Architect Archive
Thread: Architect doomed to be poor?
You've heard a lot of good comments here about competing against established players, working your way up, etc.
My suggestion: take that money that you have and DON'T BUY RESOURCES to grind. Instead, buy yourself a fleet of top-rated medium and/or heavy mineral harvesters (leaving enough cash in the bank to pay for 7-10 days of operations). Go out and pump up metals. Sell them on the Bazaar and/or in bulk sales for a week or two. You are looking to do several things:
- get a good harvester fleet
- really *learn* about mining - it is extremely hard to sustain yourself as a structure architect without doing your own mining
- learn about the resource market by understanding who is buying and selling on your server
- get yourself to a point where you can sell 20-30% of what you harvest and skim the rest to make things as an architect (typically walls for Master Architects)
So, 2 weeks as a pure miner, then another 2-3 weeks as a miner/architect grinder, then switch over to pure architect.
This is a sustainable approach and won't leave you starting as a master architect with no clue and no resources.
Finigol wrote:
Their is no way for a novice to compete with a master in anything. The only way to be a success is a be a Master of your Proffession.
This is the nice thing about the Architect profession, with most of our goods there is no difference btw what a novice can make and what a master can make. Best thing i found was get Installations I. That way you can make all the factories any crafter will ever use. There is no difference in a factory a master creates and the factory a novice makes. And they both sell btw 40-60k Actually the only Architect Items that need high quality resorces and are best left to Masters/high level Architects are harvesters. Architect is a great profession to take your time mastering b/c you can make flawless products even as a novice. It only took me a week to master architect, no i didn't make statues(well only a few that sold imediatly for 15k, and some to decorate my house) True i had plenty of money to buy good harvesters, but i spent next to no money on resorces, and sold EVERYTHING i made. By the time i made Master i had made over a mill credits and had areasonable customer base.
So you can make money mastering architect if you do it the right way and make things people actually buy(factories, furniture, houses). Just wanted to give encouragment to all you budding architects. 
When I first started, I wanted to be acrafter and I stillam to this day. I enjoy crafting and having a customer base that I can supply. It's reallyenjoyablewhen someone calls you up and says - "hey can you make me 20 heavies" and the next day - you deliver them.
I think, if you're going to go into crafting, you will want to do it because you enjoy it and go all the way - to Master Architect. There will be some that are out there just the money - the more the better. But many Architects, I believe are selling at what the current rate is.
My only beef is that there are many items that are one time. Once a player has a speeder, a house, some furniture and a few harvesters - there goes much of what I make. Architects should always have new items to get consumables to the players and keep the market alive and well. Personally, I don't think the candels helped and that fad will soon....fade... And, the corvette quest defeats the hard working that Masters Architectshave been working at. It's now makinginstant millionaires. People are buyinga schematic or the power plant or the av21 speeder in the millions. /beefoff
Fneegan wrote:
... And, the corvette quest defeats the hard working that Masters Architectshave been working at. It's now makinginstant millionaires. People are buyinga schematic or the power plant or the av21 speeder in the millions.
Dvnce wrote:
.... The Truth of the matter and you may be the one exception ... is people that are selling at well below what the normal market is established at are doing it out of fear.. Fear that the market will run dry... so in their mind selling so low will ensure that they will sell.. I am sorry but this mentality is ignorance.. yes our market will slow down.. it will fluctuate.. but it will never completely dry up.. and there will be enough business to continue to provide means for you to do what ever else you wish to do in this game..
Yes we're all ignorant of the future ... unless there is something you happen to know and would like to share with us??
Sounds like you're an optimist. Ok. But ya know some people are pessimists. Neither is ignorance.
We all know that houses and harvesters don't decay and only need replacing if someone forgot to pay maintenance, a bug killed it or they accidentally deleted it. This means that once everyone buys all the deeds they want then out business will turn into only a sustaining business rather than a growth business. You are right that our business will never completely dry up. We'll always have the turnover business or the business of replacing those lost harvesters. But NONE of us know exactly how much business there will be at that point. None of us know if the market will be able to sustain the number of current architects when we hit that point. How can we know for sure? So how is your hopeful view of the future any more accurate than someone elses gloomy forcast?
Course if you're dead broke then its easeier to be a pessimist and if you're filthy rich thenoptimism might come naturally.
I'm not saying its necessarily going down hill or that everything will be peachy. I take more of a wait and see attitude.
Standard disclaimer: The economy varies a lot from server to server.
I'm on Ahazi and we have all sorts of spammers in Coronet spouting off their coords where they're selling all resources at 2cpu or lower. They just spam. Do these people even play? Sure, they must be making some creds, but they're there ALL DAY!! What's the point in making money when all you do is park your characters arse in Coronet and flick the macro on?
Anyway, I sell my resources for what I think they're worth. The stuff I sell is overflow (how many 100Ks do I really want of gemstone?), and sometimes it's quite possible that I'll want to use it sometime in the future myself if it hasn't sold by then. For example, I had some steel on my vendor for about a week or so (maybe a bit longer, not sure). It was good steel. I use it a lot myself. So I asked myself how much I would pay for it...how much I thought it was worth. I figured that it was worth 5cpu. What happened to it? Someone came along and bought most of it in one shot. So sure, I didn't sell it right away, but eventually someone thought it was worth it. If I hadn't sold it, I probably would have ended up using it myself. Either way, I win.
What we have to remember about these bulk, underprice resource sellers is they harvest anything they can get their greedy little hands on. This means that a lot of the time their resources...ermmmm...are lacking in quality. They'll get sick of it eventually.
Dvnce wrote:
Id did not mean ignorance in what is to come in the future.. Even I dont have a crystal ball
I meant more or less an understanding of how A market works..
One thing that remains true thus far.. there is a group of people that quit playing everyday.. and there is a group of people that start to play everyday.. How long this cycle will happen will be up to SOE.. However with this media being based on Star Wars they do have a major helping hand..
So with new subscriptions still coming in there are new buyers.. with old subscriptions canceling there is room for the new.. This perpetuates the market. Taking this into consideration also look at what major thing is around the corner.. Space Expansion.. not only will this bring alot of new but it will also bring back alot of old...which equals more business..
Also.. Even the most experienced playersat times neglect their structures.. I get tons of mails saying I know you are going to think I am an idiot but I forgot to pay my mait and these and my harvs no longer exist.. Id say .. as much as 25% of my business is just from this reason.. ( now if harvesters would blow up as fast as factories do.. :smileywink
Right. OK so we all agree on this. There will be demand in the future. But how much of a demand will there actually be in the future? This is the unknown factor. Fear of the future is not necessarily unwarranted and not necessarily due to ignorance of how economies work. "Only the Paranoid survive".
How is it more correct to assume that the future will have a large enough demand to sustain us? Aren't you just making an optomistic prediction while the others are just making a pessimistic one? I still don't see how "ignorant" is correct. Its two different opinions of what the future may hold. Its like saying that someone is ignorant if they think Microsoft shares will drop in the future. Its just an opinion.
My whole point was simply .. Justifying why you are undercutting the market based on this fear is only showing your lack of understanding of the current market... and though most undercutters come back with I just dont want to rip of people.. or I make more than enough money at that price.. really have come to their decisions based on their fear of the market..(Everyone that I argued about undercutting (when I cared more about it) alwaysended up at this reason when they came out with their realfeelings on the issue) Is it really ripping off someone when the market is willing to pay that amount?
You may be right that a lot of people sell cheap out of fear but I think its short term fear more often than not. They just want to get their next sale and keep their business running. They let a short dry spell in their sales scare them into thinking they need to cut prices. Thats short term fear and not looking to the end game when we hit saturation of the market.
But I don't think that all people selling cheap are doing so because of fear orparanoia or ignorance. Selling low is a legitimate business strategy (e.g. Walmart)and the only thing that distinguishes people that sell low and people who we might think are undercutters is where we choose to set our own prices relative to theirs.
We're all undercutting someone except for that one guy who has the highest prices. Is it right for him to look down on us all with scorn?
Pawlin wrote:
Right. OK so we all agree on this. There will be demand in the future. But how much of a demand will there actually be in the future? This is the unknown factor. Fear of the future is not necessarily unwarranted and not necessarily due to ignorance of how economies work. "Only the Paranoid survive".
How is it more correct to assume that the future will have a large enough demand to sustain us? Aren't you just making an optomistic prediction while the others are just making a pessimistic one? I still don't see how "ignorant" is correct. Its two different opinions of what the future may hold. Its like saying that someone is ignorant if they think Microsoft shares will drop in the future. Its just an opinion.
But there are indicators that will help you make and Educated analysus.. which is quite a bit more than prediction... And.. Even If the market will end tomarrow but there is someone that will pay 10 dollars today.. Isnt selling that person at a price of 3 dollars because of what is going to happen tomarrow acting in ignorance?
You may be right that a lot of people sell cheap out of fear but I think its short term fear more often than not. They just want to get their next sale and keep their business running. They let a short dry spell in their sales scare them into thinking they need to cut prices. Thats short term fear and not looking to the end game when we hit saturation of the market.
But I don't think that all people selling cheap are doing so because of fear orparanoia or ignorance. Selling low is a legitimate business strategy (e.g. Walmart)and the only thing that distinguishes people that sell low and people who we might think are undercutters is where we choose to set our own prices relative to theirs.
We're all undercutting someone except for that one guy who has the highest prices. Is it right for him to look down on us all with scorn?
That is true.. However you will not see the same clothes at walmart as you see at nordstrom so in this analagy there is no real comparison.. premium prices usualy gets you premium product..Our case were are talking about prices of pretty much the exact same quality of product.. Even on the (Very Few items Walmart shares with its competitors) they still are not extremely below.. I E that panasonic DvD player that Sears also sells.. ..
There is a difference in looking at the guy selling it at the highest price.. And the Market accepted value of the goods..
Also Like I stated above ... Once I quit worring about the people selling way below me I started to enoy the game more.. I stay around market Value out of respect and I dont like to leave money on the table...
Dvnce wrote:
But there are indicators that will help you make and Educated analysus.. which is quite a bit more than prediction...
What indicators? Do you know of some real, solid data? I think there is some information but it is very spotty at best. I don't think anyone is really making 'educated analysis' but are actually just making assumption built on logical inferences, aka 'educated guesses'. We all see there are new players coming in so its safe to infer there will be more ongoing demand but we don't have any realnumbers. IN fact our understanding of 'market value' is not very solid, IMO. Its just based on what we see and that is not perfect. For anyone to conclude future demand will be enough to sustain the current level of business is really just guesswork. The main point I have is that you seemed to declare it was 'ignorant' to think the future demand wouldn't be there. But I think its just one opinion versus another as to whether or not the future demand would be sufficient or not.
And.. Even If the market will end tomarrow but there is someone that will pay 10 dollars today.. Isnt selling that person at a price of 3 dollars because of what is going to happen tomarrow acting in ignorance?
If selling for 3 dollars today is ignorance then why isn't selling for 9.75 today also ignorant? Its just a different extreme of the same activity. Or is there a magical break point between reasonablly low pricing and undercutting due to 'ignorance'? Maybe that tends to be the cost of raw materials for many people but then you just get into the infinite argument on what the 'real' costs are.. plus you have to consider the people who are still gaining XP.
Its like saying that driving 15 mph over the speed limit is stupid but that driving 5 mph over the limit is ok. Both are speeding and have differing circustances and reasons for doing so.
And is it really 3 dollars versus 10 dollars? Or is it 6k versus 8k verus 12k for a small house or 90k or 100k versus 125k or 175k for a heavy harvester? Which price is wrong and which is right and what is 'market value'? I don't think there are absolute specific answers to any of those.
That is true.. However you will not see the same clothes at walmart as you see at nordstrom...so in this analagy there is no real comparison.. premium prices usualy gets you premium product..Our case were are talking about prices of pretty much the exact same quality of product..
Even on the (Very Few items Walmart shares with its competitors) they still are not extremely below.. I E that panasonic DvD player that Sears also sells.. ..
Its not just the product. There are the other intangibles. Premium prices at Nordstroms gets you prestige and butt kissing. Its convenience, customer support, 'brand equity', etc and we do have those things in our businesses. Most businesses in SWG who sell super cheap tend to lack those other qualities. Or on rare occasions there are businesses in SWG who are cheap and have good service, etc..
Suffice it to say I don't think selling low is necessarily due to ignorance. However I do readily agree that some people who price cheap due so out of ignorace because they don't realize what people are willing to pay for items. But by the same token I think we're all ignorant to some degree about the market in general and definitely about what the future holds.
Pawlin wrote:
Dvnce wrote:
What indicators? Do you know of some real, solid data? I think there is some information but it is very spotty at best. I don't think anyone is really making 'educated analysis' but are actually just making assumption built on logical inferences, aka 'educated guesses'. We all see there are new players coming in so its safe to infer there will be more ongoing demand but we don't have any realnumbers. IN fact our understanding of 'market value' is not very solid, IMO. Its just based on what we see and that is not perfect. For anyone to conclude future demand will be enough to sustain the current level of business is really just guesswork. The main point I have is that you seemed to declare it was 'ignorant' to think the future demand wouldn't be there. But I think its just one opinion versus another as to whether or not the future demand would be sufficient or not.
Honestly .. is the market now .. or in the immediate future as bad as many people pesimestically assume? enough so to justify panic selling? NO.. It is not.. and that is what I am saying.. To simply say .. ok there are so many archs and so many players and we sell a product that does not decay.. is not enough.. because as of now the pot is continually being added too with new subscribers.. ( In my area of the country which is right next to yours.. SWG is still in the top 10 list for pc game sales.. and that is some HARD data..) I am not saying that EVERY one that undercuts is doing it because they are ignorant of that fact.. but you would be surprised at how many of the undercutters fail to understand all of the factors that determine the market status..
If selling for 3 dollars today is ignorance then why isn't selling for 9.75 today also ignorant? Its just a different extreme of the same activity. Or is there a magical break point between reasonablly low pricing and undercutting due to 'ignorance'? Maybe that tends to be the cost of raw materials for many people but then you just get into the infinite argument on what the 'real' costs are.. plus you have to consider the people who are still gaining XP.
Its like saying that driving 15 mph over the speed limit is stupid but that driving 5 mph over the limit is ok. Both are speeding and have differing circustances and reasons for doing so.
And is it really 3 dollars versus 10 dollars? Or is it 6k versus 8k verus 12k for a small house or 90k or 100k versus 125k or 175k for a heavy harvester? Which price is wrong and which is right and what is 'market value'? I don't think there are absolute specific answers to any of those.
I am not arguing on what the price should be.. realistically the only one really capable (unless every seller agreed 100% to sell at the same price) of setting what a price should be is the Buyer because they are the ones that determine what they will spend for an item.. .. Sell it for what ever you want I really dont care..and the 10 dollars doesnt say anything to that effect.. The 10 dollars says that is what the buyer is willing to pay.. and as you pointed out that is what many are unaware of.. Ignorant Is not a bad word.. It is not the same as calling someone an Idiot.. There are many things I am very Ignorant of.. All that means that I dont have a full understanding of those things..
Its not just the product. There are the other intangibles. Premium prices at Nordstroms gets you prestige and butt kissing. Its convenience, customer support, 'brand equity', etc and we do have those things in our businesses. Most businesses in SWG who sell super cheap tend to lack those other qualities. Or on rare occasions there are businesses in SWG who are cheap and have good service, etc..
Suffice it to say I don't think selling low is necessarily due to ignorance. However I do readily agree that some people who price cheap due so out of ignorace because they don't realize what people are willing to pay for items. But by the same token I think we're all ignorant to some degree about the market in general and definitely about what the future holds.
Remember I am not knocking anyone here.... It is not bad to be ignorant, especially if you are open to enlightenment..
And Pawlin .. I hope you know I do enjoy these debates that You and Seem to like to get into .. I Hope that you are taking this as nothing more than plan fun... ( He He.. you really like playing Devils Advocate dont you...) Which that is good cause it keeps leaders on their toes and awake at the wheel
Dvnce wrote:
And Pawlin .. I hope you know I do enjoy these debates that You and Seem to like to get into .. I Hope that you are taking this as nothing more than plan fun... ( He He.. you really like playing Devils Advocate dont you...) Which that is good cause it keeps leaders on their toes and awake at the wheel
Thanks for helping me killssome time at work today.