Architect Archive
Thread: Devs Giveth and Devs Taketh Away
Two major changes that are planned to go live will reduce our gain to 5 or 10 points, not the 50 we had hopped for.
First, resources that do not have a required stat will be treated as 0%. What does that mean?
Take a hypothetical Unit Toughness of 1000 for a steel. Currently with 100 experimentation points you could experiment a ore processing unit based on that steel to 100%. The reason you can do this, despite inert gas not having unit toughness at all is that resources that had nothing in the requires stat slot were ignored.
Not so on test. Now that lack of unit toughness for inert gas results in recieving a 0%. That means the inert gas, no matter that it might be the best every spawned, will effectively prevent you from ever getting the maximum results your points would have given you under the old system. Further you will need to get that much higher quality steel in UT to compensate.
The second huge nerf and this may or may not be directly related is that great successes no longer give 7% increases. They only give 4%. What does this mean? You will only get about 60% of the maximum result you could get pre-nerf (fix).
So back to that hypthetical 1000 UT steel and ore processing units. Instead of being able to get 100% as you would have pre-nerf you will only get 60-65%. That means that even with perfect resources, and not including the nerf we are getting from inert gas not having UT we will never be able to get a full output ore processing unit, unless of course we have one of the ultra rare one per server type 25+ skill tapes.
So I ask you, do you think this is a "Fix" as TH seems to think it is, or rather is it a nerf in fix clothing?
wow , anyone else do some testing on this?
I haven't seen anything mentioned on this subject
THat includes
- Damage on weapons
- Quality of stim packs
- BE pets
- Quality of food
- Armor
Everything....
On top if it our community director TH seems to think this is a minor change hardly worth the bother since this is "As Intended" or so he has been told. Perhaps if he had actually made a crafter....
This is gonna blindside everyone, hard, and for the most part people have no idea, or it is just us crafters complaining again.
Actually the Devs have commented on this, apprently some people were stating that there was something wrong with the experimenting. So the Devs started looking into and found two things wrong. One was the problem they were trying to get the Devs to notice which I really can't remember and the other was that when getting a sucess you were sometimes getting too many bonus points with it. Like right now if you got the same item and used the same resources and ran experimenting runs on it over and over you would notice that once in a while you would get a great sucess but only get 4 points and the rest will always get 7. The truth is that you are always suppose to get 4 points and that all the set sucess or failures levelshave an actually set number that you are suppose to recieve for them.
So the Devs notice this new hidden bug that no player had ever known because we never knew anything about it being to high and made it correct. Meaning the experimentation has been dropped greatly on everything. Man could you imagine how this will effect weapons now.
Maller Malice
Betatoxin wrote:
. That means that even with perfect resources, and not including the nerf we are getting from inert gas not having UT we will never be able to get a full output ore processing unit, unless of course we have one of the ultra rare one per server type 25+ skill tapes.
Will a skill tape even help in this situation?
When I make something with a crappy resource I am only allowed to fill in so many boxes.. no matter HOW many skillpoints I have.. I had assumed that skilltapes only helped out professions that had more than one line to maximize (ie 10 points in two lines you cannot get all with only 10 skillpoints). Right now skilltapes help architects as we only have 5 points and using really good resources we *could* get all 10 boxes filled if they appeared.. how exactly does that work ? because when i make a crappy item, even though i have 5 skillpoints it might only let me experiment on 3 boxes.. When i make a great uber item i 'could' experiment on 10 i guess but since i only have 5 it only allows me to do 5
"Will a skill tape even help in this situation?"
Yes and no, as I understand it. Crappy materials will give you even worse results now (and less potential boxes to experiment), and with the diminished returns on your experimentation you wont really be able to get out of the hole so to speak. Good quality materials will still allow you to untilize more experimentation boxes (and your extra points from tapes will add to your potential total) but with the diminished results once again from your experimentation you still will have a hard time maximizing a creation.
Whats even more worriesome is there have been reports now of actually losing (getting a negative point result) your % score with moderate successes on mediocre quality materials. That and the trifling little factor of materials that dont have the specific stat that the schematic has automatically counting it as 0%, and thus promising a poor result.
The maximum amount of boxes to experiment in one line is 10 though. If we only need to experiment on one line then 11 points only helps us a little.. every architect *can* achieve the same result even though skiltapes might make it easier..
Like with artisan... I am human i have 11 experiment points... non humans only get 10.... on a gp module i make the same quality one as a non human even though i have 1 extra point.. soince GP modules only have that one line to experiment in..
What about amazing successes? Do they only give 4% per skill point, too?
Lemme see... 520 steel and 75 inert gas for an ore mining unit. At 995 UT on the steel and a zero on the gas you'd have a max value of 86.9% on the experimentation which would round down to 86%. I think the initial combine using resources with a key stat of 869 would be in the 24% range or so. With 10 skill points at 4% each you'd only be able to get it to 64%. Even with 12 skill points from a +20 or better skill tape you'd hit 72% and still be short of the current 11kg/hr extraction threshold of 75%+.
The big question to me is how much do amazing successes add?
Betatoxin wrote:snip
First, resources that do not have a required stat will be treated as 0%. What does that mean?
Take a hypothetical Unit Toughness of 1000 for a steel. Currently with 100 experimentation points you could experiment a ore processing unit based on that steel to 100%. The reason you can do this, despite inert gas not having unit toughness at all is that resources that had nothing in the requires stat slot were ignored.
Not so on test. Now that lack of unit toughness for inert gas results in recieving a 0%. That means the inert gas, no matter that it might be the best every spawned, will effectively prevent you from ever getting the maximum results your points would have given you under the old system. Further you will need to get that much higher quality steel in UT to compensate.snip
I think this is a serious bug that should be addressed. Mineral harvesters are by far our best-selling product, and a bug that makes it impossible to build good ones is going to create a great deal of ill will. Having the schematics depend on something that can't possibly exist is gratuitously annoying.
Probably the simplest solution would be to replace 'inert gas' with 'chemical' in the ore mining units. Its not as if architects use a whole lot of inert gas anyway - it won't really change the economics. And its possible (but difficult) to find chemical with very good toughness ratings - you have to run to every planet in the galaxy looking for uber Fiberplast, but it is possible to find stuff in the high 900s.
Other changes would require more coding, e.g. fixing the schematics for ore mining units to ignore inert gas as they used to, or giving Inert Gas a toughness stat (absurd though that may be), or causing non-existent stats to default to OQ.
Arch_angel, could you make sure that the devs understand this one?
maybe i misunderstood when i read this.... but this is how i understand it.
the number of slots to fill won't change, meaning to get to 70% 7 boxes would need to be filled.... and this is affected by the resources you are using.
what changed is that to fill those 7 boxes you will now need to use all 10 experiment points... so your % results are scaled by the quality of the resources as well.
this part is not a big deal to architects as realistically we only have 1 line to fill anyway.
now, the other part is a concern... defaulting non existent stats to zero is a bad thing.... it makes experimenting with those resources a complete waste and creates an artificial limit on the max capacities.
overall, this is still not a major issue to architects... its not a change as essentially we are just getting experimenting to matter anyway.
Other professions willhave a big issue with this... especially those with multiple lines to fill in.... my suggestion is if you need weapons or armor, get it before this patch goes live as the quality will go down considerably after this patch.