Architect Archive
Thread: Stockpiling Mitigation: Bad Idea #21352253
bluejanus wrote:
Cafa wrote:
bunk72 wrote:
Can I ask why people are so concerned about resource hoarding?
Because there's no damn content in the game for Architects, so it's easier to blame us for playing the game under the rules presented instead of making content.
Fivo Asia
I don't personally have any issue against hoarding. But hypothetically, let's say hoarding is a game problem. What do you think the merits or shortcomings of this idea is in relation to the game. We can rant about hoarding in another thread.
There are no merits to it, IMO. Hoarding is a non-issue that can be statistically reduced to almost inconsequential when averaged across the playerbase. I can only comment on Tempest, but years of experience in other RL concerns teaches me that statistical samples tend to be accurate within reasonable margins of error.
Maybe 10% of players are active crafters. From observation, I'd bet that less than 5% of those would qualify as hoarders, and less than that actually produce enough to have significant effect on the bottomline.
Of course, there's always that guy on Valcyn to skew the curve. 
You are stirring a pot and giving people ammunition on a non-issue. Again, instead of advocating improvements in the game for this profession, you stir ire. I think that a disservice to the community.
Fivo Asia
Message Edited by Cafa on 08-02-2005 09:11 AM
Message Edited by bluejanus on 08-02-2005 09:30 AM
bluejanus wrote:
Our correspondent relays this as a stumbling block to improvements in our profession. All the ideas we think up now are pretty similar to all the ideas we've ever thought up. The only improvements in our profession have been specious rather than general changes. Finally OMUs crate. It only took like 2 years. Dvnce says the devs think hoarding is an issue, why not create dialogue in regards to it.
The idea was relate an economic cost and value to hoarding. Such a system would likely cause resource prices to climb dramatically on particular resources. Generally there is a price that is irresistable to most sellers. If the devs could give out some information on the numbers in regards to the hoarding they're concerned about this would help. Dvnce get us some figures to work with...btw do the devs EVEN HAVE figures to work with or are they just assuming hoarding is an issue?
But that's not what you presented, is it?
bluejanus wrote:
Since Dvnce offered up an unpopular idea that was proposed elsewhere and got slammed on it. Let me propose one since I happen to think of it. I titled it this way, because I'm assuming it will be unpopular as well.
I propose that the devs examine the player database and monitor how much of any particular named resource is stored up. Maybe check again every month or so. They would use some threshold to decide how much was permitted and then adjust the resource spawn rates and keep a particular resource from spawning until the players used up enough of the stored resources to allow it to spawn again.
This widely unpopular idea would allow less commonly spawning resources to actually spawn. This would be because the more common resources that are stockpiled will be cut from the availability pool faster, leaving less common spawns in a shrinking pool of available possible spawns. Potentially if players hoarded enough, nothing would spawn except planet specific floral, organic, chemical, and unknown resources, but I'm sure once player understood how the system worked, they'd stockpile less. This change would probably the increase the use of 30k resource kits to alleviate the impact when certain resources stop spawning which help get them out of the equation. The key principle here is that players will understand that if they want to get any more of a favored resource or a better spawn of it, they'll have to give up or use up the hoards they have.
Obviously implementing this idea would require the regular maintenance of player accounts to eliminate the possibility that a cancelled player would hold enough stockpiled resources to prevent spawning of any given resource. And if the system works properly, players won't be able to necessarily force the spawn of any given resource and thus control how often a particular resource spawns.
For you IC and canon people, consider how strip mining can destroy usability of land and of the greater difficulty in extracting resources when mines start petering out.
Message Edited by bluejanus on 08-01-2005 11:36 PM
This is not a 'dialogue' concerning hoarding. This is a call for an outright nerf on resource spawns in order to fix a problem that has no statistical basis for fact beyond perception.
Fivo Asia
So what is the problem definition? Too much hording? (according to the devs as we hear from Dvnce)
First I think that SOE should admit that hording is natural and a healthy part of the economy.
As long as something has value and is scarce then people will horde it.
So why is hording a problem? I guess the answer we've gotten is that it makes it hard for new people to compete. Well the 30k resource kits should let people work around that.There are other ways to help the new people compete.
First there needs to be a real problem definition with specific goals in mind. There ought to be real data behind it. We don't get that. I suspect SOE may not even have much of it either, given what I've seen from Thunderheart in the past.
But there might be more to the 'hording' excuase we hear. It might be a combination of things. The more we horde the more storage teh servers have to maintain and that is a load on the system. The more we horde the harder it is for new people to compete. The more we horde the more we can mass produce as individuals and have a bigger individual impact on the economy. These are all things I've seen SOE oppose. Its probably the general combination of things they don't like thats causing the roadblock.
I think what really happens is that Dvnce presents an idea like for example: letting us experiment on factories so that we can increase input an output hoppers. Then SOE realizes this would increase storage and allow people to hold more stuff in their factories and they give a blanket 'no' cause of the blanket 'hording' reason.
Increasing crate sizes, increasing any BER output, increasing resource stack sizes.. these would all allow people to store more and therefore 'horde' more. Its not about the architect profession. Its about impact to the system in general.
But therse other things SOE could do for us that have nothing whatsoever to do with hording. They just ignore those.
I think we ought to try and get them to fix the things they don't even have an excuse (hording) to not fix. At least with those, SOE has no excuse even a half assed one like hording.
/hug Pawlin!
Pawlin wrote:
I think we ought to try and get them to fix the things they don't even have an excuse (hording) to not fix. At least with those, SOE has no excuse even a half assed one like hording.
Us: Could you increase BER rates or resource stack sizes?
SOE: NO! Hording!!
Us: Hording? Why's hording really a problem?
SOE: Hording bad!!!
Us: Well I'm convinced... *mumbles* that your a loon.
Us: Well could you maybe fix the broken Bestine museum paintings or give us that furniture coloring we thought you said was coming like a year ago?
SOE: *crickets chirping* *dried up tumbleweed rolls by*
Us: Ok then so lets fix that hording problem!
Pawlin wrote:
Us: Hording? Why's hording really a problem?
SOE: Hording bad!!!
Us: Well could you maybe fix the broken Bestine museum paintings or give us that furniture coloring we thought you said was coming like a year ago?
SOE: *crickets chirping* *dried up tumbleweed rolls by*
ROFL.
Thank you Pawlin for putting this in perspective. I suspect you are right. The majority of the changes we request deal with our need for more storage to accommodate the incredible number of resources and components we need (thankfully the OMU's crate now). This gets the "hoarding" rejection.
I would like to make sure that everyone understands that Architects have no more to do with resource hoarding (other than producing the harvesters) than any other profession. I know several combat characters who run harvester farms and pull up considerably more resources than I ever will.
We should focus on getting the non-storage issues in front of the dev's.
Pretty Much i think that the best solution... Is to Introduce Decay on structures with Moving Parts.. ( factories and harvesters) ... this will singlehandedly take the LARGEST bite out of Hoarded resources.. ( and will give us what we want too in returning market) ...
Pawlin wrote:
Us: Well could you maybe fix the broken Bestine museum paintings or give us that furniture coloring we thought you said was coming like a year ago?
SOE: *crickets chirping* *dried up tumbleweed rolls by*
For a moment I thought I was in the Corr Forum.. with these familiar sounds..
Cafa wrote:
Dvnce wrote:
Pretty Much i think that the best solution... Is to Introduce Decay on structures with Moving Parts.. ( factories and harvesters) ... this will singlehandedly take the LARGEST bite out of Hoarded resources.. ( and will give us what we want too in returning market) ...
All seriousness, did Elyssa's admin change for resource changing ever fly?
And I would LOVE harvestor decay! But how would you implement a factory decay?
Fivo Asia
Ideally I'd go for harvester decay, but it's been offered and rejected already.
Cafa wrote:
/hug Pawlin!
Pawlin wrote:
I think we ought to try and get them to fix the things they don't even have an excuse (hording) to not fix. At least with those, SOE has no excuse even a half assed one like hording.
I thought Dvnce relayed the hoarding reply to any architect issue including furniture colorization.
bunk72 wrote:
Can I ask why people are so concerned about resource hoarding?
I'm not concerned. I think hoarding is great. Just is just an idea I thought up.