Architect Archive
Thread: And you thought the Dev's Didn't love you
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Traie
Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:20 pm
#1
How can we be nerf'd? Make certifications for houses?
ravingbantha wrote:
Why can I possibly say that? well we're not being nerfed into worthlessness like AS's and WS's are.... so w00t...
Pawlin
Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:59 pm
#2
Given our state, it is honestly hard for me to feel a lot of sympathy for WS and AS complaints right now.
Yes they are being nerfed in some respect with CU. But for right now people are being a way over dramatic and extreme about how bad things are and its a lot of doom, gloom speculation about what might happen when CUisn't even live yet. Like "worthlessness" is a bit of an exaggeration, don't ya think?? They'll live through it. Honestly it seems a lot of their complaints are very much like our current situation.
The AS correspondent quit [ edit: was fired for doing what he knew would get him fired] in a huff cause he wasn't getting communication from the DEVs. There are probably 2-3 dozen DEV posts in the AS forum in the past month alone. We haven't had that much communication in 20 months.
No offense, I understand how AS and WS and CHef and Doc etc and all the combat professions and ... well just about everyone is upset with CU and all the drastic changes. But its a lot of fear and doubt right now based on mass hysteria and speculation more than anything. I don't think CU will be perfect though. I'm sure the CU will be full of bugs and we all know its being rushed out the door cause Lucas / SOE upper management said so. And I also question why they think they need to make such gigantic changes instead of starting with a few bug fixes and tweaks.
Ok well I guess I"m rambling. I'll stop now.
Message Edited by Pawlin on 04-22-2005 03:01 PM
Zhundult
Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:44 pm
#3
ravingbantha wrote:
Why can I possibly say that? well we're not being nerfed into worthlessness like AS's and WS's are.... so w00t...
They already did that a few patches ago. 
ravingbantha
Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:54 pm
#4
Armor is not worthless but the problem is the ammount of resources are going to almost triple, and alot more specific resources are being added in. As for WS no longer will you see elite weapons crafted from elite loot drops.
Imagine if you will having a small house no going up to requiring 15k in resources, and now you need 6 different specific kinds of ore to make it... talk about a pain.
Pawlin
Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:22 pm
#5
ravingbantha wrote:
Armor is not worthless but the problem is the ammount of resources are going to almost triple, and alot more specific resources are being added in.
So armor will take more resources to make. Post-CU a suit of armor will take about as much as a medium house or a factory. Yes it will be more complex than our deeds but armor is already more complex. Bottom line here is that either people will pay for it or they wont. The market will determine the price post-CU.
As for WS no longer will you see elite weapons crafted from elite loot drops.
From what I've heard, the difference between the average weapons and the best weapons is going to be less. There just won't be any weapons that give you 100% more. IT will maybe only give you 10% more for the best compared to average. This will change the market for elite weapons. But elite weapons will still have value. People will always pay more for that extra 10%.
Imagine if you will having a small house no going up to requiring 15k in resources, and now you need 6 different specific kinds of ore to make it... talk about a pain.
/shrug
Well at least the novices would at least get 30k XP each from grinding them before they dump them on the bazaar for 20k credits.
ravingbantha
Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:45 am
#6
All the time I've been an architect I've been upset about as well as the rest of the Architect community about the lack of love from the Dev's... but I think I see their minds now... they really love us.
Why can I possibly say that? well we're not being nerfed into worthlessness like AS's and WS's are.... so w00t...
Broom
Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:59 am
#7
Pawlin wrote:
Given our state, it is honestly hard for me to feel a lot of sympathy for WS and AS complaints right now.
Yes they are being nerfed in some respect with CU. But for right now people are being a way over dramatic and extreme about how bad things are and its a lot of doom, gloom speculation about what might happen when CUisn't even live yet. Like "worthlessness" is a bit of an exaggeration, don't ya think?? They'll live through it. Honestly it seems a lot of their complaints are very much like our current situation.
The AS correspondentquit[ edit: was fired for doing what he knew would get him fired] in a huff cause he wasn't getting communication from the DEVs. There are probably 2-3 dozen DEV posts in the AS forum in the past month alone. We haven't had that much communication in 20 months.
No offense, I understand how AS and WS and CHef and Doc etc and all the combat professions and ... well just about everyone is upset with CU and all the drastic changes. But its a lot of fear and doubt right now based on mass hysteria and speculation more than anything. I don't think CU will be perfect though. I'm sure the CU will be full of bugs and we all know its being rushed out the door cause Lucas / SOE upper management said so. And I also question why they think they need to make such gigantic changes instead of starting with a few bug fixes and tweaks.
Ok well I guess I"m rambling. I'll stop now.
Message Edited by Pawlin on 04-22-2005 03:01 PM
Did you actually PLAY on testcenter? I did, extensively. And promptly cancelled my architect account.
My architect, Sita, is master artisan / master architect / TKM / merchant 0003. A good template, that allows me to craft, sell my own stuff, and be able to survive surveying.
TKM will now require an additional line of brawler (2-handed weapons). That is 14 skill points Sita does not have. So what are the choices? Giving up merchant means giving up her business. Giving up her combat skills, however, is not an option.
For all you pure crafters out there: crafters are not allowed to wear armor unless they are certified for it (elite combat only). Crafters are not allowed to equip a weapon, unless they are certified for it. The level system that is being introduced, further means that EVERYTHING that is 3 levels or more above your combat level, WILL one-hitkill you. On top of that, the larger the difference between your combat level and that of the creature/npc, the bigger the chance that creature / npc will agro on you (and thus kill you).
A novice artisan on testcenter is level 1
A Teras Kasi Master (like Sita) is level 54
A lesser dewback is level 56
A standard thug in a city like Mos Eisley is level 4-12
A womp rat is level 4
- Pure crafters will no longer be able to survey and place and check harvesters without an escort. Think this through very carefully. I spend about 5-6 hours per week on this. Settled crafters may be able to pay for an escort, but even there, it will be a huge question how long they will be able to find someonewilling to (watching grass grow is more interesting). New crafters will be shafted period.
- Animal resources like hides will get ridiculously expensive, since scout harvesting yield has been reduced, and the large-yield creatures can only be taken down by a full group effort.
As an additional comment I would like to add that my level 80 combat toon was having trouble clearing out a level 60 mob.
Linna
EnigmaBSc
Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:33 am
#8
Broom wrote:
The level system that is being introduced, further means that EVERYTHING that is 3 levels or more above your combat level, WILL one-hit kill you.
I hate the Combat "Upgrade" as much as anyone else, but please get your facts straight. A level 10 creature requires three hits to incapacitate a level 1 player. Not one hit. Three. And that's a 9 level difference, not a 3 level difference. It's also still possible to make the Aurillia run as a level 1 player. The levels system is a load of rubbish and you will be incapped frequently as a pure crafter as a couple of level 15 MOBs spawn on top of you due to lag and take you out, but let's not go spreading false facts about crafter survivability. It doesn't help our case.
EnigmaBSc
Broom
Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:46 am
#9
EnigmaBSc wrote:
Broom wrote:
The level system that is being introduced, further means that EVERYTHING that is 3 levels or more above your combat level, WILL one-hit kill you.
I hate the Combat "Upgrade" as much as anyone else, but please get your facts straight. A level 10 creature requires three hits to incapacitate a level 1 player. Not one hit. Three. And that's a 9 level difference, not a 3 level difference. It's also still possible to make the Aurillia run as a level 1 player. The levels system is a load of rubbish and you will be incapped frequently as a pure crafter as a couple of level 15 MOBs spawn on top of you due to lag and take you out, but let's not go spreading false facts about crafter survivability. It doesn't help our case.
EnigmaBSc
There has been some extensive research on the damage modifiers, and this is what came out of testing. Anything 3 levels above you or higher, is a lethal hazard. Also, please remember that not only levels have been introduced, they are also adding a 'hate system'. Any creature that has been in combat with you, will remember you and will attack you again given the opportunity.
Personal experience seems to bear these finding out. I had most of the grind for master brawler done on TC, and I can tell you I soon learned to tackle stuff one level below my supposed level. Same level was a tough (and tedious) fight, 1 level higher very difficult, 2 levels higher death, 3 levels higher very rapid death.
There is a massive discrepancy in damage done by players versus damage done by creatures. Yesterday, I talked to a jedi who was level 71 on the conversion server. He got killed by a single domestic eopie. This may be one of the'balances; they are still working out, but the admission by SOE in their messages to the community that this stuff will go LIVE with major flaws still in it, does not give me much confidence.
Basically, I've had it. They ruined my other crafting profession (doc), made crafters prisoners to the cities and made the interface suitable only for 5 year olds. As for the combat system, that's a bad joke. The only place where it seems to be balanced, is in PVP, but even there is is 'best autoattack wins'. Sita has been cancelled, my other 4 accounts will follow.
Linna
Zhundult
Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:43 am
#10
Out of curiosity, does grouping with a good combat droid help? And I've heard if you group with people higher level than you, you become that level for combat purposes (take less damage now). So could you simply group with a friend who's level 80 before heading out to survey? Lastly, how about grouping with Non-CH pets? Sure they wouldn't help you on Dath, but it might help you survive a bout with kreetles.
EnigmaBSc
Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:52 am
#11
Zhundult wrote:Out of curiosity, does grouping with a good combat droid help? And I've heard if you group with people higher level than you, you become that level for combat purposes (take less damage now). So could you simply group with a friend who's level 80 before heading out to survey? Lastly, how about grouping with Non-CH pets? Sure they wouldn't help you on Dath, but it might help you survive a bout with kreetles.
Yes to grouping with a higher level player. About a week ago I tried fighting a level 23 MOB as either a) a level 1 crafter ungrouped, or b) a level 1 crafter grouped with a level 80 player who remained sitting in the starport. For a) I was incapped in one hit (1322 damage). For b) it took twenty-one hits (62-63 damage per hit). Last I heard droids and pets do not count towards group level and so grouping with them would not help, but I have not specifically tested this.
EnigmaBSc
Zhundult
Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:11 pm
#12
Well that may be something for us to do then. There's always people hanging around starports, and friends you might be able to group with, rather than hiring a bodyguard. And it's not like we want to fight things, just survive long enough to get away. 
Pawlin
Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:59 pm
#13
Broom wrote:
Did you actually PLAY on testcenter? ...
Yes I have.
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