Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Compilation of Weaponsmith Issues (11/26/03)
LLJK_Griz wrote:
Steel/ore/gas/alum/etc spawn on many planets, but certain other things like petro fuel and irons will only spawn in one place. If you're relying entirely on swgcraft for your resource listings, you've probably missed half a dozen top-quality materials that only spawned on backwater planets that don't get entered into swgcraft.
I Can't afford to go the the advanced planets very often, wahhhhhhh! Oh well.
I don't see that anyone has posted this yet but other itemsI would like to see on the wishlistare:
Separate experimentation lines for speed and damage or even separate min and max damage, the more customizable the weapons are the better, almost every single laser carbine I've seen has the same stats and you can tell right off the bat whether it has been sliced or not
Also the eperimentations that we have now seem broken to me; a weapon with fully experimented damage will be more than double the damage of the samenon experimented weapon; but experimentation on range or HAM cost does almost nothing to the full experimented stats of the weapon.
How about an overall balance pass of all weapons, I've been making and selling 2 handed axes for quite a high price based on its dps, I was enbarrassed to find out that this was a newbie weapon but its stats a far superior to any vibroaxe (which is higher on theswordsman tree)I've made with equivilant resources.
Stun baton? why is your dmg and armour piercing so low 
I like that idea!
Ybagi wrote:
Separate experimentation lines for speed and damage or even separate min and max damage,
TungstenTBoy wrote:
Each planet must have at least 2 steel spawns at all times? Where do you get this stuff? What is on Endor is the same as every other planet. Yes it appears it is not always reported on Endor, yet I have yet to see anything spawn on Endor(or Yavin for that matter) that hasn't also spawned on a starter planet.
Steel/ore/gas/alum/etc spawn on many planets, but certain other things like petro fuel and irons will only spawn in one place. If you're relying entirely on swgcraft for your resource listings, you've probably missed half a dozen top-quality materials that only spawned on backwater planets that don't get entered into swgcraft.
Okay - probably low down on the order of importance but a HUGE thorn in my side since the I could make my first weapons and I'm sure it has been mentioned here before:
The ability to move objects up and down within a house so as to create a display wall (like the indoor Merchant Trainers) and without having to run your shop out of a large house to use the steps!
I believe this effects Weaponsmith's more than any other profession because you can't make your shop look like a weapons shop without displaying your wares on the walls (I'm not putting my display guns on the floor :smileytongue
.
I know I could alleviate this by simply buying a large house to use as a shop - however I can't blow that many lots on a large house - I (as well as many of us) need them forharvs and gens.
Separate experimentation lines for speed and damage or even separate min and max damage,
I like that idea!
Are you serious ? I agree the thought of being able to customize weapon sounds good but dont u realize that if speed and dmg experimentation are separated this will result in allweapons getting worse stats cause u wont have enough points to raise them both, and if we'd have enough then it would be the same as it is currently
to have this work it would require a complete change in experimentation, if they'd just announce "dmg and speed now have their own experimentation line" that would be the biggest nerf ever
I mean this thread is here to solve issues right, so please dont try to add new ones thanks
swgcraft is a guide and nothing more. But it DOES give an accurate picture of what limitations on resources are.
To expand on the "It sucks to be a novice" thing, I think it should be noted WHY the novice sucks. It's not just because they have crappy equipment to make. It's also that what equipment they CAN make cannot be made at decent quality. They get a double whammy: Your schematics are useless, and if you can make it, you can't make it WELL. Plus,a master will ALWAYS be able to craft it better than you AND they can make more stuff than you.
The solution, to me, is to get rid of ONE of the two whammies. Either let every weaponsmith craft every schematic (which is REALLY stupid), or get rid of the differences in assembly/experimentation from level to level. Here's how it'd work.
Instead of getting one experimentation point and one assembly point at novice, then having to grind up the Tech tree to get more points and finally hit master to get that last bit, make experimentation and assembly constant across levels.
The gating feature then, the incentive to become a master, would not be to make simple weapons better than a novice, but to be able to make more weapons and more complex weapons. You'd still have plenty of room for variation of quality in the form of how successful your experimentation or assembly was, plus the resources that were used. But at least novices wouldn't be getting the shaft from two different directions.
Plus, this way, masters wouldn't be hurt that badly. HOWEVER, they should ALSO make ALL of our schematics more useful (tangle pistol, striker pistol, etc.) and perform the other changes FIRST(IE: plumbum iron fix, etc.) before implementing these changes. You need to have a system in place that allows people to actually sell useful items at higher levels.
As a replacement for the techniques tree, you could include a new tree that allows people to create experimental alloys by fusing different metal types together. Plumbum iron fused with copper would have lower conductivity than copper, but higher conductivity than plumbum iron. It'd be not as tough a metal, but it'd be much more conductive. Anyway, stuff like that could be added in place of the tech tree. Or, they could give us >gasp< more weapons!
You know, Solo, I still remember your first post here.
You were asking if it were to be viable to be a successful Weaponsmith without Mastering the profession, as I believe you wanted to be a casual smith while retaining many other skills on the side. I said no. You debated and debated with me about it and absolutely refused to believe Novice Weaponsmith was *that* difficult.
And here we are today, with you being our community's most prolific supporter of the enhancement of Novice Weaponsmith. :>
But, this is my counter-argument to your suggestion:
If you rebalance all weapons to go in line with your ideas, you will either end up with one of two solutions: a.) Weapons are all identical or b.) There are still weapons more favorable than others.
Solution A obviously, has its obvious disadvantages. We want our weapons to be diverse and ideally, we'd want our schematic placements to be in line with certification placements.
Solution B also has its disadvantages. It will put Novice Weaponsmiths back into the same position. They will sell few guns, while other players seek out more highly prized, favorable guns crafted by Masters. I have been a Weaponsmith for a very long time and I still sell around 1mil worth of stock daily. I have a very strong, large customer-base, many of whom I have had since Launch. That said, I still hardly sell these freakin' Scout Blasters.
You give Novices the ability to sell Master-level quality Scout Blasters and it will do nothing for the profession. If I can't sell Scouts quickly, a Novice with virtually no customer base, no word of mouth, no advertising, no reputation, is not going to be able to sell a Scout Blaster. It's an alright gun, but it's a starter gun. That's just too tiny of a customer-base to draw out of, amongst the heavy Master Weaponsmith population already out. I honestly feel that a Novice Weaponsmith would make more money selling crates of WUKs than he could selling Master-level Scouts.
As it stands, most new Masters cannot make a dime. They face the same problems stated above (without lack of experimentation, of course): No customer-base, no word of mouth, no reputation. And most of the time, no resources, either.
Only thing that'll fix this is a heavy cert rebalance and a bunch of new elite profession weaponry. But then, it's only a matter of time before the market becomes flooded again, so it's just a temporary solution. The Novice problem is universal and even many Masters share their woes. I didn't add anymore commentary to it than that because I didn't have to, it's common knowledge that it's just .. broken.
I'm all ears for a working, less-than-flawed solution to suggest, but I just don't think this one would do much for the profession on its own.
Ace, I completely agree that the armor piercing of rifles and carbines is a key factor that is often overlooked. I've always felt that a pistoleer is fairly worthless in some of the more difficult areas of the game wherea rifleman can shine.
That being said though, I think Elite carbines might be able to use an AP boost up to medium at least. In its current state there's little if any reason to use an elite over a laser in most situations due to the fact that the laser beats it in AP. I've used both guns myself in my stint as a carbineer, and have always been much more pleased with the laser in general. Also as far as damage types go...
Pistols: energy, kinetic, acid, heat, stun [ 3 light AP, 0 medium, 0 heavy ]
Rifles: energy, cold, stun [ 2 light AP, 2 medium, 1 heavy ]
(and although I feel the SG82 is definitely a situational gun, I count the jawa ion among the best guns in the game for both PvE and PvP. Sure it may not be your everyday gun, but there are a helluva lot of situations to use it in)
Carbines: energy, heat, acid [ 3 light AP, 1 medium, 0 heavy ]
I think from these numbers that it is clear rifles definitely do have the AP advantage, however carbines have just one gun with medium AP (which isnt even their elite gun), and 2 less damage types then pistols. And just like pistols, of their 3 light AP weapons, 2 are energy and one is acid. And of course their medium AP weapon is again energy. So that leaves the carbineer with a 0 AP heat gun, a light AP acid gun, and then a bunch of energy guns. In other words at the moment, the carbineer really only has the laser as an advantage.
I know that class is more than its weapons, specials and such must be taken into account, but I dont think it would throw off game balance to give carbines a touch of help (medium AP and/or cold damage on the elite?), and maybe make the tusken rifle kinetic too while we're at it.
The Bowcaster solution:
Hear me out on this one, because I feel this is a pretty viable solution to the issue. Make two separate bowcaster schematics. The current one that uses the specific minerals (doonium, quadranium, etc) should be the schematic for the advanced bowcaster, a weapon with the same approximate stats it has now, but with medium AP. Make this schematic available to wookies somehwhere in the WS tree, and make the cert available to wookies only once they become novice riflemen.
Start wookies off with the certification for a regular bowcaster, the stats on the ones that are made now will do fine. Nerf the schematic like commando weapons were nerfed for this one....boil it down to ferrous and non-ferrous and generic metal.
This way we dont have novice marksmen wookies running around with destructive medium AP guns, but we're also not robbing the young wookie of his ability to craft his own decent bowcaster. The low level wookies are happy, the high level wookies are happy. We all have a big furry hug.
And finally...I'm gonna need to see a screenshot of the 500 cond polonium Ace. We have yet tosee 200on it on gorath in over about 10 spawns now (and I've been doing full planet sweeps since the first few weeks, I may have missed one, but it's not liklely) Also in all my time reading the forums I have yet to see anyone claim their server has polonium over 500 cond, nor have I seen stats on a polonium-based gun that would seem in line with a high cond polonium (well, assuming it had good OQ as well).
Again though, having said all that, I generally think it's fine that these resources have low cond and such. imagine a T21 with 600/950 polonium iron. The only gun I have a gripe with really is the elite, and that runs deeper than a resource issue. Biggest problem I see is the advanced blaster rifle barrel's high reliance on rhodium as compared to the pistol barrel. Since rhodium makes up a higher percentage of the rifle barrel, and rhodium as we all know, always has low cond (yet to crack 100 on Gorath in quite a few spawns), the rifle barrel will always be fairly mediocre. At least with the pistol barrel you are sacrificing .1 speed for something like6/6 min/max dmg and better range, with the rifle it's alot more like 2/2 min/max.This is just a small gripe though, and not a condemnation of the whole resource system. Except for a few veryminor tweaks here and there, resources are fine as they are.
Thoax Dromallet
Master Weaponsmith
"Guns don't kill people: People with Thoaxcorp Guns kill people"
Based on how the two professions currently stand [Carbine and Rifle], they're pretty much equal in the AP department. Of course, the Rifle may have one or two more weapons with AP, but they go heavily underutilized. The E11 Rifle, for example, well, it goes without saying.
However, keeping the paper designs for these professions in mind, it makes a bit more sense for Carbines to be slightly less powerful in the AP department. Pistols are fast and light, Carbines are moderate and medium, Rifles are slow and heavy. Obviously, Carbines should without a doubt, reign supreme over Pistols as far as AP goes. But over Rifles? I'm not so sure.
I think you may be downplaying the DXR6 a bit, though. They're like what, 120-180 3.6ish? Falls a few raw DPS shorter than the Laser, but it is AP1 and acid-based damage.
As far as Elites go, well, you saw what I posted in the original thread. This is just a problem child gun and it needs a good boost.
Bowcaster: I'm not a Wookiee, I have no idea of the base stats of these weapons nor have I ever been able to find anyone selling Bowcasters. I'm assuming stats are roughly that of a DLT20. But your proposal sounds interesting and does have merit.
Lastly, the Polonium was sub-200 OQ, otherwise I would have stockpiled like crazy (and I know Polonium can reach high OQ, as I use a 983 OQ one for my Scopes which has 194 Con). Combined, I've never seen a Polonium over ~1200, but that doesn't mean I don't think it's not feasible. I'll think it's not feasible when I've seen as many Polonium spawns as I have Doonium. There's a Phrik currently on my server that beats out any other metal we've ever had as far as Con/OQ goes, so resources continually surprise me. But I don't think a nice Polonium would fix the Elite, either. Nor do I think fixing Rhodium on barrels would fix the Elite. Any advances to Barrels are going to go straight to Laser Carbines. So you add +10 damage to Elites with new barrels, you're going to be adding +10 to Laser Carbines as well. We'll have to give it more of an edge than just the barrel fix, unfortunately.
Woo! I have been begging for this exact change for ages!
Aristarchus52 wrote:
About Spraysticks: According to the latest TC patch notes, the melee damage modifiers have been replaced by a to-hit bonus for melee attacks against people holding ranged weapons.
Right I agree Ace, carbines should definitely fall in between rifles and pistols on the AP scale. I think that one more medium AP weapon wouldn't overpower the carbine class though.However, if we're going to keep the laser as the only medium AP weapon, then i think we just need to make sure the elite gets improved...an issue we definitely both agree upon. I certainly agree no carbine should have heavy AP though, that is right out.
As far as the E11 goes...with good plumbum (we just had some with 931 OQ spawn) it does have its uses. I know rifleman who love it for the relatively low HAm costs and decent speed coupled with the medium AP. the ability to spam specials with this gun more than most other rifles actually does make it a viable choice in some situations.
The best base DXR6 on Gorath right now I think is like 110-176, 3.8 or so. The laser is 41-272, 3.5 (both very similar HAMs)I agree the acid damage is nice, but I'm speaking from experience here, it's still pretty inferior to the laser. Sure I don't like getting those low-end shots with my laser carb, but the high damage ones more than make up for it, as does the medium AP.
I'm not trying to say carbines are grossly underbalanced, I just think they need a little tweak upwards. And I think we both agree that the tweak should be an improvemnet to the elite.
The advanced barrel issue is seperate from the elite, I just thought i'd toss that in there while I was on a roll hehe, didn't mean to mix them together. My suggestion for those is not to improve the rhodium, but to lower the percentage of rhodium that is used in the rifle barrel to make it more in line with the pistol barrel.
Lastly on the polonium...I'll take your word for it, but I think you have to admit something like that is a "freak" spawn. I am as big a resource nerd as they come on my server and if you look at the general ranges forcond on plumbum, polonium, andrhodium most specifically you'd have to admit that 500+ cond on any fo these metals is a very very rare thing (and even when it does have this great cond once in a blue moon, there's a good chance for low OQ as you've experienced yourself). As I said,I dont consider this to be a problem anway, just pointing out that certain resources do seem to experience a cap of some sort. Perhaps there's a small random roll for them to have these "freak" stats.
As far as the Bowcasters I'll ask Ker'shakk to post his stats. They are actually a bit high for what a novice marksman should be able to use probably, but their lack of AP casues them to not be viable for higher level encounters. Even light AP would make it a useful gun, but as it is, I'd compare it more to a somewhat suped up DLT20.
Thoax Dromallet