Architect Archive
Thread: People who are jacking up our economy...
Here's HOW it would be illegal. If Standard Oil were to sell gasoline (or pick any other resource they deal in) for 50% less than anyone else, even though all other costs remain relatively equal across the board comparatively to the competition, that would be illegal.
So, in essence, if you were playing the real-life game, using your own resources (i.e. raw materials) and grossly undercutting what the accepted, current-day pricing for those materials, you would be violating the laws of most countries. It's not against the law to mine your own stuff to use, but it is to do that in order to take competition away.
Personally, since you're hiding behind your board name and don't tell people what your name and server you play on, I can't refer friends to you. Actually, if I knew, I'd send everyone under the sun to you for your products.
Marthis - Bria
Well that is the kicker Marthis.
I know I am a little brash, I know I ruffle feathers. I am more kind and gentle when talking to a customer than I am to my competition. I know what I am like on the boards and I don’t want that washing over into my character in the game.
Besides, I would rather do what I do within the confines of the game, no website, no advertising on the boards, just in-game. Part of the business challenge for me. I am not saying anything at all bad about people that have websites and advertise here, Heck I look at their websites myself and some are really good ones. Their goals are different then mine, and that is ok too.
Besides , SOE might change something in the rules and I might totally change my business and end up being the high cost vendor, I would never hear the end of it. Not that I will anyway.
The other thing is a lot of people here assume I sell for 2 cr per, I don’t, I am not a major undercutter ( although I defend those that do, they have every right ) I sell just a ways below the going rate on my server. Probably 10-15K less for a heavy, perhaps 5k less for a Med house.
My rates do fluctuate over time, and I never tell to someone that is in the process of buying from someone else. Not that I think that is illegal, it isn’t, but it is just not my style. I have certainly had the opportunity to do that, but I wont, and I never will.
The only place I really disagree with you is that I believe my busienss is rational, realistic, and sucuessful. What is unrealistic is that people think they can run a business without tough minded competition. I realise we wont agree.
And at over 400% profit too!
Dayln wrote:
The other thing is a lot of people here assume I sell for 2 cr per, I don’t, I am not a major undercutter ( although I defend those that do, they have every right ) I sell just a ways below the going rate on my server. Probably 10-15K less for a heavy, perhaps 5k less for a Med house.
GAH! So you sell for about .5cr per resource less on a heavy and about .25 cr per resource less on a medium house? Heck, I don't even consider that undercutting, period. No wonder you're having a cow. Bah, just do your business and have fun. The price variances you state are not significant enough to ruin another player's business much less the entire architect economy.
Dayln wrote:
The only place I really disagree with you is that I believe my busienss is rational, realistic, and sucuessful. What is unrealistic is that people think they can run a business without tough minded competition. I realise we wont agree.
And at over 400% profit too!
After seeing the numbers you gave as pricing examples, I have to say I don't think what you are doing is counter to a rational economy. For some reason I got the impression you were one of those folks selling at 2cr per or less. They are welcome to do it, but it does screw up the economy. What you are doing is not the same thing. Appologies for the mix-up.
I defend those that do that, they have every right, and so I catch a lot of heat. I am also prepared to compete at 2cr per when I need too, I dont need to yet.
But I do realise that those that I argue with give that impression.
Do understand that I often have sold some large things a 2.8 cr per, and small houses lower than that, because of the going rate on my server. But a lot of my stuff is higher than that.
What they are saying is true that if I just sold the resrouces I would have made more money on some sales, but that is not my entire goal.
I'm going to dodge the Dayln bullet all-together. How do you base that 1-2 cpu is unacceptable? At .5-.65 cpu per resource, and that's an estimate at a 45% spot, a 1 cpu price is still a 100% profit on investment. You're trying to tell me that just by putting down harvesters suppliers are entitled to a 600-800% profit level, but that is still too low? Hardly.
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Sohow did you get to that planet? Do you live there? Don't tell me it has all the resources you need at all times, cause they don't. I regularly shuttle between Rori and Naboo because one has shifted radioactives away and the other now has it, etc. So that's about a 3k round trip ticket. At least once a day. What about yor fusion gens you have to pay maint for to run those? Do you run a shop? Add that. Do you pay for any resources? Add those. Your faction, as that's what we are at this point, completely disregards the complete list of debits. They are all valid in what amounts to the architect's business.
I tell you what, you're **edit** lucky you have orders. On Starsider,which is the most populated server, btw, and one of the first up and full, we're dry. Do you know what happens when an architect is out of orders? You can't play the game. Period. That's it. I've gotheavy harvesters at 50% capacity with ore, steel, aluminum, copper. No point in taking it out, Ihave no use for it. I've got 500 Structural modules sitting in crates.
I am not trying to artificially create a demand-price point. It's there. It's on the bazaar. It's 3 CP/R. There's nothing to argue there. If the resources sell for 3 CP/R, the finished product which we put far more work into should at least sell for that. Anything less is insulting, and it should be to you as well. As an architect you, at some point, are low on cash.Credits are a factor.Choosing between making structures for a market thatdoesn't pay you what it's worth in materials, or selling the resources, which do you pick?
I love the architect profession,the idea of making things that will stay for a long time and change the landscape has always appealed to me. What we have now is a dead-end profession. On top of that, we have people who are trying to make it so even faster. Dwhisper, you say youdon't neccesarily agree with Dayln abouthis prices, but don't agree with me about a bottom floor. What do you charge?
The cost of resources on Starsider is 3 CP/R. It goes against good business senseto sell below that. It goes the same for whatever resources sell on your servers.
Actually, he is. He has mentioned that he'll drop to 2 CP/R when he thinks it's a good business idea. He also claims that anything over .5 CP/R is a 1,000,000% profit. And he can't make his numbers work, either. He doesn't want to get paid for shuttle rides, fusion power, bought resources, and most importantly, the time he spent working on the structure, and the critical failures that invariably follow.
RoadieRik
After seeing the numbers you gave as pricing examples, I have to say I don't think what you are doing is counter to a rational economy. For some reason I got the impression you were one of those folks selling at 2cr per or less. They are welcome to do it, but it does screw up the economy. What you are doing is not the same thing. Appologies for the mix-up.
Vyper51 wrote:
Actually, he is. He has mentioned that he'll drop to 2 CP/R when he thinks it's a good business idea. He also claims that anything over .5 CP/R is a 1,000,000% profit. And he can't make his numbers work, either. He doesn't want to get paid for shuttle rides, fusion power, bought resources, and most importantly, the time he spent working on the structure, and the critical failures that invariably follow.
RoadieRik
After seeing the numbers you gave as pricing examples, I have to say I don't think what you are doing is counter to a rational economy. For some reason I got the impression you were one of those folks selling at 2cr per or less. They are welcome to do it, but it does screw up the economy. What you are doing is not the same thing. Appologies for the mix-up.
No actually he's not. I'll give you that he intends to jump into the great swirling toilet flush that our ecomony is turning into when he feel he needs to...but right now by selling .25-.5 cr per resource lower than most he's still operating logically. His profits quotes are also strictly accounting profits (and perhaps not even accurately reflecting his true overhead). That means he may not "get" economics. He may not "get" the concept of opportunity costs. He may indeed "get" it but not care. But right now his current operation is not economy busting. When he drops below a remotely rational selling price it will be. He says he is prepared to do that, but he may find that he isn't.
Vyper51 wrote:
Dwhisper wrote:
I'm going to dodge the Dayln bullet all-together. How do you base that 1-2 cpu is unacceptable? At .5-.65 cpu per resource, and that's an estimate at a 45% spot, a 1 cpu price is still a 100% profit on investment. You're trying to tell me that just by putting down harvesters suppliers are entitled to a 600-800% profit level, but that is still too low? Hardly.
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Sohow did you get to that planet? Do you live there? Don't tell me it has all the resources you need at all times, cause they don't. I regularly shuttle between Rori and Naboo because one has shifted radioactives away and the other now has it, etc. So that's about a 3k round trip ticket. At least once a day. What about yor fusion gens you have to pay maint for to run those? Do you run a shop? Add that. Do you pay for any resources? Add those. Your faction, as that's what we are at this point, completely disregards the complete list of debits. They are all valid in what amounts to the architect's business.
I collect enough that a temporary shift away from any particular resource doesn't affect my overall production. If I can't find it, so be it. I've already said I purchase about 15% of my resources, and that affects the overall cost of production. I do run a shop, but I'm smart enough to carry NPC vendors, so that cost is truly negligible. And a Rori-Naboo round trip ticket is 1.1k, not 3k. Even when I make a jaut to Tat or Naboo from Corellia to pick something up, the cost is only 1.4k round trip. Power is the one resource I typically purchase, because it is the most reasonablly priced. 1c per unit is not unusal.
I tell you what, you're **edit** lucky you have orders. On Starsider,which is the most populated server, btw, and one of the first up and full, we're dry. Do you know what happens when an architect is out of orders? You can't play the game. Period. That's it. I've gotheavy harvesters at 50% capacity with ore, steel, aluminum, copper. No point in taking it out, Ihave no use for it. I've got 500 Structural modules sitting in crates.
I have never seen anything saying Starsider is the most populated, but I've also never read the stats for that. Eclipse isn't exactly empty.
I am not trying to artificially create a demand-price point. It's there. It's on the bazaar. It's 3 CP/R. There's nothing to argue there. If the resources sell for 3 CP/R, the finished product which we put far more work into should at least sell for that. Anything less is insulting, and it should be to you as well. As an architect you, at some point, are low on cash.Credits are a factor.Choosing between making structures for a market thatdoesn't pay you what it's worth in materials, or selling the resources, which do you pick?
I still pick structures, because that's what I do. I still make a profit on what I build, so I'm still winning. And the Demand-price point I'm talking about is for the end product, not the original good. Demand can shift a price curve of a later good, but it does not directly dictate where it goes.
I love the architect profession,the idea of making things that will stay for a long time and change the landscape has always appealed to me. What we have now is a dead-end profession. On top of that, we have people who are trying to make it so even faster. Dwhisper, you say youdon't neccesarily agree with Dayln abouthis prices, but don't agree with me about a bottom floor. What do you charge?
My prices have remained pretty consistant:
Med Mineral/Solar collectors are 10-12k. Other Meds are 20k. These are by far my best sellers.
Factories are 20-30k
Small Houses 7-8k, Med Houses 40-45k
Large Harvesters, with the exception of Fusions, are 105-115k. Fusions are 135k
Large Houses are 110k
Any slide in price is to make up for my current costs. I give discounts if people purchase from my shop. I charge more for anything I have to do 2-step factory runs for, such as the fusion, because those are a pain in my butt.
The cost of resources on Starsider is 3 CP/R. It goes against good business senseto sell below that. It goes the same for whatever resources sell on your servers.
It doesn't go against good business sense, because my costs are not a total of3 cp/r. They are lower than that. I don't sell commodities. I sell finished goods. I sell according to repeat business. And I have it. Character demands change over time as well, and I often get someone asking me to build them X large structure because they need resoruce Y now. I carry a lot of return people, and that's because my prices are fair.
Yes, our profession is stagnant, but there's still room out there to work.
I "get it" about opportunity profit lost, except that I can not know for sure that I would have had the same number of sales at the standard price. Other say that they do, but talk is cheap ( including my own ), Personally I believe I will make up for that later as a known low cost dealer when others cant find a customer with a magnifying glass. Maybe I am right, maybe not. It is hard to tell in this artificial environment.
But we will see, either way I am happy with my profit margin now, and I hope SOE does something at some point. Because there will indeed come a time when I cant make it either, and only the guy giving away houses can even give away a house. ( chuckle ) But we aren’t anywhere near that yet.