Architect Archive
Thread: Fragment from the Galaxy Search Thread in In Development
Puertoriqueno wrote:I fail to find the humor. In that particular batch I sold 40 harvesters. The parts and resources cost me nothing. It was pure profit. How does that equate to wanting you to do the same? How could I list a pack of 40 harvesters on the bazaar? I guess I can see the comedy in it......
Hampster2 wrote:Ok, out of fairness, that was an unfair assumption. As an example, I charge 4000 for small houses, 250 for base furniture, 1000 for fancy furniture, 1500 for elegant furniture, 10000 for BER 13 harvesters....etc, etc, etc. I usually make deals to get the resources and supplies I need....I work alot of deals to keep my costs low. I'm a broker, and I like to sell in bulk. I get hate mails for my prices all the time.
LMAO - there is 27k of resources in a heavy mineral harvestor and someone wants to sell this for less than it costs to mine grind resources???? LOL
Cheers,
radiant.Arba
Egida it's disingenuous of you to say other people are getting emotional about this issue as if getting emotional was wrong, since you have gotten quite emotional about this even to the point of speaking for your wife, who basically told you that she can deal with things herself. So emotionalism on your opponents' part is bad, but that your's are acceptable?
Puertoriqueno wrote:
I fail to find the humor. In that particular batch I sold 40 harvesters. The parts and resources cost me nothing. It was pure profit. How does that equate to wanting you to do the same? How could I list a pack of 40 harvesters on the bazaar? I guess I can see the comedy in it......
And that is exactly what's wrong with a vendor system that places price as the ONLY criteria for purchase. Your parts and your resources cost nothing. Mine do not. In short, as the plan was concieved, a few guild-supported crafters could undercut all others in the galaxy, then raise their prices to monopolistic levels. If enough people get into the marketto compete again, boom, they're undercut right back out out of the market again.
I find your attitude funny in a sick way... it boils down to: "You won this round, so do it my way." Heh. As if.
The problem is empty vendors. The problem is merchants who set up shops and get listed on the planetary map, but the auto-delist feature either doesn't work, or it works poorly. And there's no way to tell if THE item you want is on a vendor or if it's just got 9 crappy items left on it. And the catagories are so terribly done that finding what you are looking foron a vendor that has it is an experience.If you're looking for a particular resource to go with a schematic, good luck. If you're looking for a specific CA or AA on a vendor with 100 or so, call your doctor and set the appointment for carpal tunnel surgery.
The problem is NOT a lack of galaxy-wide listings, the problem (which their solution woudln't fix) is the crappy vendor interface, and its interaction with other game systems. You want a "compromise"? Fine, here's mine:
1. Fix the catagorizations for merchandise. Eliminate the "Factory Crates" catagory (make it a sub under each area).
2. Fix the catagorizations for vendor registration & barking, based on actual player practice. There are certain types that appear over and over again: Loot, Clothing, BE Clothing, Jewelry, Houses, Harvesters, Furniture, Meds, etc. EDIT: and fix the sequencing... when you click for sort, there needs to be an option to sort EVERYTHING under the current catagory, not just the current display of 1-100 items.
3. Vendors must maintain a certain minimum number of items (not just >0) to remain listed on the planetary map. The server checks vendors about once per four hours and delists any vendor not qualifying.
4. If a building containing vendors drops to 0 items for sale (total, among all vendors) not only do all vendors de-list, the building is declared private, and the sign option switches to "Closed." (note: suggestion needs work due to storage vendors and "absentee/common" structure owners).
5a. Galaxy-wide listing, Version 1: Merchant must be Master or a box 4 skill required. No prices are listed. All you know is that the vendor has what you are looking for.
5b. Galaxy-wide listing, Version 2: Merchant must be Master or a box 4 skill required. Prices are listed. However if you buy an item from "out of region" there is 15 minute delay for delivery, and price is increased by 50% (minimum 2k). If you buy from off planet, price is increased by 100% & delivery is 30 min. for "one link" away, 200% and 45 min. for "two links" away. Minimums apply. Delivery cannot occur unless you are in a city or structure. (I can't get a pizza delivered in this city as fast as someone can get a harvester delivered across the galaxy? Come on.)
5c. Galaxy-wide listing, Version 3: No such thing, but planetary listings/purchases do work as above.
Not directly related, but I'd like to see:
6a.Owners of a hospital automatically get a single standardized vendor droid to sell medical packs from. Limited to 100 items unless the owner has Merchant also. (not cumulative)
6b. Owners of a cantinaor theatreautomatically get a single standardized vendor droid to sell food and drink from. Limited to 100 items unless the owner has Merchant also. (not cumulative)
6c. Merchant/Politician interaction: placing vendors inside a city hall gives an additional20% break on vendor maintenance. Only residents can place a vendor in the hall.
6d. Dont' remember if Artisans have to own the Garages, but if so, allow a vendor there to sell vehicles & customization kits. Ship customizations sold at shuttleports?
(the intent of the above is to give additional perks for tying up lots in a city structure, as well as signal to players that it's likely they can find needed supplies at certain structures.)
Message Edited by Crimsonsplat on 02-16-2005 11:53 AM
I have a few question for you... Do you Enjoy being an architect?
Yes
Does playing that role and providing architectual goods for the consumer satisfy you in your game play?
Yes
Should you not have the right to Price ANY way that you want to?
Yes. I never stated that a person should be forced to charge anything. They can charge what they want. An open price listing however would make it difficult to sell to those that are looking for a bargain instead of a relationship, thereby removing "gouging".
Why should I not be given the same respect? I am sure that I personally am at the OTHER end of the spectrum as you when it comes to prices.. My costomers KNOW that there are other people that charge significantly less than I do but for some reason they buy from me... Do I threaten to take away their Birthday if they dont buy from me? People buy things based on Value and that is not something that we the suppliers cant ever define for the customers sure we can do our part in trying to SHOW value... but in the end it is 100% up to the buyer what value they take from the item in question. Just as you have every RIGHT to sell for what ever price you want to should I not be given the same respect after all we do spend the same amount of money to play..?
You do, and a price list does not remove this. You pointed out that your customers buy from you despite your higher prices. Like me, you have a loyal customer base. Listing prices, therefore, should not impact your business.
Puertoriqueno wrote:
I have a few question for you... Do you Enjoy being an architect?
Yes
Does playing that role and providing architectual goods for the consumer satisfy you in your game play?
Yes
Should you not have the right to Price ANY way that you want to?
Yes. I never stated that a person should be forced to charge anything. They can charge what they want. An open price listing however would make it difficult to sell to those that are looking for a bargain instead of a relationship, thereby removing "gouging".
Why should I not be given the same respect? I am sure that I personally am at the OTHER end of the spectrum as you when it comes to prices.. My costomers KNOW that there are other people that charge significantly less than I do but for some reason they buy from me... Do I threaten to take away their Birthday if they dont buy from me? People buy things based on Value and that is not something that we the suppliers cant ever define for the customers sure we can do our part in trying to SHOW value... but in the end it is 100% up to the buyer what value they take from the item in question. Just as you have every RIGHT to sell for what ever price you want to should I not be given the same respect after all we do spend the same amount of money to play..?
You do, and a price list does not remove this. You pointed out that your customers buy from you despite your higher prices. Like me, you have a loyal customer base. Listing prices, therefore, should not impact your business.
Well.. The main reason why people pay more for my goods is because its either shop all day for the "bargain" or come and pay more for not having to waste their time.. that is my biggest advantage and that is what global price listing will do away with.
As far as gouging.. I am sorry but there Is none of that In our Profession AT all.. When you can recoup your investment In less than 1 average Spawn of resource I am sorry but we are not charging enough...
Where the True Gouging is coming from are from the Loot Sellers.. the ones that think a +2 exp tape is worth 2 mil but yet want to pay 2 cpu for the product that enhances.. but that is a whole other argument..
Puertoriqueno wrote:I fail to find the humor. In that particular batch I sold 40 harvesters. The parts and resources cost me nothing. It was pure profit. How does that equate to wanting you to do the same? How could I list a pack of 40 harvesters on the bazaar? I guess I can see the comedy in it......
Hampster2 wrote:Ok, out of fairness, that was an unfair assumption. As an example, I charge 4000 for small houses, 250 for base furniture, 1000 for fancy furniture, 1500 for elegant furniture, 10000 for BER 13 harvesters....etc, etc, etc. I usually make deals to get the resources and supplies I need....I work alot of deals to keep my costs low. I'm a broker, and I like to sell in bulk. I get hate mails for my prices all the time.
LMAO - there is 27k of resources in a heavy mineral harvestor and someone wants to sell this for less than it costs to mine grind resources???? LOL
Cheers,
radiant.Arba
Well you characterized your galaxy search opponents as bullies. Kept referring to people who charged more than you "overchargers, thieves, gougers", yeah I guess I understand your befuddlement in how people seem to think you wanted others to charge the same as you.
Puertoriqueno wrote:Fair enough. I would like to point out two things.One, n00bs buy base houses. They buy them from the bazaar. RARELY have I ever seen a n00b buy a house from a shop. Most dont even understand the concept. Now, that said, those that sell houses for 2000 credits on the bazaar all the way up to the max at 6000 do not seemingly impact my business at all. Yet they are selling on the bazaar all the time. Just one small example of how, at least in my view, global searching would not impact us as much as some believe. We all have loyal customer bases.Second, we can make the choice not to use the Global system. I am sure there will be quite a few merchants in fact that will refuse to do so. The global system will not show all the items available....it will only show the items for those people that wish to use the service. My guess is that most of the items listed will be low cost, with the intent to sell in bulk to new players.Just a few points I wanted to add.
Well as for newbies buying houses, my experience is that a newbie will these these days get assisted by a guild or a player city rather than buying one themselves. That's my opinion of course.
As for the second statement, positioning is one economic strategy that not everyone can choose to do. Linking your vendor to the bazaar is a strategy you can do from any location. One of the previous hindrances to the bazaar was the price cap. If there were no price cap, I bet the bazaar would be more utilized - and more difficult to navigate with the greater amount of goods in it. Linking your vendor to the bazaar would be an easy economic choice that really posed more economic gain from linking than not linking per vendor. It's great on an individual level, but if everyone does it, that's where the issues start coming.
Puertoriqueno wrote:
Fair enough. I would like to point out two things.
One, n00bs buy base houses. They buy them from the bazaar. RARELY have I ever seen a n00b buy a house from a shop. Most dont even understand the concept. Now, that said, those that sell houses for 2000 credits on the bazaar all the way up to the max at 6000 do not seemingly impact my business at all. Yet they are selling on the bazaar all the time. Just one small example of how, at least in my view, global searching would not impact us as much as some believe. We all have loyal customer bases.
Puertoriqueno wrote:
Fair enough. I would like to point out two things.
One, n00bs buy base houses. They buy them from the bazaar. RARELY have I ever seen a n00b buy a house from a shop. Most dont even understand the concept. Now, that said, those that sell houses for 2000 credits on the bazaar all the way up to the max at 6000 do not seemingly impact my business at all. Yet they are selling on the bazaar all the time. Just one small example of how, at least in my view, global searching would not impact us as much as some believe. We all have loyal customer bases.
I see yoru point here : people can currently buy stuff cheaper but come to us instead.
IN the current systempeople become our loyal customers for one or more of3 things : convenience, reliability and price. If they can come to our shop or send us a tell / email and get what they want reliably then that wins a lot of points towards securing repeat business. If the shop is close by and always stocked then thats very convenient. Price is also a factor, if someone is the cheapest in the galaxy then you can't beat people of with a stick. But if they made it so the galaxy search method was the most convenient, reliable by default and always showed the cheapest in the entire galaxy then it would trump those traits that we've built up already in our individual businesses.
If your customer could pull up a search menu from about anywhere in the galaxy and within a few minutes find the cheapest / best item for sale then why would they want to travel out to a single vendor and only look at a limited selection at uncompetitive prices? Loyalty only goes so far.
Second, we can make the choice not to use the Global system. I am sure there will be quite a few merchants in fact that will refuse to do so. The global system will not show all the items available....it will only show the items for those people that wish to use the service. My guess is that most of the items listed will be low cost, with the intent to sell in bulk to new players.
If implemented a global search system will become the only system that people use since it is just too convenient. Yes, any of us can quit the system. But we could do that now if we wanted. I could try and sell deeds out of the back of my speeder down by the river bank on Talus if I wanted for all the good it would do me.
I expect virtually all active vendors would be on the global search system if it were implemented. As a vendor you'd have little reason to not be on it. If you have a higher priced vendor then keeping it off the global system would make it both expensive and inconvenient. If you have a cheaper vendor then you'd have no reason not to compete directly with others in the new system. People with higher prices would be forced to change over to a business model where they compete on price. Everyone would then be competing on price. And we get back to the end result of a price war.