Architect Archive
Thread: Architects Poll what are you going to do when the Vendor fix is implemented?
Baccarat wrote:
Pawlin, you make it sound like there's something "wrong" with what I'm advocating. There's no right or wrong here. There are just opinions.The merchant class has been the way it is for months and months (a year?). It's a gimped class. There we agree. You say I'm "wrong" to want the benefits of a class after dropping the skills. The game is structured that way, and we'd probably agree that it's goofy. What I'm proposing (not preaching) is that the vendor aspect of merchant be left as is, and we add INCENTIVE for people to keep it. You may disagree with what I propose, but calling me "wrong" or worse "immoral" is unreasonable.
You clearly dislike the current system. I respect your opinion. If you can respect mine, then we have a dialogue.
Ever heard of "the spirit of the rules"
This game, unfortunatly, has some bugs init, certain things work differently from how they were intended to work. Some of these are hard to spot and as such will be done by lots of people, many however are quite obvious to anyone with an iota of intelligence.
If you are capable of seeing that doing these things are not within the spirit of the rules, or it is pointed out to you by someone who can see it, but still insist on doing them then you are exploiting the flaws for your own benefit and this is both 'wrong' and 'immoral' in my book.
Some examples of things that are possible but clearly not intended:
- Lot-Swapping - If they had intended for everyone to have up to 200 lots they would have given everyone 200 lots.
- Keeping vendors after dropping skills - No other profession has skills that remain once the skills that gave them are dropped
- Double Slicing weapons - If this was supposed to be possible then all sliced weapons would have a slice option on their radial menu
- Vehicles auto-repairing when stored after traveling - If this was supposed to be the way to repair vehicles why have garages?
And there are more, but I am not going to produce a list of unfixed exploits on the boards.
I have a conscience, I also think games work better when you play them to the "spirit of the rules", this makes them more fun for the majority who are then not disadvantaged by the exploiters unfair advantages.
lisasdarren wrote:
Some examples of things that are possible but clearly not intended:
- Lot-Swapping - If they had intended for everyone to have up to 200 lots they would have given everyone 200 lots.
- Keeping vendors after dropping skills - No other profession has skills that remain once the skills that gave them are dropped
- Double Slicing weapons - If this was supposed to be possible then all sliced weapons would have a slice option on their radial menu
- Vehicles auto-repairing when stored after traveling - If this was supposed to be the way to repair vehicles why have garages?
I also think games work better when you play them to the "spirit of the rules", this makes them more fun for the majority who are then not disadvantaged by the exploiters unfair advantages.
Agree 100%
I play a pure combat character and play 50% of a Crafter character with a friend. Of course ppl should not be able to have vendors after they lose the skill, it's a bug and one they haven't fixed yet to reduce FLAMING, unreasonable flaming at that. How can you even want to keep a vendor and not have the skill? It's very pratical and stores are certainly nice if you have 6 vendors instead of one. You want to have a nice store with 6 vendors all pretty then get Merchant, simple.. it's not so much of a gimped profession when everyone has had it with skill point investment and now keeps without it... They should fix it soon.
Furia you talk about ppl getting what they want, I think a game is better overall if the game gets what it needs instead of the ppl getting what they want...
One other thing I don't think this game is intended for multiple accounts, I tink it's intended for massive interaction between players.
Arianrhod
I am with Furia...and can't believe so few others are.
I will admit I mastered architect because of a holocron. instead of grinding statues, I built walls, b/c if i was going to put anytime into it, I was going to get something out of it. So now i have city halls, guild halls, and a slew of harvestors. And instead of a 1-3 day grind, I've been an architect for a month. This month has been spent...well as most of you know, making walls and searching for resources, and it's the latter that truly angers me. I bought every single resource except the water for my fountains. Tomorrow I complete the last of my harvestors and head back to combat. And now i want to recoop the 2M+ i have spent on resources and a little profit for my time.
So here is what i am going to do:
1. master artisan with the points i used for architect
2. get a bulk vendor to sell my excess structures/resources/tools to help recoop credits
3. deploy my harvestors and put resources on my vendor (i only need 1; not sure what I'd do with 3 or more)
4. give up artisan and keep this vendor as long as i can
5. fight like hell to kick vendors off the global map that have nothing on them - and yes that effects all of you merchants, b/c if you want to live by rules, you will die by them as well. i spent the last month looking at your crappy unstocked vendors.
6. fight like hell to increase the credit cap at the bazaar.
7. support any vendor lease/mall initiative
8. compliment SOE for making the most robust crafting side of a game I've ever seen.
So whatever the letter is - i forget by now - i think the whole thing sux.
khamafeu wrote:
Furia you talk about ppl getting what they want, I think a game is better overall if the game gets what it needs instead of the ppl getting what they want...
One other thing I don't think this game is intended for multiple accounts, I tink it's intended for massive interaction between players.
Lecivius wrote:
3/4/04/ Merchant, so no effect.
I will, however, be destroyed if they cap items as rumor suggests.
I think there are going to be a LOT of us 3/4/0/4 Merchants soon. Master Merchant got dropped when I figured out that I could grind Chef with those wasted points.
Fivo Asia
Baccarat wrote:
The problem is that you guys see a grey issue as completely black and white. If the devs call something an exploit and say they will punish people who do it, that's black and white. If they don't, and some group of moralistic players decide something violates their principles, and start calling it an exploit, that's a bit silly. Double sliced weapons are black and white, players do (and should in my opinion) get punished for double sliced weapons. The devs could punish people for static lot swaps, or vendors kept after dropping merchant. They don't. It's really easy to tell if someone has vendors they aren't "qualified" for.
...
Do you think it is right to have the benefits of a skill after you no longer have the skill?
Can you answer that question? Its just takes a simple "yes" or "no".
mottola2u wrote:
and BTW - what's keeping anyone with a factory, schematic, resources and components from making anything at anytime. that's what it think is analagous to me keeping a vendor.
These issues have been argued to death on the merchant forum. The difference between schematics and vendors is huge. I can give an LLC schematic to a master bounty hunter who owns a factory, and he can create objects from it even though he has never been a weaponsmith. Making the schematics it the skill learned, putting in a factory requires no skill points. In the case of a vendor, can you transfer a vendor to a master bounty hunter? No. The skill is having vendors.
Fact is that people want skills for nothing. At some point the devs decided that having multiple vendors was worthy of putting in a separate advanced profession. They're simply moving to that idea.
Baccarat wrote:
Pawlin, you make it sound like there's something "wrong" with what I'm advocating. There's no right or wrong here. There are just opinions.The merchant class has been the way it is for months and months (a year?). It's a gimped class. There we agree. You say I'm "wrong" to want the benefits of a class after dropping the skills. The game is structured that way, and we'd probably agree that it's goofy. What I'm proposing (not preaching) is that the vendor aspect of merchant be left as is, and we add INCENTIVE for people to keep it. You may disagree with what I propose, but calling me "wrong" or worse "immoral" is unreasonable.
You clearly dislike the current system. I respect your opinion. If you can respect mine, then we have a dialogue.
Do you think it is right to retain the benefits of a skill after you no longer have the skill?
And there are merchants with empty vendors too, so what is your point? Empty vendors are not the issue here, access to a viable and vibrant economy is. If you can't see the harm that restricting a free marketwould do then we will have to disagree. I think that most people can see the potential economic crash, but hey if you are a merchant with vendors on cnet row.....you will be the golden child. If you are a crafter, justcoming up in a player city, then you have arough road aheadof you.
Oh and do you think that a doctors should spend 24 points to sell theirbuff packs? Or a smuggler so he can selltheir muon gold?
As for your "chicken little" comment. 
Rurry wrote:
You folks crack me up on this. I agree with Furia, btw. I view the people who want this change (which would do great harm to the economy - those who can't see this are a lost cause)as attempting to make most of their fellow gamers suffer. The economy is based on a FREE MARKET model, and to be a viable economy then people need to have easy access to it. By restricting access, folks are trying to control the economy (robber barons). I don't have a problem with people making plays for power, but don't get upset when someone calls you on it.
LOL thats such a bogus argument. Free market doesn't mean free vendors. People pointing out that you shouldn't get vendors for free is an exploit doesn't mean we're evil robber barons. Nice way to defend an exploit by pointing a finger of accuasation at anyone but the exploiters.
Do you really believe that the devs intended that Doctors, Combat medics, Smugglers, Rangers, etc spend 24 POINTS for a box vendor???
YES. Just like they expect us to spend at least 15 points in order to be able to survey for mineral resources. Benefits from skills are paid for by expenditure of skill points.
The merchant class has been broken since launch, and IMO should be eliminated.
Thats an altogether different argument. If thats your opinion then ok.
They should eliminate the ability for a non-crafter to use a schematic, as that is a bigger exploit in my opinion. How many of you have dropped master artisan, then bought a schematic of MSS for your stations???
Bad analogy. Key word in that sentence is "bought". The artisan doesn't have to sell it and there is a value in the trade of schematics. And schematics have a limited lifetime as well. Not a good analogy.
As to be able to use a skill/ability without the required profession, you have heard of skill tapes right? By your definition, using a skill tape without the profession is an exploit. That's just BS.
Worse analogy. A skill tape is an item with value that you own. Its property. Skill tapes only benefit skills that you already have. A structure experimentation skill tape won't let someone make architect items unless they have architect skills.
interesting points on all sides. Still with Furia though accepting of the schematic analogy. and to clarify - skilltapes do effect skills you don't poses - if you don't believe me watch me climb a mountain w&w/o my terrain negotiation attachments - therefore your rebuttal is no good.
at the heart of Furia's point is that we all want a better system and a better way to sell our wares. eliminating use of vendors only benefits the few and does not solve the problem. my guess is that it's the devs response to eliminating empty vendors on the global map. we all hate it. and as I'm sure many of you are technologists you are undoubtedly familiar with- the easiest solution that gets you 80% there often is the one you go with....and then there is the storage issue. But it does not solve the underlyingproblem.
why is this being talked about here - b/c we have some of the higher ticket wares around and need a way to sell them. poor trade forums, lack of trust, bazaar caps all lead to it. to be a true merchant means you are a wholesaler but there is no facilty to do so, other than buying others "underpriced items".
Fixing that or creating that (being a wholesale method and/or consignment) is a win-win on so many levels and is where we should join forces together rather than separately callfor nerfs.