Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Is adding a stock worth the extra speed cost if we get to decrease SAC (special action cost)?
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XobNoics
Mon May 02, 2005 11:23 pm
#1
Copied and pastedmy idea from another thread. Can weuse thisratio comparisonidea when deciding if we should add a stock or not? Please post any ideas that back it up or shoot it down. Thanks.
Advanced Stock
Attack Speed: 0.109
Wound 4:
Attack Cost: -13
0.109 isn't too bad since action cost is a killer now. I wonderwhencomparing ratios if
(DPS1/SAC1) > (DPS2/SAC2)
wouldbe agood assumption, where DPS1 and SAC1 are with stock and DPS2 and SAC2 are without stock. So if DPS1/SAC1 is greater than DPS2/SAC2 then we would use stocks.
Here's an example
285.39/111 = 2.57 (T21 with stock)
300.82/131 = 2.30 (T21withForm Fitted Stock, so no SAC change but increase in min-max damage and -0.5 speed)
232.25/104 = 2.23 (pre-CU T21)
In this case, we would use a stock because it gives the best DPS/SAC ratio.
RWC
Mon May 02, 2005 11:35 pm
#2
A very mathematical way of thinking about it but that sounds like a good idea 
Ill give it a try ingame and let you know what I think.
Ill give it a try ingame and let you know what I think.
XobNoics
Tue May 03, 2005 2:16 am
#3
Here goes a real example. I justcreated 2Elite Carbines, one with stock and the other without.
With a stock
Damage: 383-850
Speed: 2.13
Estimated DPS: 289.42
SAC: 118
73% Damage and 62% speed
DPS/SAC ratio: 2.45
Without a stock
Damage: 397-850
Speed: 2.12
Estimated DPS: 294.22
SAC: 131
78% Damage and 62% Speed
DPS/SAC ratio: 2.24
Difference: 2.45 - 2.24 = 0.21
Let's assume we have 500 action. #1 let's us shoot 4.2 times before we run out, while #2 let's us shoot 3.8 times before we run out. Since the speed difference is so close, it's basically negligible.
Let's assume we have 1000 action. #1 let's us shoot 8.5 times before we run out, while #2 let's us shoot 7.6 times before we run out.
With the lower action cost on the weapon, I've gained the ability to do (about)1 more specialover my opponent after 8.5 shots. Since the damage multiplier is fairly high for specials, I've outdamage him even with a lower DPS weapon.
So imagine a long drawn out battle where action regen, or action cost, will play a big role in how much damage one can cause to an opponent.
Implementor
Tue May 03, 2005 4:07 am
#4
SACs are even more important than i at first assumed, i'll be changing the way i build barrels and ABPHs for sure and start looking at stocks and scopes
john_p
Tue May 03, 2005 5:39 am
#5
Also, do different specials have different multipliers? (and different damage multipliers)
If so, the calculation is made even more complex!
Bluedoots
Tue May 03, 2005 6:34 am
#6
But does action cost matter?
On a combat toon (Master Fencer/Master Swordsman), the first day I ran out of action several times using a stun baton, a Ryyk bladeand a power hammer.
After a server reset and patchI took the same toon out (now Master Fencer/TKM) with the same stun baton and Ryyk blade and could spam specials non-stop without coming close to depleting action. Same thing with a blaster fist. I respec'd again to Master Carbineer/Master Squad Leaderand never came close to depleting action. Nobody inmy hunting groups ran out of action with all their different weapon types.
As of yesterday, action cost seems to be as important as HAM costs were pre-CU: meaningless.
Dusk
Tue May 03, 2005 7:49 am
#7
Bluedoots wrote:But does action cost matter?On a combat toon (Master Fencer/Master Swordsman), the first day I ran out of action several times using a stun baton, a Ryyk bladeand a power hammer.After a server reset and patchI took the same toon out (now Master Fencer/TKM) with the same stun baton and Ryyk blade and could spam specials non-stop without coming close to depleting action. Same thing with a blaster fist. I respec'd again to Master Carbineer/Master Squad Leaderand never came close to depleting action. Nobody inmy hunting groups ran out of action with all their different weapon types.As of yesterday, action cost seems to be as important as HAM costs were pre-CU: meaningless.
I believe the Power Hammer (and maybe just swordman specials) are very draining on Action. Also, it may help to list what the SAC on the weapons you were using. Converted weapons and weapons made with pre-CU components can achieve much lower action costs than weapons made with all post-CU components.
I wouldn't get used to these low SAC weapons, just because eventually, Weaponsmiths will be forced to make post-CU components, and the combatants are gonna be in for a surprise.
I think SAC is much more important than many think it is right now because most combatants are using either converted or pre-CU component weapons.
On the issue of a stock, I think reducing the SAC by 10 or more for only losing .01 speed is a good thing.
john_p
Tue May 03, 2005 7:56 am
#8
Yes my rifleman alt will easily drain his action during a long fight, especially if heals are required.
It got a lot worse after dumping my pre-CU T21(75 sac) and using a newly crafted Advanced Laser (~120 sac) even though the laser was say 5% higher dps, when you're down to no health and no action, and you know one more shot will kill that Krayt that's chasing you, SAC definitely matters
Vade_WS
Tue May 03, 2005 8:13 am
#9
SAC seems to be a lot more important than we initially thought. Riflemen in particular want this stat as low as possible. So for rifle components you'll want to get the SAC as low as possible and then put the extra into damage. Speed apparently isn't as important to them.
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