Architect Archive
Thread: Honest Opinion on that craft system..
The old (and current) system is impacted by resource quality. if you use a 550/1000 stat resource, you max at 55%
Each experiment points gives you roughly 7%, so you can reach 55% and still improve other areas.
The new system has the same maximum, the difference is that you need 10 points to reach 55%.
I think our current and old system is far more rewarding of a master: it means they can do more by 'averaging' out multiple areas and maybe experiment poorer resource to 30%/40%/55% rather than 2%/3%/55% under the new system.
Nobody has mentioned the impact of what seems to be gated resources. For instance, a requirement for high OQ Plumbum iron, that has never spawned on any server with >200OQ. The impact of this resource under the new system drops the whole product into the gutter. Under the old system, it just means the part that relied on OQ could be pulled up a little and experimentation go into other areas.
(it might not be plumbum iron, but there are certainly a few examples quoted)
If the complaint is to introduce "variety" in items, well that might be because there arent enough items or distinguishing options in them. The whole system rewards certain areas of experimentation. As someone said: if i could have a high damage/low speed rifle that works at 20m, or a medium damage/high speed rifle that works at 64m.. we'd break the cookie cutter moulds. The fact that there are only 2 or 3 important stats in most professions & items its what drives the current product demands.
(With regard to resources and competition, I did medic before architect. It's my experience that a new crafter cant compete with an established master. Their products are inferior and due to an economy where "I WANT IT NOW" is prevalent and people pay 12mil for a +10 experimentation tape as an OPENING bid ... they are only going to bother paying for the best. I could compete with Master Architects a few hours after I got Novice. This would be due to a massive stockpile of resources from mining, and having 650k of Ore + gemstones to hand. If I didnt have the right resources from a month's worth of collecting I'd be a month playing catchup )
Sadly my server has a spawn now of 979 UT Duraalloy steel....
So i change my mind and i want the the carfting system back....at least for an hour so i can make some 14 BER schemartics
Dvnce wrote:I am sorry but If you had the resources with important stats above 950.. no matter the craft this new system had better results.. I know of composite that had 72-74% base effectiveness.. to my knowledge that is way better than anything that has been crafted ... I know of weapons that were .2 seconds faster and 10% more damage... The problem was that most servers did not have a supply of resources that had these attributes so as a result results droped.. (is that a bad thing.. Not necessarily .. only problem is that you go on knowing that their used to be better...)
Many of us have discussed this very issue.... about variety .. I am sure that most of us avid Gamers.. can aggree that out of all the crafting systems in each game there is none really as complex as what we have here.. the let down is that the finished goods are a let down when u work through the complexity and still get the same result as every other person using different resources..
So .. then the question is .. if not this then what ?
I love that first part where you say 72-74% base effectiveness, you forget to mention the part where you could get a suit HAM sliced and still need buffs to wear it. Let's put things in context ok?
Padre
Kdr_Kane wrote:Answering the questions you posed.I liked the new system better than the old.I don't need a longer test period.I have no idea why they rescinded it. It's quite unclear to me what the whining is about. Of course, I'm a master,soI should be able to make 100% harvesters. I had skill tapes available, but they only increased my hopper size on the final schematics. They did not affect my BER rating.I knew this was coming and planned for it appropriately. I had a mad scramble on Tuesday because I found out it was only going to last one day. That's the only thing I didn't expect.+2 experimentation (+20 skill tapes)doesn't do a whole lot for you. So, the people that complain about this without having used them are barking up the wrong tree.
Why did they recind it? Because it sucks for several other professions, just not architects.
Padre
the_redeye_jedi wrote:
They're going to fix this right?
They aren't really going to let a select few Architects run around with uber harvs no one will ever be able to make again are they?
Why should some other Architect be able to mine more with his ten lots simply because he was able to log in on a particular Tuesday night? He now has a permanent leg up. These things will never decay. He spends the same moneya normal guy does but gets more materials. How is this right?
This is not intended to be a flame, but this is the whole point of competition Redeye, to take advantage of an opportunity. Be it a new high UT steel that shifts in or getting some really good crafting stations to make good harvestors to get more of that high UT steel. If everyone was all equal they why would anyone have any loyalty to me or my shop? To make all archs equal tells the guy that spent all the time to understand and master the craft that he wasted his time cause some new guy who just joined the game last week is just as good as him.
But that is equality, all archs are not equal and nor should they be. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be some fairness. Resources shifting helps to give all archs a chance at the next good resource, and there should be more factors that help keep a fair playing field while still allowing those who are true masters.
G
Kerico wrote:
Anything that allows increased BER is a bad thing
honestly i agree with this...
i really think the BIGGEST mistake (well one of them) ever made in this game was raising the BERs....it has caused the rapid advancemnet of charcaters and glut of resources and and products...
THIS US DIRECTED AT DUNCE - VERY IMPORTANT
It keep coming up about variety. Others have brought up BERs and harvestor levels.
What i mean is player A makes a 92% harvestor @ BER 13 and player B makes a 97% harvestor @ BER 13. why are they equal. They may not be but there is no data to support it and the increase might be only 50 units of ore a day anyway..
regardless, out ratings should go to decimals... 13.26, 13.57, 13.89, 13.01 etc...
Dvnce wrote:
Pretty much their is no varaity .. IN any craft.. each item has one bar that everyone focuses on....
To break the monopolies you must create variety .. so the small guys can create a different.. but equally valuable product
But there is a problem with that.. take weapons.. there are two major componants.. speed and damage... problem.. both are tied into same exp bar.. so no way to have variety ...the let down is that the finished goods are a let down when u work through the complexity and still get the same result as every other person using different resources.
So .. then the question is .. if not this then what ?
I think maybe you answered your own question here Dvnce
So CREATE the variety, give more lines to experiment on so that the crafter (or his customer) can CHOOSE what to concentrate on, for weapons, does he want more speed, does he want more damage, does he want more range, does he want a mix, in what proportion? There has to be a way of differentiating between crafted items that is meaningful, read my post above and see my suggestion regarding hopper size on harvesters for example. I am not sure what you mean by 'the small guy', as long as you mean the Master without the large operation backing him up then fine, no reason this system could not work just as well for him, if you mean the 1/4/0/3 guy, then sorry, but there is NO WAY that he should be capable of competing with a Master, otherwise what is the point of becoming Master at all ? BUT, in order to achieve a variety it should not be possible for anybody to max out on every line, no matter how good they are, the clue is in finding out what is important to the USERS of the crafted items and balancing this in the experimentation lines.
The example here would be a rifle, any rifle. What is most important? Damage maybe? Then make the damage increase per exp point LOW, Range is lowest maybe? Then make the increase per point HIGH. If this balance can be got right then people can choose what they want to buy, the fastest gun sacrifices MEANINGFULLY on range, The most damaging is also the slowest, you get the idea I am sure.
Message Edited by Bandola on 03-19-2004 12:08 AM
Dvnce wrote:
Well.. as for those that search for a purpose to the change... And this is my personal observation.... I think the goal is to remove "cookie cutter" crafting.. Pretty much their is no varaity .. IN any craft.. each item has one bar that everyone focuses on.. thus creating a monopoly for those that have the best resources.. To break the monopolies you must create variety .. so the small guys can create a different.. but equally valuable product.. That I believe was the goal..
So .. then the question is .. if not this then what ?
The cookie cutter crafting comes form 1 stat being the most important. Other stats are either not present or simply not important enough for people to care about. How many people have asked for a BER 9 harvester with 200k storage? Some thing simply only have one stat to exp on. The new crafting system only amplified this effect, not neutralize it.
The problem is getting other stats to be important or increasing their range. An example is harvesters. The base storage is often enough. Experimenting in storage does a very little. If the range on a heavy was 40k to 200k, then people will take notice of it. They will still want BER13, but if most BER13s had a storage of 60k, a BER 12 with storage of 120k that can be left for a week would be attractive. It is too late for this however, as the servers are near deed saturated as is.
Another example is chef, we have 4 stats to work on and 4 additives to increase those stats. However that is still blown. Exp in filling or quantity does very little, so you basically get what you get on the combine and worry about exp in effect and duration. Then the cheapest, easiest to makeand theadditive with the biggest punch is the one for effect and effect is most desired by the end user. Again this is messed up making all other additives not useful due to cost and not desirable due to end effect.
That is the problem, make other attibutes have a great range and make people want to exp in them.