Architect Archive

Thread: Harvester e-mail when resource shift ????

kastlyn
Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:50 am
#14

It wouldn't be too hard if it e-mailed you whenever your harvester STOPPED, and then listed the reason. I don't see how it would be any more difficult to implement than the factory e-mails. Hell, it doesn't even have to tell me why exactly it stopped. Just knowing that it DID stop is enough for me.



-=Lenore=-

Goon Squad Greater Organization of Adept Trade Skill Employees
iamsiege7817
Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:58 am
#15

Well to reply to MasterGuiJan's post let me say this:


First if as a brawler or marksman the ability to even use harvesters shouldn't even be allowed i mean as architect's look at how much xp we need to grindto even make heavy harvesters and to get our masters. Allowing other classes of people to use our harvestersit's the same thing as me being able to then just buy a Kryat dragon from a creature handler and i should then be able to use it with no problems it dosn't matter that i have no xp in the handler skills i bought itso can use it. its exactly the same issue in my opinion if you dont have the skills to use it you shouldn't be able to use it and allowing non architects the ability to usemedium and heavy harvestersthen i want to be able to buy and control a kryat dragon.Now there will be those who will cry about the credits they will loose by not being able to then sell harvesters well i say this then if only architects can collect resources with heavy harvesters then the market wouldnt be flooded with resources from brawlers we can sell the resources we get from our heavy harvesters the way the architect class should be and only let other classesuse personal extractors or sample by hand.



Second the code in the game already has to check our harvesters otherwise how does it know to turn off our harvesters when the resource shifts??? all im asking is that when it does shut off our harvesters to let us know.

jol69
Sun Mar 21, 2004 4:42 am
#16

iamsiege7817 wrote:



First if as a brawler or marksman the ability to even use harvesters shouldn't even be allowed i mean as architect's look at how much xp we need to grindto even make heavy harvesters and to get our masters. Allowing other classes of people to use our harvestersit's the same thing as me being able to then just buy a Kryat dragon from a creature handler and i should then be able to use it with no problems it dosn't matter that i have no xp in the handler skills i bought itso can use it. its exactly the same issue in my opinion if you dont have the skills to use it you shouldn't be able to use it and allowing non architects the ability to usemedium and heavy harvestersthen i want to be able to buy and control a kryat dragon.Now there will be those who will cry about the credits they will loose by not being able to then sell harvesters well i say this then if only architects can collect resources with heavy harvesters then the market wouldnt be flooded with resources from brawlers we can sell the resources we get from our heavy harvesters the way the architect class should be and only let other classesuse personal extractors or sample by hand.


________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Yes, the market for harvestors should be completely destroyed! Resource Prices should skyrocket, thus inflating the price of all other goods! The economy should be ruined by experiencing Zimbabwe-esque inflation and Communist style shortages of manufactured goods!Many Non-Architect Elite Crafters will have to pick up Architect so that they can use the larger harvestors. This will mean less people with merchant skills, thus less people will have less advertised vendors. This problem, combined with the lack of goods and astronomic prices will make shopping that much more pleasant! This will lead to more stuff on the already overloaded bazaar, along with spambots outside Coronet Cantina to make up for the lack of advertising. Not only will the economy be crapped upon, but the uber lag-spatialspam can be the cherry on top. But there will bevery fewcrafters, since everyone will be too busy running around with their CL10 350k HAM Krayt Dragon wracking up millions upon millions of credits tocraft stuff. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!!


I have said "dumbestpost ever", many times on this forum. This time I really mean it. Dumbest Post ever. I hope you were drunk when you wrote that iamsiege7817.




~ Eseex Aptopack: Master Image Designer, Aspiring Carbineer~
iamsiege7817
Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:30 am
#17


Yes, the market for harvestors should be completely destroyed! Resource Prices should skyrocket, thus inflating the price of all other goods! The economy should be ruined by experiencing Zimbabwe-esque inflation and Communist style shortages of manufactured goods!Many Non-Architect Elite Crafters will have to pick up Architect so that they can use the larger harvestors. This will mean less people with merchant skills, thus less people will have less advertised vendors. This problem, combined with the lack of goods and astronomic prices will make shopping that much more pleasant! This will lead to more stuff on the already overloaded bazaar, along with spambots outside Coronet Cantina to make up for the lack of advertising. Not only will the economy be crapped upon, but the uber lag-spatialspam can be the cherry on top. But there will bevery fewcrafters, since everyone will be too busy running around with their CL10 350k HAM Krayt Dragon wracking up millions upon millions of credits tocraft stuff. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!!


I have said "dumbestpost ever", many times on this forum. This time I really mean it. Dumbest Post ever. I hope you were drunk when you wrote that iamsiege7817.



My point if you actually took the time to read my post before ranting was that right now there are fighter class people making huge money fighting and looting mobsAND at the same time making more money selling resources when they havn't used any of the 250 skill points to learn ANY crafting skillsat allthey then sell the resources at such a discounted price that its undercutting actual crafters who only make money selling good and since the fighter classesdon't really care about prices since they make a lot of money looting it's no problem for thembut as a master artisan and master architect that really dosn't leave me with to many skill points left to be a master bounty hunter and commando but there is obviously a way since you have seemed to be master of all the classes with billions of credits.


Now the whole point of being a crafter is toMAKE the items andSELL them to people who can't make their own and right now there are way way to many people selling resources and stuff who haven't spent one minute crafting or spent one single skill point learning any crafting skills (THE PRICE FOR A SWOOP BIKE IS AT 2K) and your ok with prices like that (FUSION GENERATOR 5K , HEAVY HARVESTERS 5K) for all the time and creditsI put into making a large resource item (Not to mention the time spent grinding to actually aquire those skills) and those are the selling prices ya that would SO VERY WRONG to raise the prices for quality goods. And then whats the point to staying an architect if thats the case??? If a master creature handler has a kryat dragon then drops creature handler all together does he still get the benifit of using the kryat???? NO so why do people with absolutly no skills points vested in crafting get to mine resources at the maximum levels ???


But according to you ya that's the dumbest post ever


Cigaran
Sun Mar 21, 2004 4:26 pm
#18






MasterGuiJan wrote:

There are two questions with this mechanic.


First,
Do we really want the System to send out this message? I see the message as having a negative effect on Architects and Artisans who want to be miners, as it will give everybody with a Harvester a heads up. Those Marksman and Brawlers who plop down Harvesters to make extra money and help flood the market with resources will be rewarded with having to spend less time checking up on their harvesters. I'd rather have to go make my Harvester runs every couple of days than make it easier for non-crafters to flood the market with resources.


Second,
This isn't as easy to code as the Factory situation. The factory can send out an e-mail because it is basically working on a timer. It knows what when it will finish the job as soon as you start it. It doesn't rely on any outside situations to determine when to send out a mail. That's less server load because there is less cpu power used to compare different DB values. With this it will need to query the DB on if the resource it is mining is still available. Which means the harvester will need to be loaded all the time, which eats up server power.







Umm, hate to do it but you're a little off on the second idea. Yeah, they run on a timer code for knowing when the items will be done but it still sends out an e-mail saying that its stoped because it ran out of X resource. That in no way is a timer. This wouldn't be too hard to impliment.


I do agree with you on the first point though and I'd still (even with having friends who are guilty of this helping me) support a certification system for harvesters. I think this should fall under an Elite class but at the very lest should come with Surveying. Grant Personal and Wind Generators at level 1, Solars at level 2, Medium Harvesters at level 3, Fusions at level 4 and add Heavies to Master Artisan. This would cut down on the miles and miles of stationary harvesters that have been sitting for months and would go a long way to stop the undercutting in the resource market.





Cigaran Lanarik
Mayor of Alacio Island, Naboo C
Smuggler,Smuggler's Alliance Pilot
Drop off Vendor @ -1419 -187 Naboo
StumanKadir
Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:39 pm
#19


From memory, this issue was addressed by the devs many, many months ago. It basically boiled down to two main points (with a third added later). The first two points where......


(i) Owing to the way that harvestors are handled in the databases, it's not possible for them to "register" a change in the current resource a harvestor is mining. The way I remember it, a harvestor does not exist as such, nor do its contents, until such time as you physically view the hoppers operations (though the graphics for the harvestor do as they are handled separately by the game engine). When you click operations, the database does a cross-reference check against the last known state of the harvestor (ie, when it was last viewed), the current spawn, the selected resource being mined, its quantity at those co-ordinates, the time of a spawn shift (if it has shifted), the extraction rate of the harvestor - and then calculates and writes a number against the harvestors hopper. This all happens when you click on Operations - and doesn't occur dynamically. In fact it would require a major re-write to the DB to make it happen at all.


This is also the main reason why you will never ever get an update email saying "your harvestor has run out of power/maintenance".


Now it should be noted that factories are different in that the database makes the calculation when you set the thing to start producing, and sets a timer to send the email based on the quantity in the run and the time taken to make the product. If it runs out of resources its able to email a message to that effect. When you stop and start the factory it alters the timer accordingly. It should further be noted that the factories are handled in a different database to harvestors, mainly owing to their generally static nature and lesser numbers. Hence factories havehad these facilities built in from day one.


(ii) The devs wanted the act of mining to not be a "forget me not" type of operation, and wanted the use of harvestors to be completely interactive with no remote control or feedback ever being available. From memory this design was affected heavilyby the database handling restrictions pointed out above.


The third main reason was the rise of player run sites such as www.swgcraft.com and the players who spend a lot of their time making sure that they are up to date, contain accurate stats on spawning in and out.


There is only so much laziness you can build into a game (witness macroing to level up)- and in my opinion, if you are going to be getting into Mining as a profession or as a side business, you cannot do it as a part-time operation. Managing 8 lots on one planet is well and fine, managing 8 lots across multiple planets is slightly harder again. Managing 20 or 30 or 100 lots across multiple planets is another thing altogether and requires tools such as swgcraft - and not system emails.


A lot of us use Swgcraft all the time, and I know for Valcyn we do try and keep it as up to date as we possibly can (huge kudos should go to folks like Aiya, Oroellia (Bfoley32) and RealZalter amongst others for the work they put into this site - not to mention the guys who actually run the thing). I know for a fact that the Valcyn records are accurate to within one or two hours of a resource shifting in or out.




Stuman Anikadir
Maker of stuff - on hiatis until they work out what they are doing to this game

Will be back once the Crafting Upgrade is announced
Sick of playing with kiddies, come play with the old folks, we are just as gamey as the next person

Pawlin
Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:21 pm
#20






StumanKadir wrote:


From memory, this issue was addressed by the devs many, many months ago. It basically boiled down to two main points (with a third added later). The first two points where......


(i) Owing to the way ...


In fact it would require a major re-write to the DB to make it happen at all.


...


(ii) The devs wanted the act of mining to not be a "forget me not" type of operation, and wanted the use of harvestors to be completely interactive with no remote control or feedback ever being available. ...




So I'd sum that up as:


(i) It would be hard to do.


(ii) They don't want it to work like that.


If thats the case then thats good enough for me.




Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
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** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
Cigaran
Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:27 pm
#21

In regards to StumanKadir's post:


OK, now that's a good reason with points as to why not. No more, "Well, it's being looked into", crap. Now that I understand the fact that the DB doesn't even keep track, it's a little easier to understand. Perhaps if they ever upgrade the data base to one that works better, they'll keep this in mind but I doubt at this point they'll ever mess with redoing that due to the huge amount of work it would be.



Cigaran Lanarik
Mayor of Alacio Island, Naboo C
Smuggler,Smuggler's Alliance Pilot
Drop off Vendor @ -1419 -187 Naboo
darkwaveahi
Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:30 am
#22

this is the main reason why i quit being an architect or any kind of crafter. it really sucks thinking that your harvesters are pumping the ore for 3 days and when you go to pick it up to make that huge order your just got and find out that it only has 3k ore in it because the resorces shifted.
sanfordthejunkman
Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:38 am
#23

As to the poster above with the idea of a remote control. I dont like it. It promotes to much laziness in the game then. With people doing static landswaps this would make it easy for them even more. Bad idea the part of owning one is to goto it and check it. Secondly for harvs I dont want to count on a DE to get that kind of equipment. If youare to lazy to check your harvs then you dont deserve to have one. I only like the part of being emailed when the harv shuts down for a out of resource.



sanford'the Junkman
Sanford and Son Junkyard
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Shop on Corellia 2056 -4325

Junk?... What junk!... These are all antiques.
iamsiege7817
Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:14 pm
#24

WellI guess if you dont like the e-mail idea at least if the resource shifts and the harvesters turn themselves off at the very least they can stop eating power and credits I mean they are OFF right
LadyGrey
Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:52 pm
#25



Cigaran wrote:
In regards to StumanKadir's post:
. . . Perhaps if they ever upgrade the data base to one that works better . . .





ROFLMAO. Yeah, and watch out for the flying pigs, while you're at it.



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LadyGrey

Don't let the negative AFKophobes get you down. Play the game however you want.

Is the beta testing almost over for this game?
Dagget_Hebo
Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:05 pm
#26

I wrote this somewhere else.. but ill paraphrase here.

I know the harv doesn't exist until you physically open it kina thing and then it play catch up and displays whats inside. If you look at it as a physical being that sits there and opens a holocron and writes you a message then yes it would take alot of time and stuff to recode all that.. but the simple point to it is that the system knows when the resourses are shifting.. its not in the dark about it. all it has to do is make up a pre destined email when you start it up to send a email at such and such time (shift date and time - current date and time = send date and time)that says oops the resource no longer exists. The email sits in que and if the harv is turned off by you, gets destroyed, or you choose another resourseso does the email is remove from que till you turn it back on again in which case it creates a new one based on that info.


I agree a remote control for the harvestor is a bit lazy hehe.



Dagget
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