Weaponsmith Archive

I made up a chart comparing the different Carbines, Rifles and Pistols I make. It is based on Average Damage and ignores speed. It takes into account Armor Piecing, but ignores Damage Type Vulnerabilities.

http://members.shaw.ca/willpowersf/Mitagation.htm

According to this chart for 60% Mitigation:

• Pistols: SR Combat Pistol would be better than the Republic


• Rifles: Tungsten for AP0 and AP1, with the Laser Rifle for AP2 and AP3


• Carbines: Elite for AP0 and AP1, with the Laser Carbine for AP2 and AP3
  (Dxr6 and Elite were close, but the Elite is faster)

Does what I have done make sense here?

Master Riflemen and Pistoleers are maxed on speed, so I ignored it for them and still only mildly took it into account for the Carbines. Damage type vulnerabilities are too case specific for this chart.

Do NPCs or Monsters ever have mitigation, or is it just PvP?

What classes can have Ranged Mitigation?

Does anyone know the AP of the other weapons (melee, commando etc)?

My quick input :

Light Lightning canon is AP1, and does approx. 450-750 damage
Two Handed Curved Sword is AP2, dunno
Heavy Commando Weaps are AP2 (but maybe the REALLY heavy, consumables one are AP3)
Power Hammer is AP2 I think
Vibro Axe is AP1
Cleaver is AP1


Classes that have Rng.Dam. Mit. : Commando, BH, Rifleman, Carbineer, Pistoleer
Classes that have HtH.Dam. Mit. : TKA, Fencer, Swordsman, Pikeman

---

WillPower wrote:

Master Riflemen and Pistoleers are maxed on speed, so I ignored it for them and still only mildly took it into account for the Carbines. Damage type vulnerabilities are too case specific for this chart.

---

I don't know if this is telling the whole story. Sure, riflemen and pistoleers may hit the cap doing regular attacks, as you say, but they certainly will not be firing at the cap while doing most specials or when using particularly slow weapons. Also, the majority of players are not masters, so data skewed to favor masters is highly inaccurate when applied to most players.

If this was just intended for the elite combat characters, then it's fine the way it is. But i would warn you against passing this information on as is to your average customer, to whom speed likely matters very much.

Thank you for the feed back.

> Sure, riflemen and pistoleers may hit the cap doing regular attacks, as you say, but they certainly will not be firing at the cap while doing most specials or when using particularly slow weapons. <

A Master Riflemen using their slowest special is still max out with a 10.0 speed weapon. However you are right, the SR Combat Pistol is slow enough to affect even a Master Pistoleer.

---

Ideal weapon speed chart:
http://members.shaw.ca/willpowersf/IdealSpeed.htm

Mitigation Chart:
http://members.shaw.ca/willpowersf/Mitagation-dps.htm

For Carbines:

• Normally the Laser Carbine with its high Max damage and AP2 has the best DPS.


• With 60% Mitigation the Elite does a little better on AP0 and AP1, with the Laser for AP2 and AP3.

For Rifles: (please note my server doesn't have T21s yet)

• Normally the Laser Rifle with its high Max damage and AP2 has the best DPS.


• With 60% Mitigation the E11 Rifle has a better DPS.


• For a Master Riflemen maxed on speed, the Tunsken has the best Average Damage for AP0 and AP1, with the Laser for AP2 and AP3.

For Pistols:

• For Marksmen a Pre-nerf Fwg5 normally has the best DPS at AP0, with the Republic for AP1-3.


• With 60% Mitigation the Scout has the best DSP for AP0.


• The SR Combat Pistol has the best average damage at 60% mitigation, but it's so slow the Republic's better even for a Master Pistoleer.
  

I might be totally way off base here but I was tinkering around with templates and it seems possible to me, if my assumptions on certain skills (which could be wrong as I have zero melee experience) which could make a character quite tough to kill with these mitigations.

My first assumption is that say, the skill 'Unarmed Toughness' reduces damage taken while unarmed. Following that, if someone masters brawler and then takes 4 boxes in TKA in both Balancing and Precision, they get +62 unarmed toughness. I am not sure how that factors in ... is that 62% reduction in damage taken while unarmed? Or some other fluff number?

But then take the same character and go up say, rifles in marksman and then take all 4 boxes in Concealment (if I remember correctly - mitigation 3 is at box 4?).

So if everything is as it seems, would that mean an unarmed person charging at something shooting at it will reduce the damage range by 60% and then furthermore reducing this damage by another 62% due to unarmed toughness? Coupled with PvP reduction - and a half decent set of armour ....?

Have I misunderstood anything?

---

Kershakk wrote:

I might be totally way off base here but I was tinkering around with templates and it seems possible to me, if my assumptions on certain skills (which could be wrong as I have zero melee experience) which could make a character quite tough to kill with these mitigations.

My first assumption is that say, the skill 'Unarmed Toughness' reduces damage taken while unarmed. Following that, if someone masters brawler and then takes 4 boxes in TKA in both Balancing and Precision, they get +62 unarmed toughness. I am not sure how that factors in ... is that 62% reduction in damage taken while unarmed? Or some other fluff number?

But then take the same character and go up say, rifles in marksman and then take all 4 boxes in Concealment (if I remember correctly - mitigation 3 is at box 4?).

So if everything is as it seems, would that mean an unarmed person charging at something shooting at it will reduce the damage range by 60% and then furthermore reducing this damage by another 62% due to unarmed toughness? Coupled with PvP reduction - and a half decent set of armour ....?

Have I misunderstood anything?

---

Unarmed toughness only applies to melee damage, according to the mouseover text in the skill list. It's probably not a straight percentage reduction because that would be seriously overpowered.

Melee classes only have melee mitigation, ranged classes (except smuggler) only have ranged mitigation. Levels 1 and 2 are in the first and third boxes of one tree, and level 3 is at master.

---

LLJK_Griz wrote:

Unarmed toughness only applies to melee damage, according to the mouseover text in the skill list. It's probably not a straight percentage reduction because that would be seriously overpowered.

Melee classes only have melee mitigation, ranged classes (except smuggler) only have ranged mitigation. Levels 1 and 2 are in the first and third boxes of one tree, and level 3 is at master.

---

Ah right, thanks for the correction. I as only working off dim memory of looking at those skills once

Still, this mitigation business severely puts the hurt on laser based weapons I believe ... which would really, really be sad for those servers that rely on laser rifles for the riflemen as the T-21 is not available ... or has every server now seen at least an iteration?

WillPower: Very nice work. The Mitigation chart with DPS will be quite useful. I have 2 comments:

1. Currently only players have Damage Mitigation. The game reads unarmored players as being Vulnerable to everything, and the AP damage bonus is negated by Vulnerability (as noted in Logix's thread about the AP/AR system). That will affect which weapon performs best against unarmored players with Damage Mitigation, since AP weapons will only get their raw DPS against them. For example, from your chart the DH17 carbine will be the best carbine against unarmored players.

2. The DH17 Pistol is missing from the chart. Exact stats will vary from server to server, but usually the DH17 Pistol has similar speed and max damage to the Scout, but better min damage.

Again, good work.

Aside regarding unarmed toughness:

It is a straight percentage. That's why Pikemen whine so much (besides having a defensive mod that doesn't actually stop damage, we have the lowest toughness of all melee)

---

Haerb wrote:

Aside regarding unarmed toughness:

It is a straight percentage. That's why Pikemen whine so much (besides having a defensive mod that doesn't actually stop damage, we have the lowest toughness of all melee)

---

... so a TKM in 80%kinetic armoronly takes3.2 damage from a 100 damage melee attack (50% AR1 reduction, 60% reduction from mitigation, 60% reduction from toughness, 80% reduction from resists)? That seems way overpowered, a TKA/doctor could tank anything as long as they have stimpacks.

"A Master Riflemen using their slowest special is still max out with a 10.0 speed weapon"

Little correction here:

As a Master Sharpshooter/Marksman my speed modifyer is 95

The speed of a 10 speed rifle using Strafe Shot 2(3.5 speed multiplyer)our slowest special would equal

(10x3.5)x.05=1.75, not hitting the cap but .75 over the cap.

For a Master Without Master Marksman the speed modifyer is 90.

So the speed is now:

(10x3.5)x.1=3.5

uhhhh..Could somebody inform me where theses numbers come from (aa.a x a.a)x .a, i would like to find them for pistoleer,
thanks
Eveready Zues

Great feedback guys. I will get this stuff straight yet.

> The game reads unarmored players as being Vulnerable to everything, and the AP damage bonus is negated by Vulnerability

I will factor that in. Is there anyway a Player could be AP0 and still have some resistance?

> (as noted in Logix's thread about the AP/AR system).

I noticed the thread was unstickied. It's still true isn't it? Have the developers admitted they comprehend this yet and/or given any timeframe or inclination they will be correcting this bug?

> 2. The DH17 Pistol is missing from the chart. Exact stats will vary from server to server, but usually the DH17 Pistol has similar speed and max damage to the Scout, but better min damage.

I will make a D17 tonight and add it to the chart.

> Strafe Shot 2(3.5 speed multiplyer) our slowest special

Sorry I had no idea specials went to 3.5

Does anyone know of a list of speed multipliers for specials somewhere? Or at least the speed of the specials normally spammed?