Architect Archive
Thread: And I quote: Holy s#$t, you are WAY overpriced
yes its very sad and i get such convesations also.
i was on tatooine to chekc some harveters and got a tell for i forgot which structure.
jerk01: can u make xyz?
me: of course i can 
jerk01: how much?
me: price (5cr per unit)
jerk01: wow thats a rip of and overpriced, other architects count the costs!
me: i do also and i charge 5cr per unsed unit, its also work and skills in it not only resources
jerk01: man u rip ppl of i seel resources for 3 to 5 cr per unit, so u are on high end prices
me: wanted toask why its right he sells resources, without skills, risk of fails and time inestment for alot clicking and i am wrong with 5cr per unit on finished product.
but before i could type jerk01 logged off
sad world and yes PAs can destroy the economy badly.
but most bad thing is that it seems that the ppl are even proud of qwhat they doing /sigh
I put a spreadsheet together (so I'm a nerd) that has all the structures listed... all sub-components, total resources used, and I have several totals listed.
1 - @cost total price
2 - Retail cost total price
3 - Actual sale price.
I have 2 input variables "@cost" and "Retail" cpu amount.
From this spreadsheet I can price my structures and dynamically see the amount of profit by just changing the above 2 variables. My @cost is normally priced at either 2 or 3 cpu. (since I mine most of my own resources).
I can honestly say this... when I was shopping around I argued the cost a bit... now that I actually build them I have seen the light and fully understand why the pricing structure is the way it is.
I've been thinking of putting my excel spreadsheet and coding it into a .NET or ColdFusion page. For other architects to use.
Would anyone be interested in this? I would have to host it locally (which might hit my game play a little hehe) but I use this a lot to tally my prices.
I to have gotten the age old, "...whoa, way to much, I've found it for this price" and also simply got a "...I'm looking for a solar generator, I found some for 10k can you do better?" My general response is usually ".. if you can get it cheaper then by all means get it cheaper. No problem in smart shopping"
However, I have had numorous orders where ppl just give me a tell, "... how soon for 4 med mineral miners, 2 small houses, etc, etc" Since I post my prices it's clearly known... you can order or not order, but don't haggle.
I do however offer the option for someone to get the resources and I pay 2cpu per resource and take that off the total cost of the structure. They get a structure at a cheaper price and I get more resources cheaper than the bazaar at best.
The chuckle I got was when he said "I am trying to educate you".
Generally businesses don’t educate customers, it is the other way around.
I will never forget when i worked for a company that was coming out with a new product, The product was exactly the opposite of what research said the customer wanted. Upper managements reply to questions was that they intend to educate the customers, of course you know the end of the story already, the customers did not buy the product and upper management got their education.
Dont get me wrong the guy selling for 3 and wanting to buy for nothing was a jerk, But the educate line was a little funny. Best path is to find what the customer wants, and figure a way out to give it to them if you can.
Dayln... LOL... I knew you wouldn't be able to resist posting to this thread.
Didn't You forget to add the parts about architecture being a PvP war, and Wal-mart being the best thing since the wheel?
But seriously...
I don't think its as simple as saying 'The customer should educate the business'.
I work for a company that started off as nothing about 10 years ago. We have a whole team of people who 'Educate the Customer'. We are now the undisputed market leader for a whole slew of products in the US Automotive Aftermarket (many hundreds of millions of dollars).
Tell me... did educating the customer put us out of business? LOL
I'm sure that you aren't so simple that you realy believe a single rule will hold across all business are you?
I have on a number of occasions taken the time to 'Educate' potential architecture customers. Most people buying structures have ZERO clue about the quantity of resources involved, and while of course some will never understand our problems it is pleasantly surprising how many do.
My own guildmates who craft non-architecture items are frequently SHOCKED just how much material I have to Harvest/Buy in order to do business.
Oh no, I agree it isnt that simple, but the line reminded me of that incident. Cost them billions of dollars ( this was a big company ). I am not saying he was wong and I am not saying you are wrong. But the flip side ofit is, that if you can give em what they want, they will buy from you.
Whenyou cant, so you try to educate, sometimes that works and sometimes it doesnt.
Well guys I may be one of the guys you hate I may one of the guys you love, but here it is.
My prices are inline with most of you I may be a little bit cheaper, but here is my difference.
I don't argue with these folks. Period.
How much is a medium Tattoine house?
55k
WOW! That's expensive let me look around..
Cool
I am currently working on upgrading all my harvesters to heavies and if i have to run missions for two hours to pay for em, no big deal, but I won't.
I give a shout every time I hit a port with what i have in my backpack and someone says when can you have it done and I say NOW, and it is sold
Yeah the UBAH PA kidz are undercutting the market, well brothers sooner or later some of the little errand boys that are running the harvetsers and using their lots are gonna want a piece of the candy and that my frineds is where it will fall apart.
They have a case of the hereafter disease...
I will be here after they are LOOONG gone
PA's break up...friends don't.
You guys on chilastra want to even the playing field? Find his guild's harvetsers and find who the belong to and offer to buy the materials...
undercut the undercutter, cause if they are just GIVING him the resources, well money talks, hehe.
"if it is worth doing, it is worth doing for CREDITS,
If it is worth doign well, it is worth doing for MORE CREDITS..."
Yea, I have had similiar conversations but, only 1 person said well, I can get for cheaper and I say go right ahead.
Most of my convos go...
them: Can you make me a food factory (or whatever)
me: Sure
them: How much?
me: 40k
them: Really? that much? I don't have that kind of cash.
me: Yep, that's just a hair under 3CPU (rounded down to 40k even). They use 13550 resources.
them: Oh, didn't know that.
Most of them do not realize structures use so many resources but when I tell them how many resources, most of them understand. Most of them are pretty cool about it and when I tell them I can't sell for less, most understand. I do tell them if they bring me the materials, I will do it for free though. Most tell me they will just have to wait till they get the cash or they just don't get one.
I have had only 1 or 2 tell me that they can get it for much cheaper from their guild architect but, they aren't on at the moment and need one bad. I say ok, get it from them then and go about my business.
I will not go under 3CPU, even though I harvest all my own materials. My time is worth more than that and I am trying to stay within reason and not lowball others.
There have been a few instances where I sold for less. Most of them were small houses when I was starting in order to get some cash and get going and sometimes just to unload whatever it is cause it's tying up cash I need.
I have got a good buffer now though and usually sell for 3CPU all the time. If they don't like my prices, then they can go get it from Joe Blow selling for 1CPU or something. I bet they won't be in business long.
Most people tell me my prices are reasonable. They aren't too low and they aren't too high (except for those that don't know what all goes into them).
Ok, I need the other experienced architects to help me here, but I think I got the math right. I'll be posting this in a seperate thread as a message to the people that wonder why we charge a certain amount for something.
I have seen threads where some architects (mainly inexperienced ones) say they much "a pretty good profit" at selling a small house for 8k. I'm attempt to try to explain why you don't make "a pretty good profit" at that price.
Since Ore is the biggest resource we use to make structures I used it as an example to determin profit and why certain structures are sold at certain prices... and why some ppl selling "Small Naboo Houses for 8k" just don't seem to understand.
This is based if you started 1 solar generator and 1 medium mineral harvester at the same time. Bear in mind, anyone with business skills know that you still have to cover the initial cost of start-up before you can really consider anything "profit" but here goes. Experienced Architects please check my math and such so it's explained better: (hope everyone cal follow this)
Medium Harvester and Solar Generator
Solar Power bought from Bazaar to cover 1st initial day (2cpu)
2400credits
Daily Maint cost on Medium Mineral Harvester
1440
Daily Power Consumption of Medium Mineral Harvester
1200
Daily Maint cost of Solar Generator
1440
Total cost for day 1
5280
24hrs after first day harvesting
Total Resources at 60%3456
Total Power at 50%5760
Total Resource value after initial 24hr period (@2cpu)
6912
Number of ore to make 1 small Naboo house
2460
Cost of ore used to make 1 Small Naboo House (@2cpu)
4920
House sale of 8000
Subtract ore usage cost
3080
Total profit after 1st sale after first day
2200
This does not include the initial power purchase to start the harvester...
Multiply all by 5 (to span 1 week)
Maint cost is by 5 and number houses sold is by 4. Since you can't make a house until you actually harvest resources
Total credits used to run harvester and solar generator
5280 x 526400
Total resources collected in 5 day window
3456 x 517280
Amount of ore to make 4 houses (1 a day after the first initial day
9840
Total cost of harvested resources after 5 days at 2cpu
86400
Total cost of used resources to make 4 houses
39360
4 houses sold at 8k each
32000
Subtract net sales from actual cost of ore used
7360Profit from sales which needs to be used to buy the remaining resources to build the house
If remaining resources were bought on bazaar at bazaar prices (typically 3cpu)
Chemical 18 x 472times 3cpu216
Metal 860 x 43440times 3cpu10320
Steel 50 x 4200times 3cpu600
Total spent on bazaar11136
Total profit after 4 small naboo houses at 8k each
-3776
Again you still have to cover the initial purchase of the solar power to cover the first day's harvester run....
Where's the profit?
You also have to add in redeed cost when the resource changes.
I never made much cash when I was only ableto make and sell smalls. I had to do delivery missions to suppliment the cost of running harvesters. It wasn't until I could make and sell medium houses and harvesters that I started making a decent living and not have to run missions.
One thing I thought about adding to my above post is that if you harvested those other resouces with the left over power and 3 personal harvesters...
Personal harvester at 60% efficiency:
Daily Maint cost of Personal Harvester x3 (720 x 3) = 2,160 (multiply by 5) 10,800
Daily resource count: 1,728 times 3, then times 5 = 25,920
Cost of each resource (3,712) used at 2cpu: 7,424
Total cost of resources (including ore) for 4 houses (7424+39360) = 43,072
Net sale of 4 houses at 8k each: 32,000
Subtract resource cost used: 11,072 Profit.
Now let's pay for the other harvesters for the 5 day span:
Subtract 10800 from 11072 = 272!!!!!! Do we need to subtract the first initial purchase of power to cover the ore harvester for day 1???? I think we can see that when explained like this if you sold small houses (not including generics) for 8k and sold1 a day for 4 days this is what you end up with... 272 in your pocket that doesn't have to go towards your harvesters... but you'll need a lot more to cover the 6th day's maint fee's for both your harvester, solar, and your 3 other personal harvesters...
And ppl wonder why we charge 12-15k for a small planetary house.
Scortch wrote:
You also have to add in redeed cost when the resource changes.
I never made much cash when I was only ableto make and sell smalls. I had to do delivery missions to suppliment the cost of running harvesters. It wasn't until I could make and sell medium houses and harvesters that I started making a decent living and not have to run missions.
Very good point... mediums are 3k to redeed alone. I think I also forgot to factor in the daily maint of the solar... if I did... then the second number should be negative as well. WOW.. .now that I think about it. I need to raise my prices.. hahahaha.
I can tell you from long years of experience in retail sales management you don't want that type of customer in a game. Someone who expects so much for so little is usually more of a problem once you sell them stuff than they were before you sold them stuff to get them off your back
I have to aplogize to you all, having undercut prices myself. At the time it seemed like the right thing to do. Yes I knew that my price was half of the market rate but at 0 credits, and knowing that there was 2k of aresource I needed to make another house sitting in the bazaar for 3k it seemed to be the best way to get the XP. This is the key to understand about undercutters. Most of us don't do it for long. we aren't trying to make a profit yet, we are just trying to offset the cost of gaining XP. Having mastered Artisan now and moving into Architecture I am charging 2x to 3xthe priceI started with. But I see the market getting drastically undercut by people doing the same thing I was. So what is the fix?
The best Idea I've seen so far is to help out Novices. Few shoppers are really concerned about the experimentation you put into the deed starting out (small houses and harvs). They just want the extra storage capacity. So If you are a master, Find Players that are starting out and take them on as apprentices. Give them 25% more than they would ask for and resell it your self. This seems cheap to some people but when you look at it, it isn't. The Grinding crafter isn't concerned yet about turning a profit, they are concerned about affording more material to get XP. So you help them out by giving them the extra cash, make a little extra your self and help keep prices stable. This has another benefit for you if you are workingon merchant XP. You will have more items to sell in your vendors and there will be potentially less vendors meaning more people will visit your shop and give you a better chance for return customers.