Architect Archive
Thread: Amazing/Crictical Assemblies and BER
Pawlin
Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:43 am
#14
Bandola, I think its right to be cynical about it. It apparently has been reproduced by more than one armorsmith. But who knows if it is a bug or not. People might be on a wild goose chase for what is really an exploit. And it might not work for harvesters. What if theres something required that we aren't aware of? There are a whole bunch of if's involved here.
But, if someone wants to look into it then no harm done.
erli
Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:28 pm
#15
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=armorsmith&message.id=65963&page=1
After reading the above thread and doing a little further research into "critical success", it does indeed appear that you can achieve a greater percentage on assembly than what your resources would otherwise allow. It may be rare, but it does happen. Basically you would only have to grind OMUs until you get an assembly that gives a better starting percentage than normal. If the crafting day info is correct, then you would ALSO need to get a similar "critical assembly" using the special OMUs in a Harvester Final Combine. Cost in resources is the only really prohibitive aspect to trying this. But I would think an architect could as easily grind OMUs for FS xp as grind statue heads, with the possible additional benefit of hitting a special mark in their profession and achieving a competitive edge in business.
Shoot it down and say it won't work all you want. Or take the chance and try it out for yourself. If you have the resources on the high end across the board what have you got to lose? You can always make BER 13s. For any brave enough to try this, may the force be with you.
erli
Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:16 pm
#16
Bandola, I understand and applaud your skepticism at potentially throwing away a large portion of your better resources on what at this point is nothing more than hypothetical conjecture. I am founding the idea that it could work on harvesters from two things. First, BER 14 is the maximum attainable as evidenced by temporary tuesday crafting results. Secondly, these special assemblies allow one to exceed resource quality (albeit slightly) and achieve temporary tuesday results outside temporary tuesday. As for your questions;
a) It has been heard of before the above mentioned armorssmith thread. TH even answered a question regarding them affirming that they aren't merely a bug and happen as frequently as intended.
b) Weaponsmiths have reported getting VKs and component pieces that demonstrate this success. Artisans see it frequently when grinding through powerups, some have even reported it on vehicles. There is a recent post in the jedi or force sensitive forum (in relation to the saber crafting tool quest reward) that further documents its existence. It is part of the nature of all crafting, not just armorsmiths, as Rocky pointed out in any of his 44% stun armor hype posts.
c) It affects assembly first and foremost, which in turn affects experimentation by allowing experimentation to otherwise exceed what the resources should allow. Test it on anything you feel like that costs less resources, I used powerups. Using identical resources keep track of your starting experimental percentages just after assembly. When you hit one that exceeds what your resources allow the other 99% of the time then you know you have hit a "critical assembly".
d) 44% is the maximum Stun % EVER achieved. 40% has by and large been the norm since temporary tuesday with occasional smiths being able to hit as high as 43% with uber resources.
Pawlin, thank you for at least entertaining the idea and helping with constructive feedback about how to proceed. Yes the first goal would be to hit a BER 7 OMU. I have 11 points of experimentation and +18 to assembly from clothes. Research city gives bonus to experimentation, although good if you hit the special assembly and need to then experiment to 100%, doesn't a manufacturing center provide a bonus to assembly and would therefore be the more logical place to try this? Pyollian cake and the drink that clears food are required for this test, and some FS assembly bonus probably wouldn't hurt (but has never been required previously). You would only drink bespin port were you able to get the critical assembly, in which case it becomes very important that you not suffer setbacks in experimentation.
I am not conteding that a critical assembly on both the OMU and the harvester absolutely will produce a BER 14. But as a Master Architect I have two things that my experimentation really matters on Harvesters and Crafting Stations, and the stations use my Master Artisan Experimentation at that. Resources that allow me to hit BER 13 are always plentiful, rarely requiring more than 8 points on the extraction rate line. Resources that might allow me to hit BER 14, although not so plentiful, are not going to provide me with better BER 13's to sell should I not try to hit BER 14. In fact there is little else I could use them in as an architect that produces any noticeable difference. OMU test requires 520 Steel and 75 Inert per, with HR-SR-UT within5 points of caps each. 1 million units of steel should be enough to test, of that 520,000 units are set aside for the schematic. If the research is fruitless you still have plenty of your uber steel for whatever other mysterious thing you were hoarding it for.
This experiment doesn't really become costly or logistically tricky until you are successful at crafting a BER 7 OMU. Achieving that same success on a harvester is alot more discouraging. The only upsides to this part are no resource loss for critically failed assemblies and the fact you know at assembly whether you succeeded or not and can still experiment normal 8 in extraction 2-4 in hopper if you do not get the heightened percentage at assembly. So you end up overstocked on BER 13 harvesters for awhile, oh well.
Pawlin
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:44 pm
#17
erli wrote:
...a) It has been heard of before the above mentioned armorssmith thread. TH even answered a question regarding them affirming that they aren't merely a bug and happen as frequently as intended....
From this thread this is what TH said:
He quoted Jei_Lightfoot who said: "You can get a critical success?"
Thunderheart: "Yes - - with the same frequency."
So he' is saying "yes" you can get a "critical success", but then he says "with the same frequency". Same frequency as what?!? A critical failure one would assume. But we all know that is not the case. So was TH actually thinking of Amazing successes which happen at the same rate as Critical Failures? Someone asked him to clarify that and he did not respond (of course). I have serious doubt in that answer from TH.
erli wrote:
...c) It affects assembly first and foremost, which in turn affects experimentation by allowing experimentation to otherwise exceed what the resources should allow. Test it on anything you feel like that costs less resources, I used powerups. Using identical resources keep track of your starting experimental percentages just after assembly. When you hit one that exceeds what your resources allow the other 99% of the time then you know you have hit a "critical assembly"....
So you tested it yourself with powerups and verified it yourself? Did you see a "critical success" during assembly yourself? Or did it say "Amazing Success" but give a higher percent than other Amazing Success did?
Yes you are right about manufacturing center, they are described as: "Manufacturing Centers give all crafting attempts within the city a bonus to their success rolls." So if it happens during assembly you'd want that instead of a research center.
Pyollian cake isn't too hard to find but the T'illa T'ill which reduces stomach filling is not something I've ever seen anyone stock. It requires 3 specific types of gas to make. 
Message Edited by Pawlin on 10-21-2004 05:45 PM
Pawlin
Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:39 am
#18
Ya from what I gather the people who have gotten this are getting a "critical success" during assembly rather than an Amazing success. I've never spoted a Critical success myself but Thunderheart did say they exist.
ZenDragonMLS
Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:26 am
#19
I made BER14's on Temporary Tuesday. I *had* to hit 100% on the OMU. I *had* to hit 100% on the final assembly.
I have a stock of 100% OMUs. I have tried to get BER14s with them. No dice.
If *you* believe that this is possible, I'd encourage you to go for it. Report back here when you hit BER14.
Personally, *I* don't think it is possible. Given that we get new architects who come through here, and we also get customers coming through here, I would not feel good about giving people false hope that they can make BER14s - I think that that will set expectations and waste a lot of time.
I have a stock of 100% OMUs. I have tried to get BER14s with them. No dice.
If *you* believe that this is possible, I'd encourage you to go for it. Report back here when you hit BER14.
Personally, *I* don't think it is possible. Given that we get new architects who come through here, and we also get customers coming through here, I would not feel good about giving people false hope that they can make BER14s - I think that that will set expectations and waste a lot of time.
Astao
Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:06 pm
#20
Ok, this DOES NOT WORK with "Amazing Assemblies"... I have 12 exp pts and my assembly is over 120. I tested out this theory, got an "Amazing Assembly" and this did not affect the % to which I could experiment to (98% with both a great success and an amazing success on assembly). Therefore wouldn't affect the final BER which will remain at 13... So in conclusion I would assume that unless you literally get "perfect" materials a BER 14 cannot be done.
Astaobud/Flurry Server
Cigny123
Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:37 pm
#21
why waste the resources to get BER14 anyway? Its not like its going to affect havesting all that much, and Its not like its going to sell like Riz-armor. So, whoopdy doo, somebody got BER14, and they sold it for twice what a BER13 would sell for... Or were you planing on poeple paying millions for this?
Pawlin
Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:43 pm
#22
WEll if I could make BER14's and they would sell for twice what BER13's sell for then that would double my income and more than double my profits. That would be worth doing.
Miners would certainly value it. They'd be getting about 1k more resources per day with no added maintenance costs. If they are mining valuable resources then that would pay for itself pretty quick.
Cigny123
Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:51 pm
#23
So you are saying that you would charge 500k for BER14 and 250k for BER13? Um, I don't know about anyone else, but I would never pay that much more, for only 1k more resources a day. Poeple have been doing just fine with BER13, there is no reason (execpt to prove that it can be done) do get this.
ZenDragonMLS
Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:51 pm
#24
I typically sell my heavy mineral harvesters (BER13) for 160K. The other architect on my server that hit BER14's sold some at 400-500K each.
So I'm not putting down BER14s because they don't have value. I'm saying that I don't believe that you can hit it today.
So I'm not putting down BER14s because they don't have value. I'm saying that I don't believe that you can hit it today.
Pawlin
Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:10 pm
#25
ZenDragonMLS wrote:
...I'm saying that I don't believe that you can hit it today.
Right now you can not.
If the critical success exists and if it isn't a bug and if it works the same for harvesters that it appears to have worked for armor and weapons then it could be theoretically possible to make a BER14. Thats a big string of IF's. I don't think its likely.
