Architect Archive
Thread: Vendor Item .. Working for and Acceptable Balance....
Elyssa
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:55 pm
#14
Pawlin wrote:
Flaming is not necessary. We're all unhappy about this proposed vendor limit but lets not get turn it into personal attacks against each other.
He's right.
There's plenty of devs around that need "hot" pants. 
Also, these limits wouldn't be so bad *IF* and only if stacks got higher and the customer could purchase a quantity from the crate/stack.
However, the limits are still too small for those of us who have actually spent the points to be a Master.
The limits will need to be higher to support "single-item" sales as well.
Not everything crafted is sold in a crate.I don't see many tailors making crates of random clothing.
The same thing will come about if we get the ability to color furniture.
Who wants to make factory runs of the orange couch in orange and another in blue and another in red and another in white? It gets even more absurd for 2-tone items.
If craft-time furniture customization comes about, the 'buy from the crate' option will be meaningless. (However, a post-craft customization tool would be dandy.)
What about pets? Can't crate those.
Swoops? For some of us it's a little expensive to have to crate those.
Loot? Also not crated.
And even if the 'buy from the crate' option comes about, can we set a minimum purchaseincrement on things like resources?
If I put up a stack of 100k of iron and someone comes along and buys 99997 (commas would be useful here)units of it, I'm stuck with 3 units of it that no one will buy.
I need to be able to specify that this particular item is for sale in chunks of 500 or 1000 or whatever and price it accordingly.
Dvnce
Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:02 am
#15
Ok .. I know alot.... well ok everyone is not to happy about the numbers that were let out into the public about the vendor limits..
I want to say I have been fighting vendor item limits for along time now.. and the numbers are higher than the original idea... at least on the lower end ... So .. that tells me the devs will listen..
The idea that is being chased here is not just data base ... after all I think that after you get rid of all the iliget vendors out there .. you will have a huge stress release off of the data base.. what is trying to be accomplished is 1 .. increasing the relationship between those who have something to sell.. and merchants.... and as I Have been saying before it was never intended for 1 crafter to have the means of puting 1000's of items on one vendor...
Ok .. so here is the major problem.. there is not enough merchants to cover everyone that wants to sell something..
This is what I have proposed.....
I can live with the start being at 50 items in Business 3.. but there needs to be a higher step .. to busniness 4 and master artisan as well... the top end at master artisan needs to be at least 350-400 ish at master..per vendor.. this still would not be awesome for those of us that keep a heavily stocked vendor with alot of variety .. ( but there truthfully is not very many of us) ...
also I am pushing for all things to be able to factory crate to 100.. and for like serialed items to be stackable to that 100 limit too... these stacks being able to be placed on the vendor with a Per Item price ... giving the buyers the option to select how many item from the stack they wish to buy....
So .. let me say this.. I purpose of starting this thread is to one let you know that I have been forcefully talking against the changes since they were first given to me... The devs are listening.. but we need to be working together for a solution... we need a good long .. thread here with Productive Communication... Keep in mind what I said above what is trying to be accomplished with these changes.. and lets fill this up with nice .. short and direct requests of what would be acceptable... most important say something... even if it is just ... I like the changes .. I hate the changes..
FeydSWG
Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:17 am
#17
I would be okay with this if there were a button on the vendor to refresh all sales so i didn't have to continually restock items that expire after 30 days... as it stands now, if i want to go out of town for a week, i have to unstock everything, then restock it so i know that nothing will expire right after i leave town, then lose it because it gets deleted out of my stockroom.
please please please give merchants a "refresh all sales" button that resets their timer.
If you up house storage limits, add that button, i could almost choke down the vendor item limit.
Cafa
Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:45 am
#18
Well there's gonna be a large vacuum on Tempest if these changes go into effect as is.
Of course, when I give away 8000 heavy harvs for free it might be a little hard to sell anything for a while.
ZenDragonMLS
Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:54 am
#19
Dvnce wrote:... and as I Have been saying before it was never intended for 1 crafter to have the means of puting 1000's of items on one vendor...
Dvnce, I'm sorry but you've brought up what the "devs intended" before. As a system architect I have a deep problem with that statement and thinking at many levels.
But let us be very very specific, and give concrete examples.
The architect furniture line has like 80 items. None of those items takes a large amount of resources, so the people flapping their lips about cross-server lot trades and people gathering millions of resources have NO leg to stand on for that. An architect with the *original* BER2 small harvesters and 6 lots can easily build 1000s of pieces of furniture each week.
Some of those items are best sellers, and some never sell. However, the stuff that DOES sell sells a lot. Most of my furniture customers do NOT buy 1 each of 5-7 items. Instead, they are actually furnishing a house or PA Hall or something and they buy 2-10 each of 6-10 items. I put both single quantities of all furniture on the vendor, and I also put 5-packs and 10-packs on there (which gives me and the customer convenience and also reduces the number of items on the vendor).
The whole *reason* that my furniture business is so good is two things: location and how well stocked it is. Yes, I advertise, but the whole thrust of my advertising is that I have a convenient location and I have what you need in stock right now. I'm able to load it up and know that if a customer wants 10 sofa chairs and 12 small modern end tables that they will be able to find them. I don't have to stock it everyday so I can play other characters and/or do something different with my architect character.
So I carry 300-400 items (sometimes more) on my furniture vendor. If it shrunk down to 100 items or even 200 items, then I have to do a some / all of the following:
- do severe triage on my product line and only carry 10-15 pieces of furniture
- put only 1 of most things on the vendor
- make a point of stocking the vendor *every* day
- break up my vendors into "chairs / tables", "stations / plants", etc
*EVERY* one of those options means MORE *work* for me (instead of enjoyment), MORE *work* for my customers (in that they have to shop in multiple places and/or do custom orders), and likely less business for me.
I can make the same case for my "structures" vendor - keeping 5-10 each of each small harvester, each heavy harvester and several types of small houses, and a number of medium and large houses, along with 2-3 of each factory. That vendor has hit 200 deeds easily before, and is almost always over 100 items.
So given these limits I don't care if I have to have the merchant skills (which I do) or if I "increase social interaction" by working with a Master Merchant - *neither* scenario will match the convenience and enjoyment that both me and my customers currently have.
And yes, I'm willing to bet money that the actual limits that they plan on rolling out are somewhat higher than this first blast. It's a classic negotiating ploy to throw out such a lowball number that the other side "feels good" when you finally "listen to them" and raise the number.
If these limits go in it may very well reduce the database load - but not in a way that the developers will like.
Ferrer_Roberts
Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:32 am
#20
Patch 10 Merchant Nerf.
Good idea on empty vendors.
Bad idea vendor item cap.
Feedback for Devs if vendor item cap goes live. (Not a threat ill be starting this today).
Going to close down 2 furniture vendors and close shop.
Shop becomes storage house.
2 new storage vendors (all vendors now storage any new ones added will be as well).
Use all remaining slots for factory storage...........
Make cheap factories en masse for all fellow crafters to store their surplus goods/resources.
Sit back and watch economy and SWG collapse.
And no i wont be doing email/tell orders.
And yes i have enough creds to live off for a VERY long time.
Comrade Ferrer Roberts
FCORP (soon to be FCORP STORAGE)
Mast Arch/Artisan/ (soon MasterMerchant so I can have the best dressed storagevendors in galaxy).
Sorax
Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:31 am
#21
As far as i am concerned an accepable balance is not considered a limit. Any limit on vendors is a Bad Bad and i mean Bad Idea.All this is gonna do is start a mass cancellation of accounts. And from what i read most of the big named people are gonna just giveaway there stock. That means the market on most servers will be saturated for months which means people won't need to many crafters maybe a specialty item now and again, but as far as making money off your vendor don't count on it.
I personally stock a large selection of artisian and architect items and my stock grows every week and will continue to grow as my business grows such is the way of business. Now if there gonna put limits on what kind of business i run them i will have to continiously bug it as a problem cause in my mind it is.
I will not accept any limit on vendor and thats the Bottom line and the only Acceptable balance i see.
OHafi
Sun Aug 08, 2004 9:37 am
#22
Here is an idea.
Get rid of the Merchant Tree entirely. Add the ability to place vendors exponentially within the crafting professions, with a bonus for those who master a skill, and the rest of the bonuses as well, such as the ability to advertise, dress vendors, etc. Cap each vendor at 1000 items. Empty vendors disappear or decay similarly to harvestors, with a warning.
They revamped Jedi, they can do this too.
As for stacking items in crates, I love the 100 idea, because it sure is a pain to make a schematicfor small tat houses especially when someone orders 20 houses for a city, having to clear space in my inventory to put them into my pack and then load them on a vendor. As a master arch/artisan who TRIES to be ready for any and all needs, I carry a full pack and backpack and three closet storage droids, and it is always a trick to drop a pack so I can load vendors. But that is acceptable.
What is not acceptable is being forced to drop a mastered skill because the Devs feel like nerfing something.
Lastly, one of my pet peeves are people who claim boredom with a game because they have "done it all". Soloe'd it all. Looted it all. Mastered it all. This game was made for interaction. You build friendships, forge relationships, gain a reputation, etc. I can't imagine walking up to your friends in real life and saying, " Well, I'm done with you all, need a new set of friends because we have done it all."
So will I leave because the Devs have chosen to make it impossible for me to continue in my chosen professions or will I try to work out something so I can retain the relationships I have forged for a year? Probably the latter.
But I am extremely unhappy with my forced options. All the love in this game goes to the combat and Jedi professions, and in my humble opinion, that is just plain WRONG. And I am willing to fight for what is right.
Crafting for most of those I have read about here, ( and I would be delighted to meet you, because I like your values!), is more than macroing and clicking a button until something dies. It is an art, as the name "artisan" suggests. I feel pride in my name and reputation for selling quality, for designing and decorating homes and cities. I feel pleasure when my harvestors hit the BER 13, and I am *still* questing in my mild way, for the perfect resources to FINALLY make a perfect crafting station. This is what fuels an artisan.
Don't take away my joy.
O'Hafi I'Pi
Mayor: Purgatory's Gulch, Dantooine, Tarquinas
Roleplayer, Entertainer, Architect and Artisan
Pcep
Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:01 am
#23
I ceratinly think players should have some business/merchant to run vendors but the cap is entirely too low. One idea I had for making the merchant class more interesting is the ability for non-merchants to rent vendors from merchants and, forextra fees, they can choose different types, have them dressed and get advertisement. This will give the merchants a source of income. I do not like the idea of someone else selling my wares.
Sovak
Master Architect/BE, Radiant
LonelyGhost
Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:27 pm
#24
I too would be content only if it were at 500. But, sadly, I fear they will not find this acceptable. Just a gut feeling. It is my opinion that the Devs are dertermined to force us to clean out our closets, and choose only a small handful of things we want to keep, and destroy the rest. The housing limits, and the rumored lot "rebalance" are strong symptoms to this. They dont want me to have a collection of rare artifacts, and old items that have been removed from the game (like Chiagra, remember that?) on display in a museum. They dont want me to have 17 million units of resources stored away. They dont want me to own 15 different full sets of clothing to suit my every whim and mood. They dont want me to have an Armory display in a PvP Guild showing ne wplayers every type of weapon and armor in the game.
What they seem to want are vagabonds, hobo's even, who live out of their suitcase and live hand-to-mouth.
We cant decorate AND store stuff. We cant store stuff AND harvest. No stuff.....they want us to get rid of our stuff. Humans have a genetic predisposition to KEEP STUFF! You cant fight it. Its human nature. Give up your quest to force us to go minimalist.
If there was enough for a crafter to do outside of the full-time harvesting/stocking/manufacturing, then they wouldnt mind having a slower business maybe. But since many crafters dont like to fight, crafting is all there is for them.
Ugh, I'm rambling. Its late. They will not see this thread anyway. Ugh.
I will reserve judgement until I see word from them. I can only hop ethey dont force me to drop 16 houses to store all my stuff. I wonder whats worse for the game, 16 houses in the world filled up with stuff, or a single vendor filled with stuff?
StumanKadir
Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:46 pm
#25
What they are hoping for and what is going to happen are as far removed from reality as unicorns. In a sentence "It just aint gonna happen".
The devs cannot expect people to do what they feel they should be doing when they give merchants and crafters no tools to allow it to happen. The whole thing is going to be based solely on trust, and as someone earlier mentioned, like we are going to trust someone with a couple of million credits of deeds without first saying "pay me up front bucko".
It's the old cart before the horse analogy. They know that there are very few Master Merchants in any galaxy, and that those who are, are more often than not either alts for a crafter, or work exclusively within a PA. And even if one was available, the current item limits as speced on TC would preclude them from working with more than one or two crafters - something that defeats the whole idea from the start!! So how is this going to work? They have as little idea as the rest of us, but seem to feel that if they force something onto us, we will "somehow adapt".
Like Dunce and the others, I would prefer that the merchant line of vendor control start at Business 3, and item holdings be calculated up from there to Master Artisan (max 200 items at MA), and then if you wish to expand further, run up the Management Tree if you wish to be self-sufficient (which most of us do) to a max of 1000 items.
At this stage though the limits are unsustainable for a master level crafter and will see most people just walk away. That's not a flame, just an observation based on discussions with others on my Galaxy.
bluejanus
Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:33 pm
#26
This is a very cool idea. But the likelihood that it would get imp-ed seems remote to me. The consignment idea (merchant automarkup on letting other people sell from your vendor) is also a remote possibility. We aren't even getting OMUs in crates and now you're putting out the idea that the devs might consider a vending machine type vendor based on crates?
Dvnce wrote:
our stuff is not the only thing made in the factories.... and this doesnt say that you have to make a full 100.... items..
also wait till you make a large run of walls... 1000 walls.. 100 stacks of 10 unit crates.... see where I am going with this..
and the idea is that you could stack items up to the 100 unit cap... Place them on the vendor.. ( thus using 1 item spot ) and set a PER item price.... you buyer come to my vendor select the stack of 100 units at xxxx price per unit.. a prompt comes up asking how many units do you want..?? 1-100..... you say how ever many you want...... and walla ... pretty simple.. for seller and buyer...