playing in June, so I don't have the habit of sampling all the resources before deciding which one I harvest. I just survey, find a high % and plop down harvies.
. My average using that steel is 97% swoops. Ok, I know, I'm off topic. It might be possible to hit a BER 14, but it must bea one in a million shot. The perfect roll of the dice. Frankly, I have not the resources to do it. The best steel I found, like I said has an average of 966. I harvested slightly over 200k of it in 4-5 days. I had about 5 harvesters on that spot, and only toward the end I noticed the stats. I needed some cheap steel, and when I finally came around to look at the stats, well my jaw dropped. I only started playing in June, so I don't have the habit of sampling all the resources before deciding which one I harvest. I just survey, find a high % and plop down harvies. I also got 190k of 964 average steel in the same fashion 3 weeks ago.
The resources required for all the tests can only be bought, if available in sufficient quantities.
Pawlin
Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:22 am
#12
erli wrote:
...
Resource waste would realistically only cost you in the grinding of OMUs. Setting aside a bag of best OMU resources with enough to cover say 5000 OMUs would be plenty for research and development. When you are finally successful at getting the heightened assembly you can then run a schematic for 1000 OMUs. This will provide you 500 chances to get a critical assembly on a Harvester. If you don't get the critical assembly you experiment the harvester like any other BER 13 you make and sell it off like normal. If you do get the critical assembly, you get to run off a factory run incorporating whatever left over OMUs you still have. Most of your losses over time could be recouped in sales of harvesters as well as heightened harvester ability for self.
...
Ok, this is assuming that a normal OMU plus a 'critical success' during the final combine would give you BER14. But during 'temporary Tuesday' in order to get a BER14 you had to have a BER7 made with 100% experimentation as well as 100% experimentation during the final combine. So that extra point in the BER7 may be necessary to get the BER14 final result.
In your test above you are not using a BER7 OMU are you?
Bandola
Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:28 am
#13
I guess I'm coming over as a bit of a grouch today, sorry guys, don't mean to be so sour. Or maybe I am just being 'Sir Bandola the Arrogant' again
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