CUEmu - Thread Posts

FaceGarikLoran

Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:39 am

It seems u still aint listening, and although u said i was making a martyr outa my prices, u're thread towards the end sounded like u were the martyr......

My point against u, and why Im so stuborn back to what im receiving off u is the fact that U wont let me even get started in the proffesion of selling, and decide to buy my products to make ureself a profit from!

From resources i've inherited and minned, I havent made any loss in the sales that I have made!

But u want me to sell the harvisters at 120k - same priceas everyone else - now why would anyone come to me, instead of u who for 'argument sake' sells them at the same price - or anyone else? (saying u sold them at 120k) - I aint seeing the advantage of barkers... especially as they auto-store after a while!

Ever heard of competitive pricing?

Just very sad, and unsporting u come and buy my stock out for u're selling.... Instead of letting me get a little bit of a 'rep' for what I sell, then be able to increase my prices to what I call a profit....

Garik Loran
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KRONOS1974

Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:59 am

#41

Just very sad, and unsporting u come and buy my stock out for u're selling.... Instead of letting me get a little bit of a 'rep' for what I sell, then be able to increase my prices to what I call a profit....

Sorry but once you drop your prices and other architects drop theirs it will be 100% harder for you to raise them again. People will want those cheap prices again and again.

You dont get a good rep by selling low, you get a good rep by having a large inventory, finishing orders on a timely manor, giving "discounts" to regular customers, and talking and keeping your customers informed. Not by selling cheap.

Only rep you get doing that is " oh hes the cheap arch lets go to him"

But what ever floats your boat. Also selling cheap takes a toll on your resources and crafted item. Not many can keep up selling real low. Ive seen so many architects come out with 200-300 harvesters for a fraction of what other sell- they sell them off and i never see them again. "its to hard to get ore", " its to much hassle", or any other excuses. Long as they made their quick credits they dont care- till they run out

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Flashya

Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:07 pm

#42

FaceGarikLoran wrote:

Just very sad, and unsporting u come and buy my stock out for u're selling....

Yeah... all 7 deeds cleaned you out unfortunately.

There's nothing sad about me reselling. It's perfectly legitamate.. don't expect sympathy off any other Architect's when you're selling at wholesale price.

Competitive pricing? yes, the 1000 deeds I owned are on my vendor. I'm selling BER13's for 90k... undercutting every architect on the server to clear out everything I have.

Competitive, and very sporting in your eyes obviously.

[ N i g h t s t a l k e r ] CEO of Hardcore Pawn Industries, Main Superstore located on Naboo, Theed @ -3859, 3571
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Cafa

Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:57 pm

#43

Dvnce wrote:

ZenDragonMLS wrote:

I'm saying that every crafter needs to figure out how to get the resources to do their job. Some crafters don't need *quantity* so much as they need *quality* or *diversity*. For example, weaponsmiths need a lot of different "named" resources, and they must constantly look for those that are better than the ones they have. Architects typically need quantity above else.

So, in response to their *specific* resource needs, different crafters make individual choices as to how to deal with those needs. Here are *some* avenues that they can pursue:

1. Make agreements with existing or new friends to "use" their lots for things. For example, among my friends on Chilastra it isn't unusual at all for the combat-oriented characters to "hold" some factories or houses for crafters. Notice that this "use" can be static or dynamic. There are times in my guild where a crafter will say "I need some of the new spawn of XX - would one of you guys go put up a harvester on it at waypoint YY?" Many guilds have arrangements like this.

2. Buy a 2nd (3rd, 4th) account so they can *directly* control more lots.

3. Buy resources on the open market or employ "contract" miners to get the material. The distinction that I'd make between #1 and #3 is that #1 is typically over an extended period of time and is quite often based on a "trust" relationship that involves putting people on the admin list for things. I see #3 as strictly a "commercial" interaction.

4. Make agreements with total strangers to "lease" their lots. This can be similar in structure to #1, but it is strictly a commercial arrangement. For example, there are people (#1) where I would trust with my house or my factory, but the #4 people that I'm leasing from I might not trust with anything more expensive than a medium mineral harvester. There have been MANY statements in this forum about people doing this.

5. Same deal as #4 except the characters holding the lots don't play much (if at all) on your server. Because of that distinction, #5 is referred to as "cross-server lot trading".

Which ones of these are "illegal" or "immoral"? Which ones give a crafter an "unfair advantage"? Which ones are more prevalent?

Message Edited by ZenDragonMLS on 06-30-2004 09:35 AM

Here is the problem... At one time.. there were no lot caps.. no there is more to the reason than just some guy eledgedly crashing the server with all the harvesters he put down....

I am going to explain this as simple as I can... the Balance which is the goal to obtain by limiting lots to 10.. is that within a servers own ACTIVE players a balanced market would be acheived.. meaning that production would be close to demand..

Now lets assume there are only 10 people on the server with there 10 lots.. .. the goal is that out of those 100 lots those ten people would be able to have houses.. ( start a city) and do what ever they want in the game.. the balance is based off of 100 lots.. serving 10 people... but .. 1 guy goes to another server and trades.. now there are 110 lots serving 10 active players.. that guy goes to 10 other servers.. now there are 200 lots serving 10.. it would be fine if these new Ghost Toons actually participated in the world.. ( used guns.. armor.. clothes.. meds... the stuff that helps to consume the supply..) but they arent and that is where the imbalance is growing from..

I have no problem with your list here 1-4.. because even most people that have multiple accounts actually play those other accounts too.. I know alot of crafters have a second to use for fighting.. so they are still active.. The imbalance is from one guy controlling.. 300 lots.. ( harvesters) that is 29 ghost toons.. that is 290 lots worth adding to the Supply .. and there is not a balancing counter part added to consume the extra supply... two months ago this wasnt a problem.. because the balancing counter part was HoloGrinding.. ( buying 1 mil resources to grind away in practice mode was never to be intended as normal) but we are VERY close to seeing the hologrind end..

Does that paint a better picture of the problem?

I repeated all because it is very relevant.

Now we come to the point where I have open calls for people to "lease" or "rent" lots in the game. My question is, what assurance does the renting party ever get from this arrangement?

12 different times I'm rented lots from people, only to have them sell my harvestors, steal the resources, and even delete their characters. That's over 80+ harvestors gone and I don't mean mediums or personals. Garva and Jess have both stated I can make no public statements on the forum about someone's actions, even if I have proof, and the CSRs point blank refuse to discuss someone else's lot use.

So let's say that people do what you want... We are still stuck with a system that perpetuates fraud and screws only the crafter. Do I see any of you advocating anything to help solidify contracts in this game? Do I see any of you doing anything to advocate soldifying responsibility in the game? Do I see anyone of your advocating anything that would hold someone responsible for fraud committed? Nope.

All I see is NERF the people that produce better than me because it's UNFAIR. There is exactly one time in this life that anything fair happens to you, and that's death. We all die. Other than that it's pretty much unfair from the time of conception for most. Someone is always smarter, better looking, born to wealth, whatever. Stop asking for fairness and start asking for contracts administration and I will be the first to agree.

Fivo Asia

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Pawlin

Fri Jul 02, 2004 5:10 pm

#44

Cafa wrote:

....So let's say that people do what you want... We are still stuck with a system that perpetuates fraud and screws only the crafter. Do I see any of you advocating anything to help solidify contracts in this game? Do I see any of you doing anything to advocate soldifying responsibility in the game? Do I see anyone of your advocating anything that would hold someone responsible for fraud committed? Nope....

Yes the game could use some sort of contract enforcement. You raise a good point that renting/leasing could be improved by a better transaction. If you have a good idea about how that could be accomplished then lets hear it. I am sure most everyone will agree and support it.

But I don't think contract enforcement will address any problems that SOE thinks lot trading might be causing. As long as people can do cross server lot trading for free and it is an effective solution many / most of the people doing it will never choose renting or leasing instead. I'm sure the attitude would be: Why pay for something they can get for free?

I agree it seems like a stupid policy when SOE doesn't let people air their complaints about scammersin public. I'm not really sure what their motive is besides not wanting flame wars that look bad in public or wanting people to think the game is full of scammers.

Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
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Pawlin

Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:07 am

#45

FaceGarikLoran wrote:

...is the fact that U wont let me even get started in the proffesion of selling, and decide to buy my products to make ureself a profit from!

You sold the products at the price you set, right? There is nothing stopping anyone else from buying and reselling your stuff except if you ban them and even thats not very hard to get around. If your prices are very low then resellers are something you'll have to get used to. People are out to make a buck. Buy low, sell high is a proven strategy. Granted this particular case seems to be more of a fued between architects but in general reselling is not evil.

From resources i've inherited and minned, I havent made any loss in the sales that I have made!

Do you base your cost on stuff make from resources you "inherit" or mine on what the value of the raw materials are?

But u want me to sell the harvisters at 120k - same priceas everyone else - now why would anyone come to me, instead of u who for 'argument sake' sells them at the same price - or anyone else? (saying u sold them at 120k) -

Why did someone I don't know buy 3 heavy chemicals for 143k each off my unadvertised Coronet vendor when there are 7-8 stocked vendors with heavies for 80-120k in our galaxy?

Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ
Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain

** Please refer to Elyssa's answer

Ravioli_DND

Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:46 am

#46

Hello??? Anyone here?

You can charge whatever you want for items. I don't see Tesco's moaning when Sainsburys drop their prices.

Come on guys get a life and if you don't like someone else's prices drop yours or advertise more.

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Fneegan

Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:57 am

#47

Some very GOOD posts

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And - they all point to:

cross server swapping of static lots. Those, who have many accounts and getting/placingadditional lots and building farms of 200 or 300.

Just imagine how many units of resources 200 harvesters bring in each and every day. Where's it going?

- hoarding

- crafting

- selling

Why is it MORE PREVALENT that we are seeing Architects undercutting other Architects?

Why are we seeing more resources lower priced than ever before.

And - I doubt there is any GOOD solution because of course - it affect them the most and they're gonna cry the loudest.

The only thing I think can be done is to make it a little more difficult and more workon the REAL OWNER of the harvester or factory.

Once someone does CROSS SERVER LOT SWAPPING - that harvester/factory is there FOREVER or as long as the maintainer puts in credits. So by:

SINGLE ADMIN (harvesters and factories)

FORCE REDEEDing (every 10 days of harvesters and factories)

It does many things:

- If forces the REALOWNERS to have want to come back and redeed it. Of course, some will continue doing it. But, for farms of 200 or 300, we're talking getting a hold of 25 or more ppl....lol...

They know, this will destroy it and resolve much of the problem.

Does it really affect the MAJORITY (average miners) to have single admin? No.

It only affect them in that a person who goes on vacation will have the choice to either pick up the harvesterbefore going - or at some point the harvester stops. And even that's very acceptable. If you're gone away - your first 10 days are covered. Why should a miner who's gone any longer benefit the same as a miner who actully is there? So, the one who is there benefits from being there - the way it should be.

Does it really affect the MAJORITY (average miners) to force redeeding ? Not really.

Most miners are only mining a fewthings at a time. So, in order to get different things, they are either dropping other types of harvesters or moving them to find a better spawn. I think, the MAJORITY of miners don't leave their harvesters in the same place - it's mainly (of course) the STATIC lots that stay in the same place.

CajunWolfen

Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:24 am

#48

I agree we should keep a reasonable price so or char can make a reasonable income

Sorax

Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:57 am

#49

Does it really affect the MAJORITY (average miners) to force redeeding ? Not really

It Affect me when i don't want to move them to redeed them anyways and I am an Average Miner/Architect.....so your not really is a Yes it Does affect Joe Average....

Sorax Master Artisian-Architect-Merchant
Vendors located in Theed Mall -6611 3979

LuciferMullins

Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:43 pm

#50

In an MMORPG most of the cost/margin is purely time. Some people think their time in gathering / assembly is worth very little / nothing [I'd like to have people like this in the real world working for me!] others consider the time going to and fro as part of the transaction.

Problem

1) You cannot set prices, it won't work, everyone knows this.

1a) Make it so you only have a 100 schematic like the devs intended originally. Sure you'd piss off alot of people, but hey you'd make those harvesters more time consuming to create and take away an advantage of the 100k stackers. Before anyone goes"They 'll just run x schematics" Yeah and it takes time, and resources, to make each one. It also takes time to go to the factory and put the schematic in.

2) Why will this raise prices?

2a) Like in real life, people in jobs are paid for skill and time. Some will still value their time less but it now takes more of theirs.

3) The most expensive items are those that are the rarest and most effective.

3a) Insert special "limited" schematics which are quest based and only obtainable by master architects. This has precedent in the Krayt tissue weapons, AV-21 landspeeders, limited schematics like the Republic Blasters and Scythes. Making them questable only by the master makes it harder to "farm" schematics. These schematics will be enhanced this or that (a little better BER, faster assembly time [for factories])

No it will not be perfect, but it might make a difference. Can't screw it up any worse

Degriz Morningstar
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saber51

Sun Jul 04, 2004 1:08 am

#51

I've quietly sat by and watched this profession go back and forth. Regarding pricing issues, lot space issues, nerfing issue. I've seen players propose solutions to problems but in all that time not once have I seen a single person propose a serious and commited proposal to finding a solution be it by individual server or the entire game itself.

I've been a Master Arch since the 3rd week of launch. I ground my way to master the hard way before practice modes and such existed. Yet the one conisistency that has always kept me with repeat business is how I treat my customers. I see all this whining about price fixing and price gouging and buying out the other guys harvesters. But in the end I canconsistently sell product any place, dayor time, Simply because of my quality of customer service and dedication, and that is the key to making it in this business. Not how many lots you can cross server trade with, or farm out to friends and guild mates, and yes will readily admit that i use trusted friends and guild mates to assist in gathering materials but never have I used a cross server trade.

It all still comes down to one thing only.

It's about customer service.

If you want to whine about something, whine about unfinished professions or system bugs that cause games errors, or what you may see as lack of content. It was pointed out that in many ways what happend in this game revolves around us and what we do, that we are "god in this game", but keep in mind that the Dev's giveth and the thus they can taketh away. If we are to become so arrogant as to assume this game can do nothing without us and we become abusive, you can rest assured the devs will find a solution and I'm sure it's not one we would enjoy.

But that said and aside. You want break into this profession you have to do it better and faster than the next guy. You need to provide a service I don't, I've never had to price a single heavy unit for more than 100k and there are still many many other established archs on the wanderhome server who sell thier products the same as me.

In th real world there are laws and regulations to allow small business to get its' foot in the door of a particular market. If we didn't we would be force fed what to dress, what to eat and how to live. This is a game, remember that and live with it. How you act here is merely a reflection of how you live in the real world.

So for those of you who buy my products and resell them at a higher price, buy to your hearts content. To me a sale is a sale, so long as I keep the ink in the black I could care less if your a buyer or reseller. So those of you who want to get pissed because the competition shops you out. Stop whining and get smarter about doing business. You all sit and whine about how this and that is unfair, as it was previously pointed out in an earlierpost the only thing fair in life is death. Other than that it comes down to your own personal ethic and value of honor and integrity. So quite your bitchin and lets get back to playin. I"m here to have some fun, I get enough real world garbage with the job I do cleaning up what society doesn't have the stomach to handle in the first place, This is the last place I need to see a bunch cry babies screaming about unfair pricing and not being about to compete.

My apologies for the hijack.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled rant already in progress

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Located in Aloysius just 3k north of Coronet

Flashya

Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:05 am

#52

Pawlin wrote:

Flashya wrote:

.... don't expect sympathy off any other Architect's when you're selling at wholesale price.

Who defines 'wholesale price'? You or him? Or nobody? If you were trying to strong arm someone into joining your price fixing cartel and when they declined you bought them out then ya, he might get some sympathy. I'm not saying that is what happened but it seems like a possible interpretation of events.

By wholesale price, I was referring to the pretty much bare minimum you can actually make the product for, and sell to break even. I worked it out by pricing on our current resources for the server. There's no price fixing cartel going on. I don't tell people what to sell their products at. Garik's a new architect. If he'd done his maths, he'd probably realise that the prices he's selling at are breaking him even... my advice was to up his prices a bit. Looking at the general "genre" of this thread, I'd say that most Architects here would agree that 100k per BER13 is rock bottom wholesale.. for Chimaera that is.

Competitive pricing? yes, the 1000 deeds I owned are on my vendor. I'm selling BER13's for 90k... undercutting every architect on the server to clear out everything I have.

So its ok now that you undercut everyone else but it was not ok when he was doing it?

It's not, but I've given up trying to prove my point. I've given up the profession entirely. This last sale is to get rid of ... /stops broken record playing. At one deed per day I'd never clear my vendor.. hopefully this will help. Every Architect on Chimaera has dropped their prices at some point, just to get ahead of their neighbours. Fact of the matter is, the only "price fixing" I've done is tried to influence other Architects to up their prices, so that everyone can gain more profit, (the profit that they deserve) through going through this tiresome profession.Obviously through trying to do a good deed, it's backfired.

Like I say, I'm tired of trying to stick up for this profession... I've said all I can really.

/signoff

[ N i g h t s t a l k e r ] CEO of Hardcore Pawn Industries, Main Superstore located on Naboo, Theed @ -3859, 3571
[ F i s h C h i p s ] Retired Master Architect.
Please Contact FishChips for all in-game enquiries and auctions. Deliver winnings to fishchips vendors at the loc above, thanks.

Architect Archive

Thread: Sick of undercutting. Making a statement.