CUEmu - Thread Posts

Kershakk

Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:49 pm

Morning folks,

The commonality of DXR6b schematics has recently skewed how I performed these builds for customers.

I prefer to do builds for customer's personal use and hence keep the price per build pretty low when compared to other smiths, but the commonality of the schematic makes it almost a quasi-permanent schematic available to us. I'm charging 50k for a DXR6b whichis quite rock solid, 202-376/5.7 with 923 condition, +122 at ideal. As a gun treated off the rack (a gun that's a permanent schematic which is what they almost are these days), that's expensive. As a custom order priced versus other weaponsmiths, I'm quite economical. He provided yellow cubes, the base 10 ones.

Recently a customer came and loaded me with schematics and asked for DXR6b rifles. He offered me one schematic per rifle. Now in the old days, that would be not a bad deal. But given the week past I have picked up a dozen such schematics at 2k each, the inherent value of DXR6b schematic uses have gone down (and don't even get me started on the exploiting scum which are rife on my server with serialess gear).

So sure fine and dandy I build him 4 rifles for 50k each. He's provided the schematics and cubes, so from a purist perspective, that's a good sale for me.

He's then gone taken it and gotten them sliced. 33% damage sliced one of them. It's now quite a beast with a powerup. He went and posted on the trade forums about it asking for a price check. A person even replied swearing up and down that it *had* to be a krayt rifle - which was nice, but the bottom line being it's *not* a krayt rifle. But he is likely to fetch a very high price for it.

Now, it's not a question of me wanting in on the cut. It's a question of me not wishing to be a mindless cog turning common loot into a potential killer rifle that people can extort others for immense amounts of money. I'd rather that they come to me andI can continue to provide rifles for personal use at a decent price than have someone use me as a means of production and then ask for hundreds of thousands of credits.

I ask this because he's come back and has asked for 10 further DXR6bs, and asked for a further discount for bulk production. My gut tells me he's going to take the best slices and auction them off to people for a heck alot of money. He insists that this will be for his guild only, and I am on pretty good terms with several from his guild.

What would you do in my place? Bear in mind I'm not wanting a slice of this money. I know how easily this rifle can be made, using the base yellow cubes and the now DXR6b schematics that rain from the sky. I'd like to keep my price lower than the rest so people can purchase these rifles from me for personal use, but by the same token I have resources backing since launch, and 12 pts to play with (to get that extra condition on DXR6bs when yellows are used) and want to be no part of a racketeering initiative. Even if I refuse the discount, that's 500k for 10 rifles built which is a tidy sum, but he may very well sell them off at a much, much higher rate when other people could just see me directly and attain these builds for much, much cheaper.

As a side note I see exploited DXR6bs for 350k on various WS vendors, makes me hopping mad.

Cheers,

Ker'shakk

Logix

Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:24 pm

#2

Kershakk wrote:

I ask this because he's come back and has asked for 10 further DXR6bs, and asked for a further discount for bulk production. My gut tells me he's going to take the best slices and auction them off to people for a heck alot of money.

I must question what alternate plane of existence you have been inhabiting, as you somehow have been a smith for this long and have maintained a healthy, friendly, optimistic view of the world.

Anyway, this is the problem with preferring to do custom-builds. People will use you all the time if you're not careful. They will give you the lamest of lame "my orphanage is full of starving children who need weapons to hunt food with" excuses to con you out of discount custom-built weapons that they can resell. The lower you charge compared to other smiths, the more you are going to get scammed. Honestly, that's why smiths usually charge high fares for custom-builds -- not out of greed, but simply to avoid attracting those types of people.

However, I am assuming that you do not sell these weapons on the shelf -- you only custom-build. In which case, this isn't really a problem for you. Reselling those weapons isn't really detracting from your business, because you don't sell those weapons on the vendor anyway. Moreover, you charge more for the rifle than what it's actually worth off the shelf, right? So what's the difference between him going to you and having you craft weapons versus him going to another vendor and just buying 10 from the shelf? He would save more money with the latter.

So yeah, my advice: He's probably looking to profit off of these weapons, it's up to you to decide whether or not you are content with the ethics of that situation. I wouldn't cut him a discount, though. I'd give him some nonsense about supply/demand yada yada. But otherwise, this situation isn't really detracting from your business, if anything, you're making a fair profit.

BlkHwkDwn

Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:25 pm

#3

Persoanlly I would charge him the 50k and require at least 10 additional uses of the schematic for my own personal use in addition to his ten (4 total schematics). If the rifles are that good and you can make ten more your bound to get a damage slice for a few of them. Then you can sell them yourself.

Alamar Radoki
Theed, Naboo

Master Weaponsmith

Alamar Radoki
Rebel Jedi Knight
Arrakeen, Naboo
ARES
Canceled Account: Expires April 22, 2006 It was fun, it isn't anymore

LLJK_Griz

Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:47 pm

#4

I'd say do it (not at a discount), and if you see him auctioning them, stop doing business with him because he's a liar. There are many people who treat weaponsmiths as nothing more than automated crafting machines - put in materials and some token amount of credits, and get weapons to sell at massive profit.

I sell unsliced weapons for personal use - nearly all the customers know this and limit their purchases to reasonable numbers. After the crafting patch, I had 4.2 speed flamethrowers for 45k. One guy came in, bought fifteen of thetwenty on the vendor, and auctioned them all on the trade forum with starting bids of at least 200k on all of them. I banned him from my shop and never heard from him again because he went off to clear out someone else's vendor.

edit: the schematics are essentially worthless because you can put on armor, run in and out of the cave for half an hour, and fill your inventory with them. if the schematic room is camped you don't even have to kill anything.

Message Edited by LLJK_Griz on 06-06-2004 09:51 PM

POKEY THE PENGUIN SIG REMOVED BY GARVA BECAUSE "Just because you are crafty enough to get around the technicality of it being a .jpg or .gif does not mean it is not an image, it is not ascii art, it is an image" SO HERE IS MY NEW SIG.
HUGE UGLY SIG

Kershakk

Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:02 pm

#5

Logix wrote:

Kershakk wrote:

I ask this because he's come back and has asked for 10 further DXR6bs, and asked for a further discount for bulk production. My gut tells me he's going to take the best slices and auction them off to people for a heck alot of money.

I must question what alternate plane of existence you have been inhabiting, as you somehow have been a smith for this long and have maintained a healthy, friendly, optimistic view of the world.

Anyway, this is the problem with preferring to do custom-builds. People will use you all the time if you're not careful. They will give you the lamest of lame "my orphanage is full of starving children who need weapons to hunt food with" excuses to con you out of discount custom-built weapons that they can resell. The lower you charge compared to other smiths, the more you are going to get scammed. Honestly, that's why smiths usually charge high fares for custom-builds -- not out of greed, but simply to avoid attracting those types of people.

However, I am assuming that you do not sell these weapons on the shelf -- you only custom-build. In which case, this isn't really a problem for you. Reselling those weapons isn't really detracting from your business, because you don't sell those weapons on the vendor anyway. Moreover, you charge more for the rifle than what it's actually worth off the shelf, right? So what's the difference between him going to you and having you craft weapons versus him going to another vendor and just buying 10 from the shelf? He would save more money with the latter.

So yeah, my advice: He's probably looking to profit off of these weapons, it's up to you to decide whether or not you are content with the ethics of that situation. I wouldn't cut him a discount, though. I'd give him some nonsense about supply/demand yada yada. But otherwise, this situation isn't really detracting from your business, if anything, you're making a fair profit.

I'm not entirely sure how to take what I highlighted in green but - I guess playing from an Australian time zone shields me from a large chunk of what US based guys must deal with. Or you could be just making a personal attack on my state of mind in which case, well ... fine

As to the text in blue - I'm not worried about detracting business from myself and whatnot. I just worry about other people being extorted out the behind when they don't have to be. Maybe I'm worrying over much. And actually I charge a lot less custom building that off the shelf from other major 'smiths. Like I said, most DXR6bs of the same calibre as what I can trick out are 200-350k. I just wanted to be available to make easily affordable rifles for people who will actually USE them and not resell them to extort others out of money. I'm not wanting for business either so it's not like I am desperate to get all builds coming to me directly.

To re-iterate, in reference to your text in yellow. I am *not* caring about what business it's detracting or not from me for him to resale. What I *do* care about is that people out there with hard earned credits who aren't aware of how easy it is to get these things nowadays will get extorted - which will be quite easy if people out there believe this build I made that got a 33% dam slice is a krayt issued weapon - would this guy really clarify that no, it's not a krayt gun?

Perhaps you take my motives with a grain of salt, but that's just how I work. I'm upfront with the customers on construction of custom builds and absolutely always offer the cheapest alternatives when they seek saidcustom builds. I'm fine with a small but solidly loyal customer base who respect how I operate.

I'd have no problems him reselling sliced guns, that happens all the time, but only if he admitted freely where he got the gun made, is honest about what went into the weapon, and saidwhat it takes. If the guy who's buying this is aware that all it takes is a quick quest in the Geo caves, 2 of the commonest yellow cubes and a visit to me and pick up a DXR6b rifle for the 50kyet still wants to fork out 1 million for a sliced version of the very same, that's fine, he's paying for a weapon he wants with a guaranteedgood slice- he knows what he's paying.

What I do care about other people being *mislead* about how they were made so the end buyer doesn't actually know what he's paying for.

*shrug* Maybe I'm just fretting too much.

Logix

Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:59 pm

#6

Kershakk wrote:

What I do care about other people being *mislead* about how they were made so the end buyer doesn't actually know what he's paying for.

So you're not concerned that he might be lying to you..you're concerned that as a result of your business with him, he may go lie to other people?

Totally fretting too much.

The buyer has nothing to stop him from doing the math himself and determining whether or not the weapon is Krayted. It's for that same reason that we shouldn't pity those who assume the man on the street claiming to sell Rolexes for cheap isn't a con artist. Even for those who aren't capable of doing the math, a simple Google search willturn up a dozenSlice calculators to easily determine the slice percentage. Moreover, with slice tags now on the weapons themselves, frankly, you have to be trying to get scammed.

Lastly, I misread a portion of your post, I thought the DXR6bs you were pushing out were going for a much lower price on your server. In which case, charging 50k for a weaponworth 250-300k .. I'd definitely say that guy is shady, especially consideringhe had the audacity to ask for a discount. And at that price, considering the diminishing value of the schematics themselves, it might not be the first time someone's "borrowed" your skills to profit hugely.

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