Architect Archive

Cpark that all looks good.

Very nice post, Cpark. I think that if we saw that they were attempting to implement even just a couple of those types of ideas people would be much more willing to work with the developers on this. As I said earlier, the lack of these types of merchant capabilities, coupled with the proposed limits, will absolutely screw over the player base in a number of ways.

Thanks to Pawlin and ZenDragon for the comments.

I don't think any of the changes I compiled from the groups will happen. I believe the most likely outcome will be -- and others have echoed the sentiment -- that the limits will be put in place at a higher level and the players will have to live with the fallout.

Changes this sweeping would require careful planning, programming effort, artwork, user interface redesign and work on both the servers and the clients. That is not likely to happen. The changes may not be on the scale of a combat revamp, but the insight we have into the resources available to the development team suggest they don't have the capacity to mount an effort of this size.

In their defense, we don't know how they are spending their time. And beyond a roadmap we shouldn't. No one can run a business with their customers looking over the shoulders of the workers second-guessing their every move. That is why I think abandoning the roadmap they had laid out must have been a very hard thing to do. They were working toward a good balance of telling players what was planned and keeping flexibility. I suspect JtLS forced this group to take one for the team. But if that's what happened they can't tell us that either

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Brantoc-Pax wrote:

I'm going to be the voice of reason, and perhapts make an enemy or two.

Currently harvester prices are low, because it is too easy to make them in mass. As a harvester producing architect I have suggestions that may make people mad, but would help stablize and maybe raise prices. (seperate wheat from chaff)

1) keep OMU's uncrated, or maybe 5packable.

Good idea....I dont know what the big deal is....I have been a master for 9 months its not that big of a deal

2) reduce crate size of Turbo Fluidic's, and heavy harvesting unitsto 5 packs.

I agree

3) Raise crate levels of Wall Modiles to 100, and SSSM/SSM's to 50/25pack

I also agree with this, needed badly.

4) FIX FACTORY BUGS! Erroring out has caused a lot of issues.

I think this has less to do with the issue at hand but not a bad toss in.

5) Keep input hopper at current size but raise output hopper to 200.

I would look at this a little differently. If we are only going to use 1 lot for our factory (like the rest) then leave it the way it is. If we are going to stay at 2 lots we should have a 200 input and 200 outpur hopper. A weaponsmith with a small naboo 1 lot home can effectivly store 900 in the input hoppers and 900 in the output hoppers. we get 4 factories 1/2 of the rest of the professions.

6) Raise schematic limit of ONLY CERTAIN SUBCOMPONETS to 3000 (only stucture modules, SSSM's, for us, and WS/AS/Tailor/BE/Medic sub componets. Not everything)

I wouldnt have a problem with this but i bet it is a programming 'blanket' item. Everyone gets 1000 max. So it would take a ton of work to do.

I

7) Make BER 14's 98% not 99% (meaning it would be possable for elite crafters, not just impossable for everyone)

i am not sure of your % numbers. I would question them. some races get plusses to experimentation (mine does not) skill tapes push others. Put us on a level playing field.

8) add a drop item attachment for harvester crafting allowing +1-4 BER, or +10-25k hopperto harvesters (limit to one per harvester, and harder mobs)

This i think is brilliant, and fits with the game. Just have a drop of mining units, rare and higher end. an extra plus that pushes you up one spot or two (higher than that is extreme i think)

9) add a harvester decay to existing farms. (this would revitalize the harvester market, and resource market) Say 1 BER per two weeks loss for being on (not just placed)

I would say this would solve two problems, harvester farms would be more difficult, or you could have a loss on hopper size so they have to check it more often

10) add chemical to OMU's and take one Metal location off, and add inert gas to harvesting mech, and turbo fluid's.

? i dont know why this would be done? no need to alter the recipies

11)make Heavy Moist's use wall modules, and medium minerals use wall modules. All of this to balance things out between harvester types.

? i dont know why this would be done? no need to alter the recipies

12) Drop one generator turbine from fusions and add a BER 6 Turbo Fluidic for the 'Cooling system' or something. Make this where if you use BER 7 Fluidic/OMU you get a BER 16 Fusion.

? i dont know why this would be done? no need to alter the recipies

13) a drop item/schem for a special all planet medium and large house

a new home....especially large... There are no homes that have a good floorplan. honestly what were they thinking with those monstrosities.

I can understand the merchant community not being happy that you can drop the prof, yet keep the benefits. I can understand the devs needing to lighten the load on the servers. But this is too extreme.
I'd like to see the merchant class made more useful. Vendor renting and consignment sales (implemented in such as way as to keep being robbed impossible) would go a long way toward that. I'm working an alt character on Shadowfire (working, not grinding) to master Artisan/master WS/ master Arch. With some rifle skills to make harvester runs safer (and add variety to playing the character), I have no room for Merchant. Well, time to toss that template. It may be what I want to play, but there's no point in having a single vendor with 4 bikes, a handful of guns, a couple houses, and 3 harvesters. Dropping Arch or WS to get Merchant means I won't need as many vendors (I'm on Rori, not a lot of biz traffic).
Raising the max sale price on the bazaar could make things slightly more livable, but the bazaar's for small-timers like me, not for established masters.

I'm already starting a purge with my main character. I'll never craft with him again. If these changes go thru as they've stated, I may wind up starting over with my alt as well. But really, how long can you stay happy with a purely combat character? And who am I going to be buying guns from?

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CPark wrote:
Sorry this is so long – but the item limits have a ripple effect that causes problems as well as solves them. The extra stress that will put on other game systems will degrade the player experience. It we don’t lay out the damage along with the good we can’t make telling argument for a comprehensive solution.

What are the objectives?

1) More interaction between crafters and merchants
2) More opportunity for low-level crafters
3) Decrease problems with empty/abandoned/illegal vendors
4) Decrease load on game databases

What solution is planned?

1) Remove empty vendors for the planet map
2) Delete vendors when players drop required skills
3) Limit the number of items on vendors

Problems made worse / created by the solutions

1) Existing storage problems (houses, factories, etc.) will become worse
2) Existing stocking problems (moving items to vendors, lack of ways to find vendors, no consignment system, etc.) will become worse
3) Existing play styles will have to change (more specialization, smaller businesses, inability to provide variety and stock as a selling point)
4) Shopping for goods will become more difficult (Fewer shops with fewer goods but no way to help people find what they need except to go and look)

Problems resolved by the solutions

1) Number of empty / abandoned / illegal vendors will go down
2) Load on database will decrease
3) Low level crafters will have somewhat greater opportunities because of scarcity of higher level goods

Changes that could help achieve the goals

1) Increase the limits per vendor for various levels of merchant – have the skill trees add not only number of vendors but amount per vendor as skill increases. Start with 150 items per vendor and cap at 500 items per vendor for master merchant. This allows merchants to handle multiple suppliers and a range of product selections.

2) Provide a consignment system on vendors – crafters can “offer” goods to a merchant at any merchant vendor location and merchants can then accept the offer or reject it – but payment is not made to the crafter until the sale is made. Crafter’s offer price is what they get paid. Merchant can set the sale price. Rejected offers must be picked up in 10 days. Offers are automatically rejected if the merchant doesn’t get to them in 10 days. Once an item is accepted the merchant can offer it at any location without transporting it if they have some skill level, otherwise they have to go get it and move it. This allows sellers a game-supported mechanism for selling through merchants and merchants a way to distribute goods to multiple locations.

3) Players can view merchant’s prices at all vendors from any vendor. On the planetary map, item counts by category can be seen but not details and prices. This makes it easier for players to find merchants to check out without creating a galaxy-wide exchange that would drive out small crafters.

4) Crates are in categories based on contents with counts showing. This allows players to see crated items by category making shopping for crates easier

5) Players can buy individual items from crates. This allows increased volumes in vendors without using more storage in the underlying system.

6) All items stack to 100 items. This allows increased volumes in vendors without using more storage in the underlying system.

7) Give master crafters one vendor with a 500-item limit while allowing B III artisans one 100-item vendor. This allows stand-alone masters and small artisans a way to sell goods at a single location.

8) Master crafters can consolidate like items in crates. This reduces storage requirements and allows for consolidation of products from several vendors.

9) Allow for multiple-selection in the vendor interface for things like “sell-item” so re-stocking becomes easier – specifically, putting items that have timed out back up at their original price and with the original attached note.

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Sevardos, thanks for the idea.

Suggestions like yours start the kind of discussion that could make this a really good set of suggestions for the development team. The list of changes I posted was just trying to put some flesh on the the point that if you limit vendor item counts you'd better make other changes to compensate. So it is only a start.

To your point, I was actually thinking merchants with these skills were on the verge of being too powerful. A master merchant would be the only character that could move goods from one location to another without carrying them. That could cut into smugglers if it didn't have limits (like not being able to move contraband items). But it would open up new options, like the "Galactic Package Express" idea that folks were kicking around.

Perhaps the "extra" could be the ability to tag items for sale only to particular individuals. That would allow merchants to leave items on vendors for customers to pick up at their own convenience.

All of that being said, we might be getting close to hijacking the thread. If we get any hint from the devs that these ideas can go anywhere perhaps we could pick it up in ernest.

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LukeBorgman wrote:

This finishes it for me. Architect has been fun, but now I've had enough. With the Vendor Nerf of Publish 10, I'll be surrendering Architect and closing my shop. I have a furniture vendor with about 500 items, a houses/factoriesvendor with a bit over 100, a harvester/artisan/loot vendor with about 200 items and a clearance items vendor with about 100 items. I have all globally advertised.

Iwanted to have a crafting character, but I found that since I don't pay for an alt. and aren't a Jedi, the only way I could have a reasonably successful shop and have fun was to surrender Merchant.I still feel that what I had to do to get them, the fact that I pay for them, and the fact that I can't move them was fair enough and not an "exploit". I don't intend to surrender anything to getMerchantback, and I believe that the Vendor Nerf will make it not worthwhile for me to keep my shop open. I don't want to sell through a Merchant. Crafting was already at maximum for me on the hassle-versus-reward scale.

After building an adequate stock of architect items for myself and friends, I'll stashmost of itin storage and give it to friends and delete the Clearance Items. Then, I think I'll switch to Armorsmith. I'll only be crafting for myself and friends and we always need armor. This patch will take almost all the player interaction out of crafting for me.

I think a lot less crafters will be selling things. Only those who pay for alts will be very successful. Way to go SOE! Cha-ching!

The Merchant profession seems like a ploy to get people to buy alts.

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