Architect Archive

Thread: Shall I make an Official Response? to the Artisans?

Kdr_Kane
Wed May 19, 2004 1:12 pm
#1

I agree with giving an Architect response with what you are saying. I agree that our "official" stance should be given.


"Architects are fine with harvester certification as long as harvester decay is implemented. However, if harvester decay cannot or will not be implemented, then Architects are completely against harvester certification."


I could care less about factories myself as to whether or not certifications are required.
Mkappus
Wed May 19, 2004 1:12 pm
#2

I think they are going about it the wrong way. Any player character being able to have a harvestor is not the problem. Lot trades and one person with 230 harvestors (yes a few folks on Interpid have over 200 harvestor farms) is a problem.


My resolution would be:


1. Get rid of amin rights on harvestors. Only the owner can change what is being mined.


2. Allow hopper rights so that anyone can extract from the hopper, but not affect the operaiton of the harvestor.


By making it so that only the owner can change what is being mined, you will greatly decrease the cross server lot swaps. By making mining be controlled only by the owner of the lots you can impact the change the way it should be.


There is no way they can take away mineral harvesting from everyone at this time.





Goliath
Master Shipwright, Master Architect, Master Artisan
-=V=- Shipworks 3 Locations Theed, Coronet and
Tatooine by Krayt Graveyard 5909, 4373

3 vendors at GF6 11/11 - Shipwright, Architect, Resources
d0qtrX
Wed May 19, 2004 1:16 pm
#3

While your at it, lets cert houses...


and furniture!


"You do not have the necessary skills to sit on that!"
Kdr_Kane
Wed May 19, 2004 1:17 pm
#4


Goliath,


That's a good point. However, it doesn't address the main question. It supplies an alternative based on the assumption that it's about lot sharing.


It's not.It may be part of it, but it's not the point.Artisans want a reason to use skill points and maintain their Master Titlein the profession. It forces combat persons to rely on crafters more and drive up resource costs. They are looking for more income.


Message Edited by Kdr_Kane on 05-19-2004 01:18 PM

Stargzrrag
Wed May 19, 2004 1:36 pm
#5

Requiring Certs for harvesters is a HORRIBLE idea. This would make architect the lamest proffesion around. I make alot of harvesters and houses and furniture. Without the help of my guildmates placing harvesters for me, I would not be able to.

If my guildies were reduced to placing personal harvesters, it would REALLY hurt my business, as well as the business of chefs(tailors have to make trim for them) and docs(fireblankets),tailors and even artisans, not to mention the proffessions in SE that will require tons of resources(shipwright).


I am sure this would would ruin the fun of being a pure crafter.





~Agrin Pi'Nel~
Archimast
Wed May 19, 2004 2:00 pm
#6

I dont have a problem with a Harvester cert system with 2 prerequisites:



1. implementing Harvester decay


2. Changing the Lot system: The number of lots you get should depend on the the skill boxes youhave aquired like the way you get experimentation points, or weapons mods like speed. This wouldallow for use dependent harvesting depending on your professions





Aenaos Silverfire
Master Weaponsmith, Merchant, Master Architect, Master Artisan
Stores: 452, -5284 Coronet (Weapons) &
-2551, 2211- Freedom Forge, Naboo (Weapons, Architectural and more)
Stock List
Pawlin
Wed May 19, 2004 3:37 pm
#7

I don't think an official response from Architects is required. Not unless SOE asks you for one.



Since Architects are all Artisans we can individually join the debate ourselves if we want to. The only way to present our collective response would be to take a vote on it. But right now they are taking such a vote in the artisan forum and as artisans we can just go there and vote ourselves.


Right now I think the debate is really a moot point. There is a thread in the Artisan forum asking for Yes or No votes and currently the No votes are winning with about 80% of the vote. So the Artisans seem overwhemlingly oppposed. If the Artisans don't even support the idea then I don't see it having a snowballs chance on Tattoine.




Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
Sevardos
Wed May 19, 2004 4:08 pm
#8

I agree with Pawlin. An official response at this stage is not required.


If it moves to the point that the Devs are considering it, then it's time to fight for our position.


In my opinion, the argument has mutated to beyond reason and reality and because of that, it will be ignored.





Sevardos

The ))SUN(( Centre
636 -3836 Corellia (just outside Coronet) - Bria
Buff Packs * All Meds * Harvesters * Factories * Designer Furniture * Tools
*** ALPHA TESTER: Combat Balance ***
Dvnce
Wed May 19, 2004 4:10 pm
#9






Pawlin wrote:

I don't think an official response from Architects is required. Not unless SOE asks you for one.



Since Architects are all Artisans we can individually join the debate ourselves if we want to. The only way to present our collective response would be to take a vote on it. But right now they are taking such a vote in the artisan forum and as artisans we can just go there and vote ourselves.


Right now I think the debate is really a moot point. There is a thread in the Artisan forum asking for Yes or No votes and currently the No votes are winning with about 80% of the vote. So the Artisans seem overwhemlingly oppposed. If the Artisans don't even support the idea then I don't see it having a snowballs chance on Tattoine.







I agree.. I just wanted to be prepared.. for when (if) I was asked .. since this involves your Main source of income what do the Architects Feel about this plan....




Imaka QuHurl

Im Not Dead Yet Careful I bite

Heed the warning

ZenDragonMLS
Wed May 19, 2004 4:46 pm
#10

Dvnce, I agree with Pawlin - when and if this gets any traction, then we should look into making some formal comments.

Now that we have 3 threads in the Architect forum here, with semi-random thoughts scattered around in them, I thought I'd go over to the Artisan's forum and find *THE* place where an artisan had proposed these "harvester certs" so I could understand the basic problem that this was trying to address.

What I found were *eleven* threads on the first page alone dealing with these, including 2 started by the same 2 people who spammed our forum with this stuff. I suspect that if I looked at the other crafting professions I'd see corresponding spamage also.

I'm starting to wade through some of these, but I sadly fear that no one has distilled out the essential issue that they are trying to solve here, and shown why certs have any relationship to that issue.

Frankly, if a group can't put together a coherent statement about what problem they have and the merits of a proposed solution, I can't imagine *anyone* (much less the developers) even listening them babble.



Chilastra: Mikka R'zrPoint, Spy (Master Ranger/Master Pistoleer)
Chilastra: Zalle RazorPoint, Trader:Engineer (Master Architect, Master DE, Master Shipwright) - vendors just north of Theed at -3858 6181
Test Center: Rikka R'zrPoint, Master Artisan, Master Architect - showroom just south of Theed at -5370, 3139

Cigaran
Wed May 19, 2004 5:17 pm
#11






Pawlin wrote:

I don't think an official response from Architects is required. Not unless SOE asks you for one.



Since Architects are all Artisans we can individually join the debate ourselves if we want to. The only way to present our collective response would be to take a vote on it. But right now they are taking such a vote in the artisan forum and as artisans we can just go there and vote ourselves.


Right now I think the debate is really a moot point. There is a thread in the Artisan forum asking for Yes or No votes and currently the No votes are winning with about 80% of the vote. So the Artisans seem overwhemlingly oppposed. If the Artisans don't even support the idea then I don't see it having a snowballs chance on Tattoine.






/agree


As for the comment about it giving them some reason to have the Master box... What, the ability to make speeders isn't enough for you? The ability to make subcomponents for over half the elite crafting professions isn't good enough for you? Come on, get real.





Cigaran Lanarik
Mayor of Alacio Island, Naboo C
Smuggler,Smuggler's Alliance Pilot
Drop off Vendor @ -1419 -187 Naboo
Pawlin
Wed May 19, 2004 5:32 pm
#12






ZenDragonMLS wrote:
...I sadly fear that no one has distilled out the essential issue that they are trying to solve here, and shown why certs have any relationship to that issue.

Frankly, if a group can't put together a coherent statement about what problem they have and the merits of a proposed solution, I can't imagine *anyone* (much less the developers) even listening them babble.





Agreed.


My guess is that the problem that the proponents of harvester certs are trying to address boils down to one or more of these 3 things:

1) wanting a buff to the Artisanprofession

2) They think that they should have exclusive rights to harvesting because they are spending skill points for surveying.And that other people who don't have artisan / survey skills and therefore haven't spent the skill points should not have the right to use harvesters.

3) The survey tree is kind of useless.


Note I am not agreeing or disagreeing here but just stating what I think the problem definition might be.

Message Edited by Pawlin on 05-19-2004 05:32 PM



Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
ZenDragonMLS
Wed May 19, 2004 5:45 pm
#13

Yep - it's called "Ready, Fire, Aim"

Jumping to solutions before you define the problem typically looks like that.



Chilastra: Mikka R'zrPoint, Spy (Master Ranger/Master Pistoleer)
Chilastra: Zalle RazorPoint, Trader:Engineer (Master Architect, Master DE, Master Shipwright) - vendors just north of Theed at -3858 6181
Test Center: Rikka R'zrPoint, Master Artisan, Master Architect - showroom just south of Theed at -5370, 3139

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