Architect Archive
Thread: Why have novices make walls for you?
Scortch,
I have to say. If there's one thing I've learned over my month or so of being an arch it's that there's always enough ore. You just gotta know where to find it and have to be willing to pay for it. I have three suppliers that can supply me with 100K ore on the spot if I asked. Two for 2.5cpu, one for 3cpu. And I don't mind paying that much if I just don't have it on me. Even if I end up losing money, I don't mind. I'm here to keep my customers happy and to get return business, not to make money.
Anian
Anian wrote:
So, why not just let them grind with your resources instead. I completely agree that buying walls off novices is, well, I hate so say it, but one of the biggest wastes of money in this game. I mean money doesn't mean much to me other than what I need to keep my harvs up and the such. But, for what I sell for, getting novices to make the walls is actually just a very bad business decision.
Why not just let them grind walls using your materials instead? If you want to pay them like 1K credits per wall to assemble that's great. Before I was guilded, I actually just grinded TONS AND TONS of walls for the former master arch in my PA. He never payed me a bit, but I got probably 80K to 100K exp each night. And that was WELL worth it to me. I kept myself (and my extractors) alive and kickin by running missions myself. And, I'd grind walls for that master arch.
That way, everyone wins, and you don't make what I consider to be a very bad business descision.
If they crit on a structural module here and there, then that's nothing off your money. Sturctural modules are cheap and don't require really any resources when compared to other arch things. So, say they crit on a wall here and there, so be it. In the long run, you are still saving yourself a TON of money...even if u do pay them 1K per wall just to put things together. Chances are that none of the novice archs have anything better that medium extractors on their lots anyway. So, they burn through 15 walls for ya at 1K per wall flat fee, that's enough to easily handle maint costs on all their extractors and leave them some money to buy some stuff they want.
I just don't think that buying walls is a smart idea. Letting novices grind on your materials, now that's a great idea. Just don't give them much at first. Make sure you can trust them. Let them make 3 walls the first day, 5 walls the next, etc until u know that they won't cheat u out of resources.
Anian
The best example I can come up with to refute this is:
"Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime"
Besides the "trust issue" which isn't that great a deal.you can build up trust. A big reason why I buy walls is that giving someone a stack of resources so that they can get free experience isn't teaching them anything but the boring part of the business (click click click). The largest learning curve for architects is resource intensity and managing resources and lots. A master architect that has never had the experience of balancing harvesters and resources won't be very realistic when quoting time factors to potential customers. Yes there are tools that help you to know what your harvesters will generate but without actually going through the process you don't really "know".
Also I don't discourage my apprentices from building their own client base. By letting them fall back on selling me walls it still gives them the chance to work on orders for others when the oportunity arises and use the amount that I will buy walls from them as a pricing guideline.
Well here's my perspective from the novice architect view.
I've set an arrangement up where I make the walls out of the master's resources. He doesn't have the time to do it, I do.
I have my own set of harvestor's that support me in my architect endeavors, and I use my resources to create items that I sell.
I use the master's resources to build walls, I get the xp, he get's walls, and we both leave happy.
So in a sense, I'm really performing as an apprentice. I do the mundane for the master, while building my own skills as a hopefully future master architect.
Regardless there will always be someone selling for less then they can make it, but they won't have a sustainable business, it will only be a matter of time, before they either raise their prices to make a living, or they quit. The rest of us, that have the fortitude to stick with it, will need to keep doing what is best for our business, and in the end, I have a pretty good idea who will still be around.
Anian,
i don't understand your argument...
You dont think it makes any sense to buy a wall from a novice at 2.5 - 3 cpu, but you think its ok to buy the ore yourself for the same price?
Then what.. you give the novice the ore, or do you make it into walls yourself?
I'm happier letting the novice worry about where he gets his ore... and the cost to me is the same. He gets the same xp either way.
The difference is that if I provide the ore, then he still has all of his to turn into cut-price structures.
Im in a business, and I want to keep control of as much of the ore as possible. If I can i would like to buy all his ore from him in the form of walls. He can only sell the walls to me (an architect), and I can now control the price of the finished structures. he gets the benefit of the guaranteed sales to me, and I have an already established outlet for the finished structures.
Its a win-win as far as I can see.
The only time i wouldnt buy walls made from the novice's ore is when i have enough ore of my own for everything... and that never happens... I sell too much.
You say that 'There is always enough ore'.. what you meant was 'There is always enough ore if you pay enough for it'. I would do it your way if I could buy ore at 1.5 - 2 cpu, but 2.5+ is no better than buying the walls pre-made.
MonkeysRMe,
The only way to stop someone getting to Master Architect would be to prevent the mining, and since everyone can do that it isnt a possibility.
Since they can always become one, why not have both people do something worthwhile. The novice makes walls for xp... I build them into finished structures that makemore money.
When he is a Master he wont want to make walls any more, so Im back to looking for a new novice, but the alternative is grinding walls myself.. and where is the fun in that 
The economy of this game is deliberately set up so that no-one can stop anyone else from doing whatever class they like.
PosiTec nailed it.
They're already going up the Arch Tree.
It's too late for them.
At least I will help them die as a Master, not a Novice.
I would rather not make walls. If need be, I'll pull the struct mods out and assemble walls, but I'd much rather have my apprentice do it. I had him 3k in ore for every wall he makes. We all win, since I have more ore than I can make things into anyways.
cheers,
acer
Just to clarify. I will buy ore at 2.5cpu and 3 cpu and I don't mind at all. But, this is only in emergency situations. 90% of the ore I use I get from mining my own, getting it in trade, or buying it at 1.3cpu from my guild.
Sorry I didn't make that as clear as it should have been.
And about grinding walls. Why do u do it? I have three to four structure factories set up and I run bricks in 'em quite a bit. Making a wall once bricks are done is nothing. And if you still don't like doing that, let the factories make 'em for ya. Unless I am off planet w/out bricks or I am in a huge hurry, I don't grind through bricks at all anymore.
Anian
1) I buy them cheaply and can produce more of my items much quicker. This is profit for both of us.
2) It's better to buy walls from novices than to allow them to flood the market with low priced end-user items that hurt everyone in the long run.
3) I remember what it was like to be a starving architect trying to scrape together enough money to keep my harvesters running and I like to help people that are in the same situation I was.
4) Architects will be there no matter what. People will master it no matter what.
5) It helps create connections between architects and the people I have "helped" to become master have been and continue to be better for business. Before they were master they sent any business for items they could not yet build my way and they continue to send business my way when they cannot fill an order. I do the same for them, I don't have alot of time to build small houses, furniture and sometimes medium harvesters/houses and I send alot of this business to them.
6) I've given them all of thier needed training for free. I've long since maxed my apprenticeship points (1250 btw) and I enjoy being able to give them advice.
7) The collaboration amongst Architects helps level out prices. It's not very often that I hear of someone undercutting my prices by much anymore...and even when they are, It usually takes them days to produce the larger items like PA Halls as oppossed to the 5 minutes or so it takes me.
----> [most important] 8) I play this game to make friends and have fun. SWG credits aren't real, sure their neat but still not real. However, the friends I've made in this game are and I've made alot of them. That's what makes this game continue to be fun.
It's not a real job people....still just a game. =)
i have looked at the professions and i want to be an architect.
now after reading this it looks like i need to build walls and lots of them --- so who wants them ...
please send me a pm or in game mail
thank you
ps why dont we all set up a pricing structure and stick to it ....
Might help if you post your server
On shadowfire I'm accepting new apprentices currently.
There's a posted called adopt and architect that has several masters listed that are currently working with/looking for apprentices.
Ndainye,
I have to disagree with ya completely on that one. During the time when I was grinding walls, and when I first joined the guild, i didn't build anything. I just was grinding constantly. But, I took care of all the sales. I did a lot of research on the boards. And, I found ways to improve processes and shrink the amount of time needed to do most things my master arch was taking a long time to do.
I did the whole click click thing. But, during my two week grind to master, I actually learned literally everything I needed to know to take over the business (since my arch mentor and ARC's former Master Arch went combat instead).
I don't think you are doing any kind of injustice at all. Yeah, the first factory run for me was intimidating, but I figured it out. Yeah, the first final combine on a Heavy Mineral was intimidating, but I got it done (and both w/out my Master Arch mentor around).
I still hold by my opinion that you should let novices grind on your materials versus buying walls from them. Saves money in the long run, and I'm living proof that while doing this, they can figure out the trade and all things that go into it.
Anian