Architect Archive
Thread: Got my first you are waaaay overpriced comment yesterday.
Wow, looks like I started an interesting, if sometimes heated discussion. I have been sparring with Dayl on this and another thread for two days. LOL. Even though I disagree on allot, I still respect his opinion, and think on some things he said are correct.
I think I got it nailed down as to the differences now. Two posts from two different people, I will quote from point out on what the disagreement is about, and the two difference of opinions.
"Who do you want to be a jerk to, the guy with a couple mil in the banking making more money selling resources at 3cr/u than you looking to by another harvester, or the new player that thinks being an architect would be a fun profession having to use personal harvesters and buying resources form the big time miner. I would choose the guy with a few mil creds."
and
"That does not mean that I am not interested in improving the architect class as a whole, I do. But I draw the line at changing my business practices so other architects get some more of my customers, I wont do that, I don’t know any business that would do that."
It all comes down to what you really want out of this game. If you are out to "crush the competition" and make as many sales as possible by "draw(ing) the line at changing my business practices so other architects get some more of my customers. I won't do that", you are playing this game to win. To defeat others.
If you are like the person from my first quote, you are out to play a profession that you enjoy. You like to get ahead, but not at the risk of hurting the profession you are playing. You would sooner make the profession you like a good one, by not making matters worse for other people that are also architects. When you compete, you are not going to compete by massive undercutting and walmart tactics, you will compete by building something faster, advertising better, answering customer questions... better than the other guy.
Either way is reasonable, but one way is more self serving and combative, the other way is more social and "nice".
Like I said before, just because you CAN do something, does not mean you SHOULD do something.
Dayl, just because you CAN undercut the competition to below resourse sale costs, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
If you do, people need to understand you are no asset or allie to the architect profession, but an oponent to be exposed for the self serving person(in game speaking only) you are.
One final thing. I keep seeing you make statements that people can buy and sell for 3/cr each all they want, because you get them for .5 each, and insinuate somehow that makes the entire arguement of...
Why gather resources for, build and sell a house for 3 cpu, when you could sell the resources alone for 3 cpu....
Invalid.
People that are making that statement are NOT buying the resources, and therefore raising prices of the house. They are simply looking at a pile of ore they mined and discovering that if the put any work into that ore and make it into something, it will be worth the same or less than it currently is.
Basically, why take the materials I mined and turn it into something worth less. While I am at it, btw, I also saw someone ask this same question...
Why do you take materials that will sell for 3-5 cpu(yes, that is the current real price) and turn them into something that sells for 3 cpu or less? WHY?
I dont expect other architects to like me, Do you think the people at Macys like the people at Sears? Do you think one will go out of thier way to help the profits of the others?
But I am not crazy, Im not the guy selling small houses for 4k when everyone else sells at 10K
Im the guy that sells for 9k when most others sell for 10k, but I will defend the guy that sells for 4k, he can set whatever price he wants.
I like my profits, I like them as high as I can get them ( as a sturcture dealer, not a resource dealer ) while still being 10-20% less than the competition.
I am a VERY social player, but with my customers as my focus. I work for them.
I didn’t answer your question.
I realize I could make more money ( on a few on my items, most sell for just over 3 ) just selling resources, just like I know many business that would make more money if they plowed over their buildings and made a parking lot. But they wont do it because they are passionate about their business as I am.
I like providing my customers with a very good product and a very competitive price, and I do it while reaping very large profits. I understand that I might make even more profits selling the resources, but I would not derive as much satisfaction from that.
Money is NOT my only goal, believe it or not, I happen to know it is not the only goal for many businesses. Else they would turn their property into parking lots.
A few points.
I cant play crush the competition, I have limited lots, limited resources, iI cant buy resources and make structures ( not at my prices ). I don’t play crush the competition else I would sell for 2cr per unit, I don’t my prices are just a bit lower than yours ( probably, maybe not ).
I do play a social MMOL I am very social with my customers and work very closely with them. I give gifts away with each sale ( usually a couple of trees as a housewarming present ) and I visit my customers new house.
I do have a shared interested with the architect community in working the problems with this class, Experimentation, decay and so forth, I am very supportive and will help in any way I can.
You are wrong that I don’t care about the community of architects, what I don’t care about is your personal business. I wont change my practices so that you get more of my customers.
A business has to draw a line somewhere ( chuckle )
Heh, got my first "way overpriced" comment a couple of days ago. It was for my personal harvester deeds of all things. I didn't even bother replying.
What gets me is that I price my furniture at 5 to 20 cpu and I get comments that I am underpriced!
As for the whole who is a better businessman argument I only have one thing to say:
Business 101: If you can sell your raw materials for more than you can sell your finished product, then you are in the wrong business.
Asd I have said before, I know many busiensst hat would make more money if they paved over thier offices and opened a parking lot. They are passionate about the busines they have, I am pasionate in the same way.
Good or bad, I dont care, what I do know is that I am prepared to continue to run a sucuessfull busienss as the lack of demand pushes prices even lower.
Err, ok, I'll admit it. I've made the millions I have and continue to make by pricing my goods based on the market for the goods instead of tying them to some arbitrary subjective number. I don't market my goods at all any more, all my business is word of mouth. I don't even go into town very often other than to make deliveries so I'm rarely found on a search list. Do folks go to the trouble to find me based on my reputation for having the lowest price around? Nope. They come to me when they tire of waiting for the guy with that lowest price to finally get around to filling their order. When they find that by paying a little more than the discount price they can have their order filled in mere hours or even minutes most jump at the chance.
Some folks run their business as a means of stroking their ego. Nothing wrong with that if it makes them happy. Some folks run their business as a business. When it comes down to the bottom line all thats important is being happy with what you have accomplished. So if it makes some folks happy to think they are revered by the masses for their low prices I say lower em some more. Long order lists for discount prices are my bread and butter heh, and I promise not to mention what they say about you when they come to me to buy what they needed a week ago.
Tued the Master Builder
Hey Troll head is back!
Yep, my account is nearing record ( for me ) marks too, and I didn’t make the cash during the initial start up when few people had houses and the was a sellers market, I did it during the beginning of the market downturn and the buyers market, we will see if we can both continue to do so.
I am not questioning that your business is successful TH, But I know for a fact that mine is.
Of course when Dayln felt the need to insult me personally I did point out that he is right to feel badly about me as a competitor. I understand why he might lash out like that when faced with the hard cold facts of business in a PvP environment. You hear the same sort of thing from folks in the GWC after they get DBed heh.
Tued the Master Builder
LOL, I meant it as funny ( I am not sure he got it ) as he was calling me a troll in our last bout, he was railroading a conversation that had nothing to do with pricing because he was annoyed that I wouldn’t agree with him in another topic. He didn’t seem to take it too seriously here which is good, because it wasn’t really meant that way.
However I am starting to think we need to start out own topic as we ( all of us ) have a tendency to railroad others into our own discussion.
I was thinking about something that GMT said about my playing "Crush the competition". I don’t really, I knew what I was doing was not what everyone else was going to do so I laid down some ground rules for myself.
I don’t advertise on the boards, not on the world board and not here.
I don’t ever tell to someone my prices that is buying from someone else.
I never shout my prices in a town where I see others shouting a higher price.
I don’t take any more than 20 lots ( I could increase that to 40 lots in a heartbeat with the current membership in our PA )
I believe I could play "crush the competition" and at lest take over all sales on my planet ( with some help from my PA of course ) on my server ( probably not the galaxy ) if I put my mind to it, but I don’t really want to do that. That is if no one rose to the challange, actually I expect some would probably give me a run for my money.
Crush the competition is not really what I do. My prices are only a little less than most ( and higher than some ). I suppose what I am doing is more of an isolated experiment.
I am having fun anyway
Well, its good to see some things never change... I've been on these boards less and less of late because it simply isn't worth my time. But, I return to find that Dayin, you're still telling everyone else that they are wrong about their knowledge of business and that Walmart's pricing strategy is the only one that works.
Let me ask you this.... Is Walmart in any large item business opportunities, like real estate? Not to my knowledge... and the truth of the matter is that Walmart ISN'T lower on everything... they use what is called a "loss leader" which is an advertised item sold at a loss so that customers come into the store. Why? because while they are there they also buy a large number of items (typically) that actually may be priced MORE than the competition and that is where they make their profits.
Where is the item that the architect can turn to for this? Well, its furniture of course. Sell that house at 9 or 10k, no problem if the customer also purchases 25k in furniture you priced at 10cpu. I always have my house customers meet me at my shop(if they are a ways away I actually cover their travel expenses)for 2 reasons. 1) it eliminates potential trade problems with factions and 2) it lets them look over furniture while they are there... I always discount furniture purchases made at time of house sales to get them started and then they almost always return and pay regular price to finish off their home decorating.
So, if this is the business strategy people are using... I see it as a valid comparison to Walmart.... if you are just saying that Walmart sells lower than everyone else.... it is in fact an invalid argument and I would question your actual understanding of Walmarts business practices.
Now, you commented on Ford and the rest getting together every year... its very possible that they are meeting to fix prices.... its also an opportunity for them to discuss how to keep their business as a whole viable. An opportunity to talk about domestic carmakers issues vs. foreign carmakers. They are *gasp* looking for ways to keep their businesses profitable and viable as a group. I know its hard to believe but they actually look for ways to keep them all in business.