Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Custom Weapon Building Price Plan A proposal
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Wargfang
Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:24 am
#1
Im not proposing any standardised anything. Just a guide for doing custom builds. Heres my current set of rules.
More than happy to do specials. They are fun and involve folks which is cool. However Im screwing myself on my charge vs the weapons value. Now with the customer providing loots, schematics, clearly im not on for a big slice of the pie...just a fair one.
Ive been looking at a price structure for doing this type of work. This assumes the punter provides all schematics and any loot-components/enhancers. Obviously if they come from your stock you charge accordingly.
Single Weapon Build Order :
- 3 times regular non-sliced price of same gun. So if Icharge 20k for an LLC a special build is 60k. Note a LLC with FFS would cost alot more than 20k
- 200k for single use special schematic (e.g. DE-10)
Multiple Weapon Build or Special Schematic Order :
- Where there are multiple weapon builds or a special schematic. Then weapons are made at twice their normal price (100k set price for specials like scythes/hacks/de-10's) plus a use of a tissue/bone/schematic for Bob. So if the customer has 6 ackley bones....he picks one for me to have.
For example a punter rocks up with 6 ackleys and wants 6 hammers. For sake of argument my normal hammer costs 10k. The deal is he gives me one bone and I charge him 5 xdouble 10k or 100k
Critical Fails are the customers bad luck but I charge nothing for my material / time losses.
What do you think ? This is a guide you can slip your own deals, mates rates, factory use tax (10k per use of a factory) etc etc.
Be Well, Bob'the Builder
jason67
Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:46 am
#2
Charge whatever you feel your time/resources are worth.
However keep this in mind. If your consumer comes to you with some very high end loot (we'll use acklay bones for example). Say he has 6x 200+damageAcklay bones and he want's to have them made into powerhammers/stun batons etc. If he gives up one bone for your use, then on our server that would be equivilent to giving you 10million just to craft the weapons with your resources but his loot. Now as a consumer that hardly seems equitable to me and I would take my business elsewhere. I think if you are talking about lower end looted components that would probably be fine like Geo cubes or spider fangs. But for very high end loot that just won't work. For tissues it would probably work provided their set is large enough to accomodate your single tissue.
And perhaps your not at the point where your not too worried about getting the high end looted stuff, in which case this would just be something to consider for the future. I am not a weaponsmith but a consumer and I often have weapons custom crafted. Typically it is a very minor charge that accomodates this when I have stuff done. I do however also often give my weaponsmith any additional looted components that I do not plan to use. I also try not to take more than a couple items to him at a single time as I understand he is busy and makes little money off of me since he is not selling the final product but only selling his services and a small amount of resources.
I just thought I would post and give you a little feedback from the other side of the fence. While I wouldn't mind providing some looted stuff to my weaponsmith when crafting custom weapons there are times in which that isn't feasable. Like high end loot or limited size sets, etc.... I however do have a very good relationship with several of the top weaponsmiths on our server, I have no problem paying them for their work and I often do in fact give them my extra looted components, but making this a requirement might not work. You should at least give them a cash alternative that would be acceptable to both parties.
Eola
Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:28 am
#3
jason67 wrote:
Charge whatever you feel your time/resources are worth.
However keep this in mind. If your consumer comes to you with some very high end loot (we'll use acklay bones for example). Say he has 6x 200+damageAcklay bones and he want's to have them made into powerhammers/stun batons etc. If he gives up one bone for your use, then on our server that would be equivilent to giving you 10million just to craft the weapons with your resources but his loot. Now as a consumer that hardly seems equitable to me and I would take my business elsewhere. I think if you are talking about lower end looted components that would probably be fine like Geo cubes or spider fangs. But for very high end loot that just won't work. For tissues it would probably work provided their set is large enough to accomodate your single tissue.
Here however you have a problem, the people who loot the acklay bones etc and instead of selling the bones want to get the bones turned into weapons and sell the weapons at a significant markup. Essentially they want to use the WS as cheap free labor.
Before I burned out on W'smithing with the rest of the class of 7/03 on Ahazi, I'd gotten so tired of them that I flat out refused to make weapons for anyone that was reselling those goods. You want the benefits of sinking all your SP's into a craft trade? Then do that.
I'm fine when it's personal use weapons, but by the end of my crafting days I was sick to death of the people that were just into resale. Yes it's your loot, but when it costs you nothing and you want to charge the same as a WS who has to pay millions for the loot? It's just ridiculously stupid.
CorenLanra
Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:29 am
#4
I do not require anyone to give me part of thier loot, however some good customers offer me an extra part now an again. Once in a while I have offered to buy a part when I saw it was very good, but never expected 1 out of 6 parts to even make a weapon. That's just the way I do business. I know they are slicing it and probably auctioning it for millions, but on my server I have more money than I can spend anyway.
Pricing for my builds is as follows
25-75k (75k being a t21) for the build, this includes +28 assembly +20 experiment and use of assembly food
additional 25k fee for using Bespin Port (because I can only make 1 custom with this every 30 mins) I use enough to cover 10 exp points then I am full and use the last 2 on condition if all greats.
Nobody has ever given me grief on my prices as I think they are more than fair, if anything I lose money from the time it takes to make these items, but i WANT my name on these items.When someone shows them off, they come to me. I then send them out to bring me in parts and the cycle continues. I just launched a new website http://www.polarhome.com/~stettin (which is listed in my sig as a real link) hoping to answer most questions on the subcomponents needed and time required.
I do have a 2-3 day turnaround on my custom builds and take all parts on my vendor to save time. I then have them email me with the custom name, and any additional parts that they want like scopes/stocks etc. It just isnt worth it for me to be around and meet customers to take the parts when a vendor can and I wont be starting it right away anyway.
Message Edited by CorenLanra on 06-23-2004 11:30 AM
d0qtrX
Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:08 am
#5
I like hand-making weapons for people.
What I don't like is how seriously borked experimentation is on weapons. It takes me maybe 6 tries at least to get an acceptable result, and even then there is at least 1 moderate thrown in because the game hates me.
Now it seems like whenever something actually goes well I want to just make a schematic, even if I only want 1 at the time.
Seawolvz25
Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:30 am
#6
my billing system is super easy, I only charge 50K for an assembly fee if I am given the components and depending on the components if they aren't given to me I go from 50-200K
keetha3
Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:30 pm
#7
If they supply everything and it requires factory time of any sort, price is 50k. If no factory required, price is 10k. And sometimes I charge more or less for the heck of it.
Bermag
Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:51 am
#8
Have been using different pricing schemes for custom orders but I am going to straighten that up since I have not been very consistent. This is what I plan to do now:
Custom order cost is: normal weapon cost + custom order charge
1) For weapon assembly from already made components. This includes Acklay batons/powerhammers or where we use standard components already made (non-krayt DRX6 Disruptor for example): +20k
2) For each hand made component. In this category falls nym enhanced vibrounits, single handler/feedmech guns (Berserker, FWG5, Scatter, E11 etc) + 10k
3) Components made in factory. For example when making weapons which require several identical components. For example weapons using several handlers, Scythe (require 2 identical geo cores). Cost +30k / factory run
1) For weapon assembly from already made components. This includes Acklay batons/powerhammers or where we use standard components already made (non-krayt DRX6 Disruptor for example): +20k
2) For each hand made component. In this category falls nym enhanced vibrounits, single handler/feedmech guns (Berserker, FWG5, Scatter, E11 etc) + 10k
3) Components made in factory. For example when making weapons which require several identical components. For example weapons using several handlers, Scythe (require 2 identical geo cores). Cost +30k / factory run
When I (we actually since we are 2 ws working together) provide loot components (tissues, cubes etc) I add 10% on top of our buying price/market price. Note: this is when it is a custom order where customer take the risk (he buys the components to be used in the gun), When I make enhanced weapon to put on sale on my vendor I use a 20% markup on loot components (= I take the risk of a failure). The same would apply if the customer don't want to take the risk of failures (only pay for the finished gun).
Let say I make a Laser carbine using some of my tissues worth 500k. Total cost for sustomer would be:
1) normal weapon cost = 12k
2) Custom order charge 20k + 30k (handlers need to made in factory; 30k charge)
3) Cost for tissues 500k x 1.1 = 550k
= 612k
If thecustomer provide his own tissues price would be 62k
Note: if I only had to make one factory run for 2 guns (user provides tissues) I would only charge 30k for both weapons but pay for assembly of both. = 2x12k + 2x20 +30k
I also have some additional cost for using patch day handlers or when making DRX6 (using 100 cpu very rare titanium)
Bermag
Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:53 am
#9
I am also thinking of adding a "crash order" charge for those who can't wait one day to get their weapons (usually I make guns the day after order/get loot components). But I have not made up my mind yet.
Dodece
Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:10 am
#10
Personally I only build custom orders for my dedicated customers. People that I know will be generous with me since I have been generous with them. I know these people will do right by me. I may not get the super acklay bone, but I am sure that if they stumble on some good gorax bone shards I will get a taste. I also do not build for resale. Which is pretty easy to pick out. When someone is makeing something to resell. I am after a rewarding relationship with mycustomers. I am not a fast food restraunt.
So I would have to say the best call is to do the makes for established customers. The people that you can count on for loot help anyway. If someone just comes into my shop looking for my to make something they have all the loots for, and know exactly how many uses the schem has and they want all the uses. Generally I know that is someone I do not want to do business with. The money they offer has no value at all. Since I know they are more then likely just going to go auction it off.
Dawgup
Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:50 am
#11
I agree making weapons for people is a nice change of pace at times, but I myself get tired of people nickle and diming me and than in turn putting the weapons which I crafted on the forums with minimum bids in the millions.
You know what its taking me nearly a year the gather the best of the best resources. So to you none smiths, you might think well it only takes you a couple minutes to craft it so why should I give up part of my loot or a couple hundred K. Well you obviously have never been into high end crafting. Its a full time job staying on top of resources and such, so its far more than the couple minutes that go into the final combine.
I believe it is us the weaponsmiths that have driven the prices of these components through the roof. I think if weaponsmiths stopped doing High end weapon combines for next to nothing than these folks with the loot would find more incentive in selling the components rather than using a weaponsmiths hard earned time and energy to haul in large profits.
I myself refuse to do it any longer, unless your going to make it worth it for me. The last guy I did a custom order for gave me a number of limited use schematics, components, etc. In return he got some sweet a$$weapons.
I think you can compare these requests to me saying " Hey Mr. Swordsman or Commando or whatever...can I give you 20k to take out this night sister elder for me and I'll loot it ". I think most of you would think that is obsurd. It is obsurd, you've spent the money on the high end armor, attachments, weapons, and so on....so why would you want to give me the benefits of your hard work??
my 2 cents
Kershakk
Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:25 pm
#12
Eola wrote:
Here however you have a problem, the people who loot the acklay bones etc and instead of selling the bones want to get the bones turned into weapons and sell the weapons at a significant markup. Essentially they want to use the WS as cheap free labor.
Before I burned out on W'smithing with the rest of the class of 7/03 on Ahazi, I'd gotten so tired of them that I flat out refused to make weapons for anyone that was reselling those goods. You want the benefits of sinking all your SP's into a craft trade? Then do that.
I'm fine when it's personal use weapons, but by the end of my crafting days I was sick to death of the people that were just into resale. Yes it's your loot, but when it costs you nothing and you want to charge the same as a WS who has to pay millions for the loot? It's just ridiculously stupid.
That's the key right there. Typically I charge what the stock standard weapon goes for on my vendor - so if someone wants Acklay baton then it's the same as my standard stunners. Add a little extra for crafting foods consumed if they want me to. Then mention any further payment is a tip and optional. Depending on the tip may make me decide how quick I am to respond to any further custom requests, naturally, but I don't shut people out.
The problem is as Eola states is peopleusing WS as a cheap cog to turn bits and pieces into something highly expensive to resell. I recognise it's "their" loot, but "their" loot is nothing without the backing of someone to craft it - not to mention the crafter's skill points invested, months and months of stockpiled resources and if applicable the ludicruous amounts of money spent on skill tapes. I'd sure like to be able to rock up to a computer manufacturing centre and dump about a pound of plastic, steel, and copper and pay 10 bucks to have them turn it into a computer for me.
I like being able to help people turn their loot into something they use; but certainly not something they'd resell. I keep an eye out generally, and if I ever see something I made for someone thinking it was for their personal use for resale, I refuse to make them any further items unless they want to pay a markup on it. It's not about greed; it's about pride. I'm not about to have people use me as a stepping stone to extort people. Had that dilemma with DXR6bs before. Seems the guy found someone else to do his builds, and he auctions off 20 sliced DXR6bs a week on the forums - which is completely doable with the ease of acquisition of components.
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