Architect Archive
Thread: Concern for rumoured nerf
ravingbantha
Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:56 am
#14
Hear is how I see cross server lot trades, now keep in mind I have done many lot swaps myslef.
People don't get into crafting because alot of those people don't like to spend hours and hours crafting. Regardless of the lot swap situation they may find gathering all the specific resources out there a pain. Take this example.... Abuddie of mine was a 12 pt armorsmith, and a darn good one. He quit being an armorsmith because he was tired of having to wait months and months for a specific resource to spawn and then hope and prey that it's worth a crap.... not only that but he was tired of having to hire hunters to go harvest specifi hide and such... He quite armorsmith becasue it was no longer fun for him, same problem as alot of crafters tht quite crafting....
AS far as lot swaps go... we all have the same oppertunities to succeed as each other. As far as this game goes, we are all created equal. I built what I have off the help of some friends, which we all have and alot of hard work. I didn't want to buy abunch of houses and harvesters, so instead I mastered architect and made my own. Over time and sales I made enough money to get more and more resources. As time went on I was able to make more harvesters from the resources I gathered. Once upon a time I surveyed for good spawns, after awhile I started lot swapping and now use static fields.
I do agree that something needs to be done with lot swapping, however the problem is 2 fold.
1) If lot swaps are done away with resource prices will skyrocket. Not just ore but everything. One of the main things that keeps great resource's form being outragous is that fact that so much of it get's harvested. What we will see is minerals, chemicals, and flora prices shoot up to match hide and meat costs. There's some awsome PolySteel copper that spawned on my server... best ever and used in LIghtsabers as well.... Now if it had not been for so many harvesters out there it would probably be upwards of 30-50cpu, but it's not. It's 5-10cpu tops.
2) If lot swapping is done away with, we will have a flood of used structures hit the market and that will cpmpletly kill the profession. Think of all those swapped buildings being redeeded and the owners trying to sell them off because they can no longer use them. Then you have all these items needing storage space to be placed in. So inturn we will see people selling off their furniture to make space for storage items, so now sales on furniture drop off and excess furniture hitting the bazzar as people try to make a little money off that as well.
In the end Lot swapping does serve an unfortunate purpose... it keeps prices down. I do it as a necessary evil. Ore is too scarce, and the prices of it would run me out of architecture. Resource sellers already charge 5 cpu for ore, which is what I was forced to raise my prices too... I really liek being an architect, but Iwould probably do alot better as a resource seller instead of an architect, but I don't want to go there. If lot swaps are done away with, I know architect will become a dead buisness.... but I hope I am wrong. I would love to see an all-around great resolution to this. It would save me hours of dealing with my harvesters, but untill there's away for me to gather resources and still make a profit off what I do then I will have to continue doing lot swaps. Come up with a resolution that get's rid of lot swpas but keeps resource prices down and I'm there backing you up. But prices are high enough as it is and will only go higher. Combine that with the loss of solo grous and you'r really going to have an interesting situation, I hope it does not kill the economy all together.
BillyBobthe50th
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:09 am
#15
outside of helios, tatooine on my server, there is a field of 100 heavy mineral harvesters. and about 20 wind harvs. All owned by the same person who did a LOT of lot trading.
GogoDodo
Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:52 am
#16
Actually i'd bet money the way sipwright was done was designed to strike at the vast stockpiles of resources. What other profession takes several millions units of resources just to master. Not to mention the resource cost of master level ships, of which you'll see more of as the expansion starts to peak.
I use cross server lot swaps, its a pain to visit all those harvestors and feed them all, but it does allow me to offer stuff at good prices. The only real way to deal with it is to solve a problem we've been hashing over since day one, decay. Make a harvestor suffer 1% damage per day, and the can only be repaired using a Structure repair tool (made by archs and applicable only by admin). And like weapon and armor repair tools you have the risk of reducing overall stats, destroying the item, etc. So if you buy it new and place it, you've got 100 days till it decays on its own, with the repair kit and luck it'll last alot longer. Sound too expensive? how bout repairing a full suit of composite or a kryat pistol.
Now this decay could happen to all structures, except houses. But it would create a reoccuring market, allowing for new archs to become successful, gives limited lifetimes to harvestors countering cross server swaps to some extent, and creates another money/resource hole to get them out of the game.
Someone said it earlier, but if this rumor is true and they implement this i see all prices going up x10.
G
Cafa
Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:08 am
#17
JeCy wrote:
I agree in a way but disagree as well.
Its not true you cant compete with people. My freinds and i just moved to a new server. 3 of us and possibly a forth we all have crafters. tailors, architect, musican, WS, even novice DE and Armorer. We are just getting rolling but when i tell you this be sure its a fact, we are competing even after just 2 weeks. Sure we are all vets but a blanket statement people cant compete with the big boys is just fiction.
Je'Cy
Quite frankly, the people on Tempest that tell me they can't compete are the same people that think apprenticeship means I give them free stuff all day long.
Anyone can "compete" in this game. It takes effort, not whining.
Fivo Asia
Mkappus
Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:07 am
#18
I think cross server lot swaps need to go. However, this is a social game and a cooperative game. If my PA gives me admin to the 20 harvestors the PA has, I see no problem with that.
The problem is, how do you eliminate cross server swaps without affecting valid on server rentals, pa cooperation etc....
The only solution I can think of would be incredibly complex. Such as, for any lots on a server where a person doesn't spend at least 10% of their on-line time, the lots would be deactivated or destroyed. This would prevent folks from logging on once a week for 5 minutes or something. You would need to spend at least 10% of your account time on-line to earn the lots on that server.
I have a feeling with the combat revamp they are going to stick in a ton of stuff to "balance" the game. Not giving shipwrights factories was the first look at their future vision.
ravingbantha
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:32 pm
#19
Mkappus wrote:
I think cross server lot swaps need to go. However, this is a social game and a cooperative game. If my PA gives me admin to the 20 harvestors the PA has, I see no problem with that.
The problem is, how do you eliminate cross server swaps without affecting valid on server rentals, pa cooperation etc....
The only solution I can think of would be incredibly complex. Such as, for any lots on a server where a person doesn't spend at least 10% of their on-line time, the lots would be deactivated or destroyed. This would prevent folks from logging on once a week for 5 minutes or something. You would need to spend at least 10% of your account time on-line to earn the lots on that server.
I have a feeling with the combat revamp they are going to stick in a ton of stuff to "balance" the game. Not giving shipwrights factories was the first look at their future vision.
Still won't work, too well.... all I gotta do is dualLog inmy toons while I'm at work set them on a wave macro in a house and I've earned that time. I could do 2 characters at night when I go to bed and 2 toons in the morning when I go to work. That's 4 a day... 28 a week... easily handled.
Pawlin
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:56 pm
#20
ravingbantha wrote:
Mkappus wrote:
I think cross server lot swaps need to go. However, this is a social game and a cooperative game. If my PA gives me admin to the 20 harvestors the PA has, I see no problem with that.
The problem is, how do you eliminate cross server swaps without affecting valid on server rentals, pa cooperation etc....
The only solution I can think of would be incredibly complex. Such as, for any lots on a server where a person doesn't spend at least 10% of their on-line time, the lots would be deactivated or destroyed. This would prevent folks from logging on once a week for 5 minutes or something. You would need to spend at least 10% of your account time on-line to earn the lots on that server.
I have a feeling with the combat revamp they are going to stick in a ton of stuff to "balance" the game. Not giving shipwrights factories was the first look at their future vision.
Still won't work, too well.... all I gotta do is dualLog inmy toons while I'm at work set them on a wave macro in a house and I've earned that time. I could do 2 characters at night when I go to bed and 2 toons in the morning when I go to work. That's 4 a day... 28 a week... easily handled.
I've got characters on a few servers. I spend probably 80-90% of my time on Kettemoor. I'm sure I spend less than 10% of my time on my Ahazi and Sunrunner characters and I do mining withboth of them. But I do actively play those other characters. So that kind of solution wouldn't work for people like me who are legitimately playing characters on multiple servers.
Teppoz
Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:29 am
#21
1 character per account - 'nuff said 
Nah, it is a really tricky thing.. I'm not doing cross server swaps, although I use my guild mates houses for storage.
But I'm not sure if I'm even to talk about this because I didn't take Architect to make money.. fast atleast..
If I wanted that, I would have gone AS or WS.But still it is a problem for all crafters IMO. You can compete, but that requires you to either do lot swapping by yourself or lower your prices too much.
I think it should be prevented somehow, but isn't this what we are talking about, how to do it. I can't see really an easy way to do it without doing some damage to some people. Then again the server swapping is an open option for anyone, is it not? I personally won't do that, since I'm too lazy to run around with every resource shift with even my own harvesters, when you talk about over 50 or so... nor do I really have time.
But I can see how this can affect it that the people who do can use a lot of more resources for cheaper... so either they sell for lower price than I.
Tricky thing.. tricky thing..
ravingbantha
Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:18 am
#22
Well it all boils down to concern for the new guys not being able to compete the the big guys. Simple fact is.... no matter how new oyu are you can always catch up with the big guy and possibly even surpass him. With all the loot out there that fetches a huge price the new players have more oppertunities now then I had when I started in Jan to make fast money. If nothing else the noobie quests give them more starting cash and a little better understnading of their class.... plus a limited use speederbike, which I couldn't afford one for almost 2 months.
I am putting together a post in my spare time about the best way to get your own empire built, but I'm trying to figure out the best forum to post it in, and even then it won't do alot of newbies alot of good, because most people that play this game never even know about the forums.
Dvnce
Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:47 am
#23
Ok.. I am going to give my opinion on this discussion..
First Lot trades were never intended. ( using them so that you can offer a good price ) well.. before the market began to be flooded with resources the higher prices were good prices. ..
The whole intention of giving admin was for the sole purpose of allowing people to work together in setting up a base of operations for a business. However the Vision was that all parties would continue to take an ACTIVE part in the operation NOT drop and Run and never to see the structure again.
We were never intended to be able to MASS PRODUCE in the fashion that we are able to do now. Sure this is all stuff that we have grown accustomed to but it was never ment to be that ONE person would be able to produce 1000's of items a week to sell.
As far as the rumors.. Sure things need to be balanced but so far these are still just rumors.. 
ravingbantha
Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:10 pm
#24
Dvnce wrote:
Ok.. I am going to give my opinion on this discussion..
First Lot trades were never intended. ( using them so that you can offer a good price ) well.. before the market began to be flooded with resources the higher prices were good prices. ..
The whole intention of giving admin was for the sole purpose of allowing people to work together in setting up a base of operations for a business. However the Vision was that all parties would continue to take an ACTIVE part in the operation NOT drop and Run and never to see the structure again.
We were never intended to be able to MASS PRODUCE in the fashion that we are able to do now. Sure this is all stuff that we have grown accustomed to but it was never ment to be that ONE person would be able to produce 1000's of items a week to sell.
As far as the rumors.. Sure things need to be balanced but so far these are still just rumors..
I my fiabnce's makes a few thousand item's a week to put in clothing to sell... she's a pretty sucessfull tailor and stay's sold out of BE clothing. Between making runs of synthetic cloth, BE tissue's, metal fasteners, Reinforced and regular fiberplast panels, and the actual clothes she probaly burns through 2-3 factory runs worth of stuff. She does not use any lots but her own, and will most times she'll buy her resources. The thing is, the need or desire for items increases as the game goes, the population increases and so crafters must make more and more items to accomidate that need. Whether or not it was intended, that the way the game goes. Medics burn though stims... doc's though buff pack... fighter's through weapons and armor... everyone burns through food... and when we're (architect's)lucky people burn through structures....
Elyssa
Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:54 pm
#25
Keep in mind that schematics were only meant to be able to make 100 items.
It was a bug that let you make 1000 items and the developers simply chose to adapt that and make it official rather than fix it.
I've often wondered how things would have turned out if they had fixed it instead.
Pawlin
Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:04 pm
#26
Elyssa wrote:
...I've often wondered how things would have turned out if they had fixed it instead.
I doubt it would have made a big difference. People would have just adapted their production processes to handle it. In fact for the most part I think whatever SOE does, some people will find the optimal way to maximize production. SOE should accept that and plan for it.