Weaponsmith Archive

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sammerz wrote:

Hello to all WSs,

Sorry if this is a know issue or something. If that is the case, plz just point the correct thread and I'll look into it.

Problem is, when I added a very nice PUP to my Proton Carbine (it was something around +29% dmg and +19% speed), the DPS actually became lower. When I selected the PC to see the stats, suddenly the PUP's dmg mod shown a negative one.

The PUP's stats changed after I added it into my carbine?

Any light on the matter would be nice.

Thanks in advance

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Yes that happens with the damage/speed pups. (all pups, rather, as it grants a bonus/penalty pair of stats). It gives you more damage, but increases the time between your attacks. The "decrease" in speed is what is hurting your DPS. This is nothing to worry about as DPS is overrated. Overall you'll be doing more damage, as the weapon does more damage and you have more time in between shots to regenerate your action.

Misa

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sammerz wrote:

I see. Which brings another important question....lately I've been reading a lot that DPS doesn't matter. That maximum dmg, speed and SAC are the one that really matters.

How can that be true? I mean, DPS, in my understanding, is the result of:

[(MIN_DMG + MAX_DMG)/2 * MOD_SPEED]

That is: you take a weapon's medium dmg and multiply by your modified speed mod.

So how can one say that DPS doesn't matter?

Unless I understrong wrong and mis-interpretated, DPS is pretty much the most important stat, followed close by SAC.

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Do any of your specials use that equation though? no
Minimum damage is not in your specials only max damage so DPS can be misleading as it works partially around the range between max and min.

minimum damage comes into play for pup's aparently, the bonus is based off min damage not max.

But are you 100% sure Min dmg does not goes into Specials calculations? If this is the case, a 1-1000 weapon would do the same dmg as a 999-1000 weapon when you use a special.

That's apparently whats been tested by alot of people here on the boards.
No I ahvn't tested it myself, but its been shown alot. Maybe some of the regulars can point you to the test threads.

One thing I know is that when you use a special on a weapon it always hits for the same number. there is obviously no damage range anymore.
Crit shot with weapon B always does the same amount of damage each time to the critter you're firing at the time. It will vary across mob's due to CL bonus's/minus's but once you start shooting at something it always hits for the same damage each shot.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=weaponsmith&message.id=86448

one back on page 2 even

and here where i put the question directly to be sure.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=weaponsmith&message.id=86317

someone on the pistoleer boards going over the same stuff
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pistoleer&message.id=80015&page=1&view=by_date_ascending

DPA is the way to go

Message Edited by JaWadeen on 06-18-2005 07:25 PM

Holy s**t man, this changes my conceptions completely, lol.

But wait a second, on this post:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=weaponsmith&message.id=86448

Curby claims that min dmg still matters on calculations. I quote him:

I didn't read that before, now I'm not so sure of what i'm saying.

Chr1st I wish the dev's would just give us the equations for how the damage is worked out.

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sammerz wrote:

Holy s**t man, this changes my conceptions completely, lol.

But wait a second, on this post:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=weaponsmith&message.id=86448

Curby claims that min dmg still matters on calculations. I quote him:

Not quite. Both min and max dmg matter.

Example:

CL80 vs 80 PVP, improved head hit

331-895 hammer does 775 dmg before armor reduction

384-894 hammer does 802 dmgbefore armor reduction

Average dmg of first hammer is 613

Average dmg of second hammer is 639

Difference of average dmg is 26

Difference of actual pre-armor dmg is 25

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this is true, as i have also tested it, however these are actually "lower end" weapons. when you are dealing with big time major weapons that amount of difference decreases. my tests were done with max dmg weapons and only showed a 14pt variation in damage out put. this is going to happen no matter what weapon you use because the target is stronger. the way to really increase your damage, in this case, is to increase your accuracy or reduce your SAC. the only thing min dmg really counts for in a significant way is slicing and dmg power ups. dmg power ups are a reflection of min dmg * power up % added to the min and max. the same goes for slicing.

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Siymon wrote:

DPS is not an accurate indicator of a weapon in all cases. For example. If you use +30 -.3 tissue in a Scatter pistol and you use +200 -.3 tissue in a scatter pistol the one that used the higher tissue would have a lower DPS. You would now have a bigger difference between min and max when compared to the lower tissue.

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How can using a +200 krayt tissue result in a lower DPS than when using a +30?

Misa

DPS is a simple stat on a gun with little importance, it does not take into account combat level difference for PvE, accuracy bonuses or defencive penalties. DPS is based solely on an average of what your weapon could do if nothing else mattered. Max damage and SAC are far more important, followed by speed and min damage. With the correct balance of high max damage to SAC + a well made PuP(Speed with near 0 accuracy penalty) you will have a weapon that maybe lower then some others based on DPS but a weapon that will out damage those same high DPS high SAC weapons in actual combat.