Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Is it true that harvester certs are coming?
As of now, no. But that is one of the artisans main concerns. I can understand why they would want to do this...but the resulting crash in resource gathering would be huge... Maybe not so bad a thing, but before even attempting something of that magnitude the devs would have to VERY seriously consider the bad as well as good effects of such things...
Main thing being I highly DOUBT they would ever do such...to take something away from the players is a big move and I just dont see them doing it...
Okay if its merely a case of haveing to go up surveying to use higher harvesters I am actually okay with this. I do feal for the dedicated artisans. They really do not get any major perks. Asside from being able to make a ton of lowlevel junk, and subcomponents.
Lets be real we have too much resource gathering as is. Go do a galaxy search for inorganic mineral on the bizarre, and you can find roughly 20 million units of the stuff. Then not to mention people selling it on the streets in shops. It is just too easy to reap artisan rewards with just novice. The surveying is really easy to do. Going up to survey four nets you very little. Maybe if higher level surveying allowed you to locate higher level pockets that novice artisans cannot even see then maybe that would work.
Remember they are trying to make every profession valued. They took stat migration from the players, and gave them to image designers. So do not think they wont take harvesters from regular players. At any rate I think it should be required that to even place a harvester you need to have novice artisan.
Artisans are a starter profession...they aren't supposed to get any great perks. They can do lots of things that no other starter profession can do: make vehicles, use a vendor and survey are just a few. Heck, they can make AV-21's, which can be sold for millions of credits. Can any other starter profession sell anything for millions of credits? To restrict havestor use to artisans would give too much economic power to one profession, and a starter profession at that.
As for too many resources, there is an economic fix for that (assuming there really is a resource glut, which I'm not entirely sure is true).It's called Capitalism. When supply is greater than demand, prices drop. If prices drop low enough, some people will decide that resource harvesting isn't worth the effort and they'll find something more fun/profitable to do. Eventually an equilibrium point will be reached, and we don't need any Dev interference to fix it.
I think Artisan is valued enough as it is. Artisans can harvest resources for money like anyone else, and they can survey, which gives them an advantage over non-artisans. If anything, harvestor certs would make artisan too powerful compared to not only other starter professions but even to elite crafting professions. They'd be the sole gatekeepers to the entire economy.
Thankfully I don't think the devs are going to implement this, at least not now.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
EdOWar wrote:
Artisans are a starter profession...they aren't supposed to get any great perks. They can do lots of things that no other starter profession can do: make vehicles, use a vendor and survey are just a few. Heck, they can make AV-21's, which can be sold for millions of credits. Can any other starter profession sell anything for millions of credits? To restrict havestor use to artisans would give too much economic power to one profession, and a starter profession at that.
As for too many resources, there is an economic fix for that (assuming there really is a resource glut, which I'm not entirely sure is true).It's called Capitalism. When supply is greater than demand, prices drop. If prices drop low enough, some people will decide that resource harvesting isn't worth the effort and they'll find something more fun/profitable to do. Eventually an equilibrium point will be reached, and we don't need any Dev interference to fix it.
I think Artisan is valued enough as it is. Artisans can harvest resources for money like anyone else, and they can survey, which gives them an advantage over non-artisans. If anything, harvestor certs would make artisan too powerful compared to not only other starter professions but even to elite crafting professions. They'd be the sole gatekeepers to the entire economy.
Thankfully I don't think the devs are going to implement this, at least not now.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Excellently put, well said my friend.
/cheer
PA = 9
Structure Factory = 2
Equipment Factory = 1
That leaves 88 lots. Lets say everyone has a small house (not Nabooian). (I guess some wouldn't be content with living in small houses but lets work with it in my example) That leaves 68 lots, thats 68 lots for harvesters. 68 heavy min, chem, gas, and power. If I find a good windy spot (somewhere above 60%) one windmill can power eight personal harvesters. I've found through calculation that a BER 14 fusion can power 7.84 heavies (if the PE of the ore is 500 or less at a deposit of 70%), a similar ratio. So that means 7 fusions can power 56 heavies (I think there's always some ore that's over 500 PE).
That leaves us with 5 lots left over, i'll say one for a fusion and four more heavies. Again if one takes the time to find a good deposit of 70%+ at a minimum those heavies will produce 786240 units a day at the minimum. Not too shaby, especially since at any given time there is a decent amount of junk resources that are only good for grinding and would otherwise be avoided by crafters (there are some exceptions but for the most part this is true). I think the certs should be in the survey branch (survey 3 & 4), and I'm not for completely eliminating people from using them because they don't have a cert, just impose a BER penalty.
My basic point of view is can a fencer shoot a carbine and get max damage? No, he doesn't know how to use it properly. Does a scout need to know how to harvest polysteel copper? No, hence why should he be able to harvest it as well as me. I'd like to be able to harvest hide, meat, and bone everytime I kill something so I can sell it. But can I? No. If I think of what other profs can and cannot do, I almost feel like everyone can use personals and cannot operate harvestors above that level unless certified. (There's a BER penalty; everyones at 4 except those who climb the survey tree.)
I think that the really successful people in the game are the ones who work in a team. I can't harvest enough for myself sometimes (although I'm using personals, but even with them I've gotten 100K stacks of resources (3 or 4 on a good deposit)) and sometimes I miss out on good resources, but with combined forces that isn't as big of an issue.
A previous post mentioned that certs would make artisans "the gate keeper of the economy." Spare 29 skill points to climb the survey branch and become a novice artisan then you too could be a "gate keeper." I spare 29 (sometimes less) every time I goto Dathomir so I can harvest from rancs. At 2cpu I've made over 200k from selling hide, bone, and meat.
I've already gone on too long and put more than my 2 cents in, but that is where I come from, although I'm a grinder (for 3 out of my 5 weeks online) I've been an artisan since the beginning.
-
Um one thing about starting professions. Yes all the starting professions can make great money if you use their strengths. A scout can harvest hide bone meat, and this perk is out of the range of all except scouts. A marksman can use a wide variety of good ranged weapons and thus can mission it out. Medic has the bonus of healing oneself, and the same goes for entertainer. The surveying is not a bonus. Since most of the droppers care not what they mine. They just wonder around looking for a patch of heavies to lounge about.
Somehow I think fifteen skill points is not alot ot ask for someone to make decent credits, and yes the market is increadibly bloated. Comeing about from the hologrinding system, and their are tons or resources each day getting destroyed. A master artisan gets to make vehicles low demand for those now, and unimportant subcomponents. That is it Ninety percent of higher level crafters do not have master artisan. The reason is the profession is completely useless. So they truely need a bonus.
Right now I am getting desperate tells all the time when I go to coronet. Not asking me to make something, but asking me if I want to buy something.
I'm having a tough time comming to terms with this idea myself. I'm still leaning againts the idea but there are some valid points that should be explored.
1. The suggestion has been made that Personal Harvesters remain available to all. If they did implement a cert system I wouldn't have a problem with this. This would prevent the artisan from being the sole resource gatekeeper as well.
2. Hologrinding did have a significant impact upon the value of resources.
3. Certifications would make people pay for lot swapping which is becomming a problem.
4. If we use some of the strange logic that they have applied in the past (Ie melee having kinetic as their privileged damage type) then it would make sense for them to implement the certs because as it stands now you just have to follow the harvesters and not invest any skill points into survey.
This isn't going to happen just because of the player uprising, but I'd like to see it.
Right now the economy is flooded. There's an unbelievable amount of "stuff" everywhere. Almost everything comes in crates now, and whenever something better or nearly equal to the existing "best resources" it gets mined to the points where there are likely close to1 billion of a given resource floating around on the server. I know myself that I stockpile stuff with a minimum of 200K for continuity's sakes, and thats as a WS. We WS's don't need NEARLY the amount of resources thata Chef or DE or AS do. (Since we sell final products as opposed to sets or crates of final products.)
I know a LOT of people that pay people under them to place harvestors (people with NO aritsan skill) for them. They literally have 100's of Heavies running at any given time. As a matter of fact, the person gets their waypoints for resources from Master's of a certain professions, and has NO Artisan of their own. Meaning the biggest resource providers have NO Artisan skill of their own... heh.
But it won't happen for many months if ever, so don't worry about it yet!
EdOWar wrote:
Artisans are a starter profession...they aren't supposed to get any great perks. They can do lots of things that no other starter profession can do: make vehicles, use a vendor and survey are just a few. Heck, they can make AV-21's, which can be sold for millions of credits. Can any other starter profession sell anything for millions of credits? To restrict havestor use to artisans would give too much economic power to one profession, and a starter profession at that.
As for too many resources, there is an economic fix for that (assuming there really is a resource glut, which I'm not entirely sure is true).It's called Capitalism. When supply is greater than demand, prices drop. If prices drop low enough, some people will decide that resource harvesting isn't worth the effort and they'll find something more fun/profitable to do. Eventually an equilibrium point will be reached, and we don't need any Dev interference to fix it.
I think Artisan is valued enough as it is. Artisans can harvest resources for money like anyone else, and they can survey, which gives them an advantage over non-artisans. If anything, harvestor certs would make artisan too powerful compared to not only other starter professions but even to elite crafting professions. They'd be the sole gatekeepers to the entire economy.
Thankfully I don't think the devs are going to implement this, at least not now.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Novice Scouts can sell good avian meat for millions of credits.