Architect Archive
Thread: #1 Architect Problem
Exactly terrorbeat, I agree totally with you there. I'm excited to see the array of options that will hopefully open up for us once player cities become open for construction.
terrorbeat wrote:
You're all forgetting the most simple fact:
This is an MMORPG, which means... More Stuff Will Be Added.
What we're looking at right now isn't the END of it, it's the beginning. When player cities arrive, I am sure there will be more we can build. So no, everybody DOESN'T have everything they'll ever need. How can you make that statement inany MMORPG? You can't, cause it's a ever-changing game. The issues we're dealing with now, we likely won't be dealing with in 6 months.
The basic point is that unless the buildings can lose effectiveness or deteriorate, you only have to buy the item 1 time.
All other professions you have to continue to buy the item.
After placing my 2 windmills, a small house for an office, and a structure factory, I only have slots for 4 medium harvesters. I can't even get enough materials with thisto fill the orders I get for factories and houses now. You expect me to have to create new medium harvesters every week? Forget about when I move up to heavy machines that take more resources to make than a factory.
We don't get to redeed stuff for free. You currently lose all the power you put in them, and 3000 credits for a medium. I'd say that's a fair trade off for being able to move a medium harvester. This methid rewards the player who thinks ahead and pays attention to resource movement (over the player who just loads it up with 5 days of power and cash) but only by a bit, so it's not a huge advantage.
Now I can see not being able to redeed a house, especially if you aren't an architect. But the way construction works, you have to imagine that within the fiction it's all being done by nanobots or something anyway. Why couldn't they disassemble a house just as easily as assemble it?
Perhaps they could raise the moving costs of buildings, but architects could get a discount? That doesn't seem fair. Architects already have enough money from what I've seen.
However this is a legitimate concern and makes me glad I got in early while people still need houses. There will always be a market for some new stuff as people forget to pay their maintenance, or can't afford it, or want to upgrade. Until every person on the server has a large house and is in a PA, there's a market for us. But that market will shrink, which will hopefully encourage some people out of the architect field.
Enjoy it while you can, architect may not be as fun in 3 months I guess. I really hope they start adding some new stuff to prolong it, like more furniture and city-style structures.
X-EQholic wrote:
The basic point is that unless the buildings can lose effectiveness or deteriorate, you only have to buy the item 1 time.
All other professions you have to continue to buy the item.
And I happen to agree with your basic principle here in theory at least....although I'm not sure how the devs would get around the idea of on the one hand making people pay to maintain the equipment at 100% and yet on the other hand saying 100% doesn't mean it really works at 100%....basically what you'd be telling people at least in terms of harvesters is that they're paying maintenance fees to maintain the harvester housing or 'outer shell', and that the internal mechanism deteriorates over time as you move it regardless and there's nothing you can do about it. When it comes to housing and PA Halls, I'm not sure how that would even be implemented when the basic structure is the nuts and bolts of the things anyway...there's nothing mechanical going on there unless you count something like an elevator in a PA Hall. Not sure how you'd get past all those issues and still manage to do what you're talking about effectively, but if there's a way to do it, then I'm all for it.......with the exception of architects themselves. That's my main issue, is that the people who built these things to begin with or have the skill to do so shouldn't suffer those effects because they would naturally have the skill to circumvent such things in the first place, to be able to construct, or deconstruct and rebuild without being penalized. If you don't do this, then you end up over time with architects spending a good portion of their resources and time just having to replace their own equipment they use to gather resources in the first place instead of on filling orders from customers and making things other people need. That's the point I'm trying to make above with the other guy. If you make that situation apply to architects as well, even in part, then you're going to see a mass exodus of people leaving the architect profession and end up with the polar opposite situation than you have now, with very few people willing to put up with being an architect, given that a good chunk of the resources they'd beable to produce having to go to remaking the equipment over and over to be able to produce those resources in the first place. That's just ridiculous.
Why would you want to leave a profession that would be profitable. Heck you could always have orders, instead of running out after a couple months.
It cost only .5-.8 per resource to harvest that includes power. So lets say you had to make a new mineral harvester every week. That would still cost you as an architect about the same as redeeding does now. Maybe even less.
This is our biggest problem i would agree.
I would prefer one of two methods already mentioned here on the boards.
Method 1 : On top of maintains cost you would need a architect to perform ruitine maintance on the structure once a week. If said maintance is not performed the machine gradually gets less.it should deteriate to a point where it still functions but about a tenth of a maintained one.The maintance affectiveness of the architect could be added to the construction skills.
Method 2 : Depending on the success while building some of the maintance fees are transfered to the acrchitect. This is touchy becasue once something is built and sold the architect will always have income coming in. The amount would have to be low. take for example the small house takes 8cr per half hour to maintain. The architect who built it would get .008 of the maintance per half hour. On a harveter that is 25cr per half hour it would be .025 cr per hour.
And a idea i had but it would only target crafters so it would be less affective. Make the effectiveness of crafting terminals deter over time. While also making it so that if standing by a well crafted terminal gives you a less likely hood of failure. i always make mine as good as i can and have not noticed a diffrenece i may be wrong .
I personnaly like method one it would give us something to do other than building while also make our items deteriate to an extent.
Furniture should stay as is that would only be a pain and a added time sink.
X-EQholic wrote:
Why would you want to leave a profession that would be profitable. Heck you could always have orders, instead of running out after a couple months.
It cost only .5-.8 per resource to harvest that includes power. So lets say you had to make a new mineral harvester every week. That would still cost you as an architect about the same as redeeding does now. Maybe even less.
Cost isn't an issue. You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. Most architects produce the resources themselves, they don't go *buy* the resources, especially when you've got people trying to rationalize5+credits per resource compared to what you just stated. Now, if you do it right, eventually you're going to make the high end and most efficient equipment to take the most advantage of your lot allotment. So let's say hypothetically you've got Mr. Architect with a medium house, 2 fusion generators, and 6 large harvesters. If architects have to make new harvesters and are affected the same way everyone else is, Mr. Architect here suddenly puts up his 'closed' sign for the next 2-3 days at minimum while he comes up with the resources necessary and takes the time to make new versions of everything he has to use. And of course that doesn't even take into account the gradual reduction of intake of resources he'll be getting as the harvesters deteriorate each time they're moved until making new equipment even becomes an issue. Now, explain to me not only how in this scenario the architect would be just as profitable as before or even how they wouldn't be much less profitable, to say nothing of the general frustration and hair-pulling that would be involved? If that's your idea of fun, then you must be a masochist. I said above, I love being an architect as things are now. But if you implement your idea and have it apply to our profession as well, you're going to have people turning away from architect in droves, and you're going to be doing far more harm than the good you intend.
You all are right on the fact that if this isnt changed then architecture in SWG is a dying profession. I like the ideas, or most of them posted here, about attempting to repair this. Id like to place an idea of my own, which I think also will solve the above dilemma about whether an architect should get the deed back.
Idea 1...Architects could be given a new ability to "Reclaim Deed". This ability could be based off of our currently useless "repair" skill points or could be based on an entire new set of skill points. With basing the reclaiming of a deed on an ability and skill points, which only architects could get, then you set a system in place where architects could reclaim the deed at varying degrees of success. Obviously a Master Architect would have the highest possible chance of success, although they should have a small chance of failure as well.
Now comes the question...so an architect can reclaim his/her deeds, what about the rest of SWG? Well, an option for setting a permission to reclaim the deed could added to structures. When an architect reclaims the deed for a structure which they do not own, they would need to be on the reclaim permission list and the deed would appear in the owner's inventory, not the architects. For example:
Ima home ownerand want to move my house. I could contact an architect and ask themif they will redeed my house for me. The architect would need to go to my home location and I would need to add him to the permissions list for redeeding. When he used the "Reclaim Deed" ability on my house I would get a window asking me if I want to allow this. I click yes and then the deed appears in my inventory. Both the architect and the owner would get a mssg stating how effective the redeeding was.
This idea would give the architect further employability within SWG. The idea could also generate further income for good architects willing to travel to remote areas to redeed a house for someone.
Idea 2...This one is simple. All ppl are created equal, thus once you place a deed you have a set amount of time to pick it up and move it or you will lose the deed. Give each harvester a time period of 48 hours(negotiable time) after being placed to have the ability for the owner to reclaim the deed. All houses, PA Halls, and factories could have a time period of 7 days(negotiable time). This will allow forpeople to, in a sense, 'rent' a location before deciding to make their structure permanent. After said amount of time period, the owner can only choose to destroy the structure with no chance of redeeding.
Ok those are my ideas. I just want to add a concept to those with small debate over whether an architect should or should not be able to reclaim the deed. We could compare SWG architecture to RL architecture. One hires an architect to build a house, skyscraper, bridge, etc etc. However, to remove that structure, one hires a demolition crew and then rehires the architect to build in another location.
Also, to the guy that said he supplies architects with materials and that if you lost your deed each time you built that you would charge an architect alot more per resource. I believe your sentiment was make our noses bleed. Well thats fine, but remember, the price you charge for resources directly correlates to the price you pay for a finished product. How does your nose feel?
Fing Mandragoran
Tera Kasi / Architect
X-EQholic wrote:Why would you want to leave a profession that would be profitable. Heck you could always have orders, instead of running out after a couple months.
It cost only .5-.8 per resource to harvest that includes power. So lets say you had to make a new mineral harvester every week. That would still cost you as an architect about the same as redeeding does now. Maybe even less.
X-Eqholic where the heck is your head cause the sun ain't shining on it.
A heavy harvester costs over 20,000 resources. I suppose you can just pull 200,000 resource out of that same place your head is every week to make a new set?
Medium minerals are NOT the nominal costs for extractors that are max 4kg/hr, they are the exception.
ROFL!! Well said Betatoxin! I simply can't believe there are actually people who've played as an architect for any length of time that wouldhave the audacity to suggest that if such an idea as has been presented that harvesters should deteriorate as they're moved, that the architects who build them in the first place should be affected the same way as everyone else in order to benefit architects and keep them viable. What you're basically sayingin essence is, 'I need to severely injure my legs so I can remain standing'. Sheesh!
Betatoxin wrote:
X-EQholic wrote:
Why would you want to leave a profession that would be profitable. Heck you could always have orders, instead of running out after a couple months.
It cost only .5-.8 per resource to harvest that includes power. So lets say you had to make a new mineral harvester every week. That would still cost you as an architect about the same as redeeding does now. Maybe even less.
X-Eqholic where the heck is your head cause the sun ain't shining on it.
A heavy harvester costs over 20,000 resources. I suppose you can just pull 200,000 resource out of that same place your head is every week to make a new set?
Medium minerals are NOT the nominal costs for extractors that are max 4kg/hr, they are the exception.