Architect Archive
Thread: Why are Architects Undermining our Profession?
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Luzenit
Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:13 am
#14
I was a Master Architect once.....in fact I still have several of the skills. I have moved on to Master Weaponsmith and Master Merchant. As much as I enjoyed being an architect, I was not all that thrilled knowing I could sell resources at the same or better rates than the structures I made. I did better with furniture. Make sure you have a great shop location, and as another poster pointed out...BUY the undercutters' goods and resell them for a profit! This conserves your own resources, time, and spares you aggrivation. Stick to your prices. The undercutters usally fade into oblivion anyway after they burn through their resources quicker than they can replace them. This is true for many crafting professions. Good Luck!
l33thaxx0rnam3
Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:05 am
#15
Fueller wrote:
Being a newly acquired Master Architect myself, I humbly apologize for possibly doing this myself without realizing the effects or the "Proper" way of doing it. Could someone here, without flaming me, teach me in the ways of our goods. I need the mathematical equation. Thanks...
Good man.
The problem is that it's not based on a flat equation. It's more of a general feel on your server for resource prices.
Generally, most servers have settled (though it may be dropping) on something around 3cpu (cost per unit) for raw resources. I've been told by several people that you can haul stuff out of the ground for around 1.2 cpu, and have heard someone claim .8cpu. Why a 3cpu standard? Well, before the holomadness turned the universe into chaos, the limit on the bazaar was 3k credits, and 1K of resources stacks nicely. So, no good reason. Some people think that now the hologrinding is over, bazaar prices for resources will drop, and I agree, but I think there will probably be at least a couple more months before stuff settles down.
Like someone else said, there's lots of things that figure into the cost. It's not just how much it is to haul the stuff out of the ground. Don't forget to figure in your time, the cost of the havesters and their maint, rush orders, and if the client is being a jerk. 
Spend an afternoon going to other architects shops, check out thier prices, talk to them. Most architects that are left are in it for the long haul, and (in my experience) fairly friendly and helpful.
Cuttle44
Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:51 am
#16
To combat undercutting you just have to be bigger and better than anyone else. Most important is location. You have to be in the biggest, highest-traffic mall on your server. Then advertise (don't spam at the starport)--post on your trade forums with stocking lists, etc. Get your name out there. When you hit the middle stages of your business and have some cash and a steady stream of business go ahead and start buying up other arch's deeds if they are cheap enough. I hate making large houses, but they sell well on my vendor. So, when I'm out shopping if I see anyone that has them around 115k or lower I'll buy them, sell them all in a day or two at 175k and make the quick profit without the effort or use of my resources. This has only positive results for you. The undercutter has an empty vendor and you made a nice profit in addition to keeping your vendor stocked. They will eventually raise their prices if they see their merchandise flying off the shelves all the time. Nobody will visit them if their vendor is empty all the time either. The keys are keeping your vendor fully stocked all the time, having a great location, and advertising to bring in the business.
People will pay more for the goods if they know they can rely on your vendor to have the item instead of waiting for an order to be made or spending hours looking around for a cheaper price.
Also, make friends with the other big-time archs on your sever. Don't worry about the small-timers. They are going to come and go and not really effect your business much at all. If you can get together with the top 2 or 3 archs out there and price fix it will be in the best interests for all of you.
Cafa
Mon Apr 26, 2004 10:27 am
#17
Cuttle44 wrote:
[snip]
People will pay more for the goods if they know they can rely on your vendor to have the item instead of waiting for an order to be made or spending hours looking around for a cheaper price.
Also, make friends with the other big-time archs on your sever. Don't worry about the small-timers. They are going to come and go and not really effect your business much at all. If you can get together with the top 2 or 3 archs out there and price fix it will be in the best interests for all of you.
Couldn't agree more. Two months back I took the big pill and made 200 BER 13 gas heavies. Why? Cuz they are so hard to make on a dime and I wanted to preplan the steel usage without pressure to produce now. I sell them for 180k, no matter what.
Two good reactive cycles later I've sold 110 (approx) of them. Why? Because when the playerbase knows that you have every harv in stock word gets around. When they know they can go to your place and pickup 10 harvs to get the once in a lifetime reactive I am ready.
Again and again I've found good stocking beats out low prices in this economy.
Fivo Asia
Anian
Mon Apr 26, 2004 10:53 am
#18
Ok, once again I gotta get up on my soapbox.
Now, keep in mind that I would never intentionally undercut any architects on my server just to do it. But, if I feel I can sell for less than 3cpu, still make a profit, and enjoy the game, then so be it. Honestly, I had two accounts at one time doing nothing but resource supply. I was pullin ore (typically the lowest yield resource out there) at like 0.56cpu and selling it for 2cpu. Now if I pulled all my own ore, then I could get it all for 0.56, and that's largest quantity resource that we use in almost every structure. On my server, resource prices have hit rock bottom. Metals are selling for 1.5cpu to 2cpu. So,
So, let's say I did mine all more own ore and bought all the other metals and chemicals needed for 2cpu.
Total ore needed 15,900 units. All other materials 11,870 units.
15,900 * .56 = 8904
11,870 * 2 = 23740
Total resource cost for a heavy mineral (minus schematics...assume we had the schematic made) = 32,644 credits.
If I sell for even as low as 80K credits, that's still a 47,000+ credit profit.
So, let's look at it more realistically. Let's say that I can still mine all the ore needed for 0.56. Ok, let's say that now I have to spend 4cpu for all other resources to pump out 13KG/h harvs.
Ok, let's do that math
15,900 * 0.56 = 8904
11,870 *4= 47,480
Total resource cost = 56,384
Profit = 23,616
Let's even try 5cpu for all other resources
15,900 * 0.56 = 8904
11,870 *5= 59,350
Total resource cost = 68,254
Profit = 11,746
First of all, before you all say that you don't have altsfor needed lots, let me say that I'm absolutely sure that you could borrow from someone. I'm absolutely sure that there are hundreds if not thousands of combat characters right now out there with all 10 lots still free and clear. So, gaining lots should not be a problem. Even cross server static lot trades would work.
Now, what we all need to realize is that we cannot, have not, and will never be able to sell anything for fair market value of the resources used to make what we make. The entire idea is to get by the best we can while still making a profit and having fun in-game. If you feel you can have fun and make a profit off selling BER 13KG/h Heavies for 80K, then more power to ya. Welcome to competition...welcome toa free market economy. People are figuring out better ways to make things every day. This is how it's done in real life too. Prices of items go down ascompanies find better and cheaper ways to gather materials and manufacture the product.
Now, I do not condone undercutting other archs because of spite or just becauseyou wanna screw with the economy. But, if you can still have fun and throw up some competition...do it...by all means. I'll see what I can do to hang with ya.
Anian
Cafa
Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:25 am
#19
Anian wrote:
Ok, once again I gotta get up on my soapbox.
[snip]
So, let's say I did mine all more own ore and bought all the other metals and chemicals needed for 2cpu.
Total ore needed 15,900 units. All other materials 11,870 units.
15,900 * .56 = 8904
11,870 * 2 = 23740
Total resource cost for a heavy mineral (minus schematics...assume we had the schematic made) = 32,644 credits.
If I sell for even as low as 80K credits, that's still a 47,000+ credit profit.
So, let's look at it more realistically. Let's say that I can still mine all the ore needed for 0.56. Ok, let's say that now I have to spend 4cpu for all other resources to pump out 13KG/h harvs.
Ok, let's do that math
15,900 * 0.56 = 8904
11,870 *4= 47,480
Total resource cost = 56,384
Profit = 23,616
Let's even try 5cpu for all other resources
15,900 * 0.56 = 8904
11,870 *5= 59,350
Total resource cost = 68,254
Profit = 11,746
First of all, before you all say that you don't have altsfor needed lots, let me say that I'm absolutely sure that you could borrow from someone. I'm absolutely sure that there are hundreds if not thousands of combat characters right now out there with all 10 lots still free and clear. So, gaining lots should not be a problem. Even cross server static lot trades would work.
Now, what we all need to realize is that we cannot, have not, and will never be able to sell anything for fair market value of the resources used to make what we make. The entire idea is to get by the best we can while still making a profit and having fun in-game. If you feel you can have fun and make a profit off selling BER 13KG/h Heavies for 80K, then more power to ya. Welcome to competition...welcome toa free market economy. People are figuring out better ways to make things every day. This is how it's done in real life too. Prices of items go down ascompanies find better and cheaper ways to gather materials and manufacture the product.
Now, I do not condone undercutting other archs because of spite or just becauseyou wanna screw with the economy. But, if you can still have fun and throw up some competition...do it...by all means. I'll see what I can do to hang with ya.
Anian
If you existed on Tempest and if you tried this I still don't think you'd be successful. Why?
1 mission on Dantooine for me = 18k MINIMUM for my fighter.
Your system is asking people to basically work for up to 2 weeks collecting the perfect resources for a BER 13 harv, and not all finishing ores spawn on all servers that often, and put the whole shebang out for a flat 11k'ish. Considering I have gotten 24 million just from my fighting character in a week, I would stop all architect production, only make harvs for myself and see just how long you last when you were unable to log into the game without people hounding you day and night. I'd also probably have a good 30 architects with me and we'd all make sure that you get all our referrals. We'd do everything possible to make sure you sold all your harvs at 80k to everyone all day long!
Why?
Because I know what it takes, the work it take, the effort it takes to produce 2,000 harvs a month. I do it regularly, and if someone was willing to put in the effort to take my place I could go have a lot more fun doing something else. But no one does, they just talk smack and burn themselves out for maybe 2 weeks max.
My prices are:
Don't do solar and wind
Don't do smalls
Medium waters and minerals BER 10 - 40k
Medium gas, floral and chems BER 10 - 50k
Heavy water BER 13 - 140k
Heavy mineral, floral, chem BER 13 - 160k
Heavy gas BER 13 - 180k
For mediums I price break 10k at 20+.
For heavies I break 10K for 5+, 20K for 10+, and 40k for 20+.
These prices have not changed once since November 1st, 2003.
I've been through 3 prices wars I considered serious. All three toons quit architect. I never once changed my prices on my original vendors, though once I went to corellia and sold nameless on vendors next to his for half price to make a point.
I have diversified the business enough where I could give away a free heavy to every customer on crates of food or med and still make a profit. The credit cost is compensation for my time and expertise, to me.
At the end of the day when you have orders for the 2000 harvs a month I push, on average, tell me you're having fun selling them for 50% less than me. Personally, I would doubt it and to me the fun equals the actual success.
Fivo Asia
Pawlin
Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:44 am
#20
Time to pull out the Generic Architect Debate:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=architect&message.id=21646
Its amazing how we never change our tune.
Dragon942
Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:28 pm
#21
Yeah, I was one of the first arhitects on my server, and even then we had people undercutting the entire proffesion. lol
Pawlin wrote:
Time to pull out the Generic Architect Debate:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=architect&message.id=21646
Its amazing how we never change our tune.
Cafa
Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:18 am
#22
Pawlin wrote:
Duck season!
Rabbit season!
Duck season!
Rabbit season!
Duck season!
Rabbit season!
Rabbit season!
Duck season!
BLAM!!...
hehehe
Fivo Asia
l33thaxx0rnam3
Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:25 am
#23
Its amazing how we never change our tune.
Well, aside from some painful early bugs, and the "Crisis of the Holocrongrinders", we're still playing on the same crappy flutophone we got issued at launch, though the expermentation tree has proven to be acharming refrain.
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